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08-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 8058
Reply to: 8055
This might change your attitude.
Paul,

If to look ONLY the technical side of sound quality then you have all those illusions about the “FM not yet supplanting the good CDs, let alone good LPs” just because your presume lack of expose to better FM. I am not trying to convince anyone but I think I do know something about “better sound” and I assume that I do experience with OK-performing CD and LP setups. Well, I might only assure you that if you even made in Boston and ask me to play something to you then it will be very hard for you to head any CD or LP after you hear my FM recording. It is truly very different experience audio-wise. I would not say that CD/LP is “androids created by chopped body pieces put together by mad scientist” but… you would refuse to hear my CD/LP… whatever it would worth… Well, get to yourself good 88/24 playback that can play 64bit file and I might send you some “dally FM quality”. It might change your attitude.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,104
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 22
Post ID: 8062
Reply to: 8058
File sharing (again...)
I'm confused (again), Romy.  Does this mean that the share-able/shared files are of the quality you are touting?  Because this is The Dream, isn't it: e-share-able recorded material that actually sounds good?  And are we perhaps even talking about the "broadcast version" of CDs and LP via FM being improved?  If so, then, WOW!!!

FWIW, I would be only too happy to find an alternative to the effing CDs and LPs, believe me.  Not to bitch, but thanks to "gridlock" I got maybe 20 minutes of Music today from a 2 1/2 hour "session".  I don't know about you, but this fatigues and even depresses me.  So who cares what's "on the LP" if you can only get it off there one time out of ten?  Unfortunately, as I have already complained, local programming sucks and my present location is poor for the LA and/or Santa Barbara stations (and also for local stations, for that matter).

If only durning the summer, I would LOVE to have FM!

Best regards,
Paul S
08-22-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 23
Post ID: 8095
Reply to: 8053
The glory of the Rohde & Schwarz receiver.

A guy I spoke a few days back told me that if he lived in Boston and had the quality of FM programming as good as we have in my city then he would have peruse the best FM receivers possible to get. I was laughing replying that it was exactly what I am doing…

Anyhow, the end of the season in Tanglewood is customary Beethoven paradise and this last week of the summer season is no exception. The program is truly killing:

Today: Mass in C and the Symphony 5. The BSO lead by Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos, the Tanglewood Festival Chorus lead by John Oliver.

Tomorrow:  Christoph von Dohnanyi lead BSO with Sympnonies Nos. 2 & 3 ("Eroica")

And on Sunday – the closing of the season is the habitual Symphony No. 9, with soloists & Tanglewood Festival Chorus and Christoph von Dohnanyi conducts.

Tonight and tomorrow concerts are broadcasted by my local “bad station” with not friendly reception. Now I am listening the Mass in C and the sound if very good. (Watch this phenomenal Tanglewood Festival Chorus!!!). Do you know what I did two hours before the broadcast? I was trying to get the WCRB station with minimal amount of noise and interference. It looks like a simple task – but it is not so simple if you know…

Noise-vise reception was leading by Yamaha t-85 in ultra narrow mode and insultingly precise antenna positioning. It has no good sound though all-around with 130K of bandwidth. REL was OK but it needed 24dB atenuation, max out own gain. Still it had some FM noise that I was not able to defeat.  It is not to mention that REL at preset stage has own internal noise that make it imposable to record. The Sansui was ok but with it’s best and at 28dB attenuation it still had to high residual noise. Then the Rohde & Schwarz entered the fight. This receiver is ridicules. It want all signal in the line, I was forced to disconnect all line spiders from my antenna feed to drive the Schwarz with max signal. The Schwarz then with its internal brain decided how to process the signal and I was not able to beat it. If with any other tuner I have and this specific station the turning antenna for 2-3 degree absolutely killed the signal then the Schwarz allows turning antenna for 20-30 degree with no impact to noise – amazing! I locked the Schwarz as it will do 2 day recording and thanks God it can handle the WCRB.

BTW, the running now performance of Mass in C is absolutely amassing. I am in the middle of my big Cohiba…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-16-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 8296
Reply to: 8095
The season is up and the kitty is ready.

I have to admit that engaging in second R&S receiver I was perusing just a better unit – I was getting it from the hands of Munich R&S technical – fully calibrated and tested. I always met to keep juts one unit but I kind of grow on them and  ended up with actual unit both of them one is use with R&S MSDS decoder and another with MSDS2 decoder.

I still have a preference to one of the EU-6201 unit (sound and mechanic-wise) and I still would like to take the other to an alignment technician (anybody that you know would like to work with Rohde & Schwarz EU-6201?). But I kind of turned to like together, and some I have two decoders I decided to keep them for a while. I use one of the 6201 and Sansui to record and another 6201 is not even connected to A/D and used juts for listening…

Yesterday the winter season started and the WHRB went live. On 22 the BSO season will be opening and so on… So, I kind of ready for new music coming in…. All that I can tell that my late recording were better than even few months back, I keep learning how to get it better and better…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 9997
Reply to: 7369
The super Schwarz?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Well, after the year of playing with it  I did what I always wanted.  Without having a technician who would be able to work on the Schwarz I combined my two of Rohde & Schwarz EU-6201 into one. One of them had very good front and with very precise working oscillator. Another had very well perfuming intermittent section and generally better sounding. I put them into one unit and mane a few other minor modifications in audio section and power supplies. The combined unit has phenomenal sensitively, very good stability to hold the station, fantastic selectivity and insane immunity against overload.  But the best part of it that it also sounds very seriously.

I do feel at this point that it has a very small edge over Sansui, not mach but has. The EU-6201 bas a very minor advance in bass, yes, believe me or not but the advance over TU-X1. It is also a bit different. I would call the TU-X1’s bass more sophisticated and soft but EU-6201’s bass more brutal and violent – not necessary a bad thing. Also the EU-6201 is a very slightly more forward in mid bass… Otherwise they are insultingly similar…

There is one more unique quality in the new combined Schwarz - the one that did not expected and never seen before. The TU-X1 and Schwarz subjectively have identical dynamics but with station running compressed signal somehow the EU-6201  feels like is has more dynamic. It feels like it almost decompresses the signal. Of course it is not the case but do I care if the crappy WCRB-like stations sound with Schwarz less compressed?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 12506
Reply to: 7369
Bye-bye Rohde & Schwarz
fiogf49gjkf0d
One of my Rohde & Schwarz EU-6201 tuners with a matching Rohde & Schwarz MSDC MPX decoder is going away tomorrow. I was contemplating for a while I decided to let one of my Schwarz sets to do. I left with one EU-6201/MSDC2 decoder and Sansui TU-1X that dally keep competing for 99.5MHz reception. One day Schwarz get better reception another day Sansui – the weather condition do affect the things. I am kind of sad to let one of my Schwarzs to go, particularly the MSDC decoder – it is too comfortable thing with fenominal indication. I do not let it got for sake of money but I just feel that I have too many of those devises and that I never will be using the second Schwarz set, So, why to store those things? Some additional sadness I feel in the fact that the guy who buy my Schwarz is not truly FM connoisseur and I feel that he is not truly understand what kind FM setup he is getting. I would like to see this set go in the hands of a seasoned FM person who would fully appreciate the thighs. There were so many efforts spent on this decoder and this tuner that it would be nice if the new owner would be able to realize the result. Well, you know how it works…

Anyhow, bye-bye Rohde & Schwarz, it was very good for me but how much land a man need? Here is the last shot.....

Rohde & Schwarz_Last_Shot.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
sm3xcs
Sweden
Posts 1
Joined on 11-14-2010

Post #: 27
Post ID: 14940
Reply to: 7369
Rohde & Schwarz EU6201 Schematics
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello, anyone have or know where to find a full schematics / Service manual (PDF) to Rohde & Schwarz EU6201 FM tuner?
I have only found a blockdiagram, but no schematics.

Regards
Thomas
11-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 14941
Reply to: 14940
Google them...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thomas, there are a few companies in Germany that sell it for 60 Euros or so. I do not remember the company name that I used but they are googalable, you shall be able to find it.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zako
Posts 85
Joined on 05-25-2008

Post #: 29
Post ID: 15524
Reply to: 14941
TUNER Roahde & Schwarts
fiogf49gjkf0d
There is a "NEW" Roahde & Schwarz Tuner on EBAY today,,,$3600,,sourced out of Isreal,,  cant make out the mod number,,,Should i bid????
02-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 15526
Reply to: 15524
Rohde & Schwarz vs. Rohde & Schwarz
fiogf49gjkf0d

 zako wrote:
There is a "NEW" Roahde & Schwarz Tuner on EBAY today,,,$3600,,sourced out of Isreal,,  cant make out the mod number,,,Should i bid????

Hm, this is the type a question that I was not asked for a while!

Zako, I do not know this receiver. I know the Rohde & Schwarz EU6201, the one that is up for sale is EU200, I have no idea what it is. From the picture it looks like has a different front end. I do not know what purpose was for this unit and what topology it used. This EU200 is from end 70s, Rohde & Schwarz made super cool communication receivers in end 80s. I was approached with one it was bout $5K and it was 4U large unit with enormous amount of functionality and tuning options. I decided to pass is as I had no use for it. This EU200 unit might be a good tuner or it might be just a good communication recessive.  If it has a fantastic selectively by narrowing IM bandwidth then you will hard get from it a good quality sound. Whatever it is you would need to invest some efforts to it to modify it out stage as it is not up to the demands of the best tuners. You would also need a good multiplex decoder.  Still I would not go for the EU200 until I know certainly what it is and what topology it uses. The only this that I can assure you that whatever topology it has it will be very well made. Call to Rohde & Schwarz, find some senior person who work in there for a while and talk to him/her.

I think it all boil doe how interesting FM in your region.  If you have a worthy FM station then you might try to experiment with Schwarz. Be advised that no one will be able to alight it in this country.  Well, aligned EU6201, modified, and driving by own preamp a properly voiced multiplex decoder might sound as good as classic tuners theoretically can. I do not know anything about EU200 and to make assumptions only by the company name I would not recommend.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,104
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 15527
Reply to: 15524
Programming???
fiogf49gjkf0d
Zako, the first order of business is programming; ie, what sort of music could you enjoy, best case?  In my own situation, the quality of the tuner is the least of my problems!

I am getting to the point where I wonder if computer-sourced program might be a better gambit for me than FM.

Best regards,
Paul S
02-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zako
Posts 85
Joined on 05-25-2008

Post #: 32
Post ID: 15531
Reply to: 15527
R&S fm tuner
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am sandwitch,d between two cities,,,and use a antenna roter,,to captuer most of my classicle needs,,,But i,m on the fringe,,and a good tower antenna keeps me connected,,,So i,ll probably not bite on this one...   I,ll probably waite for some thing closer..Like a used Accuphase,,,   thank you for your advice....     Maron
08-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 16832
Reply to: 7369
Where to get custom crystal oscillators.
fiogf49gjkf0d
With the coming of the new director to WCRB (Benjamin Raw) the station, without any big hooplas and announcements of “perestroika”, kind of surreptitiously, is turning out to be a truly fine classical station. There are ton of things that they do nowadays that is very welcoming in my view, which makes the FM junkies like me immensely happy. So, with great advancement of WCRB programming and since a lot of my listening is FM programs I took some measured to beef up my FM capacity. A new antenna, a new way to tune my directional antenna to the stations to name a few, the last one that I would like to try is to switch my Rohde & Schwarz to work not from own local  oscillator to quartz oscillator.

Sonically, the TU-1X with modified multiplex and modified Schwarz with own modified multiplex are not distinguishable. The reception is different matter. In my old location what different in reception was very minor (with TU-1X manually attenuated) but my new location has much more complex reception situation. The WCRB I can get as clean as the best CD with noise at the level of the station transmitters capacity. The WHRB is more complicated and I still work on it. In any case it looks like with all tricks I use the TU-1X does better job with WHRB but Schwarz truly works great with WCRB. Here is where Schwarz truly shine as I use a complex defective reception from the edge of a hill and in this case the quality of the Schwarz front and IR filtration become prominent.  

Anyhow, since the Schwarz will be permanently set to get WCRB I am considering converting it to crystal oscillator. No matter how good the Schwarz internal oscillators is but crystal shall be 10 times better and thanks God the smart Germans made the provision to let the receiver to use a selection ether own local oscillator or a quartz oscillator. So, the station is 99.5MHz and the Schwarz runs 21.4MHz IM frequency. So, I need 120.9MHz serial quartz oscillator. Does anybody know a company where can I order custom frequency quartz oscillator and have no minimum order?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 16833
Reply to: 16832
Found the crystals, my tail is trembling…
fiogf49gjkf0d
Have ordered my custom crystal oscillators from International Crystal Manufacturing Company

http://www.icmfg.com/

It is a bit pricy, $25 per oscillator but not end of the world. The lead time 2 week and I am very excited to see how it will end up. As now the Schwarz gets WCRB very good and the common practice do not trouble troubles until troubles trouble you. Still, my associates are convincing me that crystal oscillator feeding the Schwarz’s mixer shall be much better. I am sure that quartz oscillator is the best generator with lover theoretically possible noise but still I wools like to hear if this theoretical “better” will manifest itself in the final Schwarz’s sonic output. Schwarz permits to use dual oscillators, crystal and own local electronic and to flip between then by the use of a switch in the front panel. The Schwarz also allow to measure the output of the crystal oscillator and to tune the after oscillator filtration (!) to the frequency of the local oscillator.  I hope the WCRB outputs exactly the 99.5MHz, BTW I will need to measure precision of the WCRB caring frequency.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 16881
Reply to: 16833
The Schwarz runs from crystal oscillator!
fiogf49gjkf0d
It was a bit tricky to make it works. The Schwarz original crystal is imposable to get and the new one that I got from ICMC had different internal capacitance, so I was forced to shut them with additional inductance to let the oscillators to fire up in the Schwarz circuit.  As the result I have the tuner frequency reference running from pure, super stable, ultra low noise oscillator. The Schwarz has internal capacity to measure the output of crystal oscillator and to fine-tune the tuner’s front end to the same frequency reference. That is very good but the greatest thing is that by flipping a switch on the front panel I can defeat the quartz oscillator with fix frequency and to engage the local electronic oscillator that follows the returnable front end. This is the ultimate thing that might be done in a Superheterodyne tuner.

Now, leaving all technical nuts and bolts aside the main question is: how the Schwarz driven from crystal oscillator sound different compare to the Schwarz driven from the local oscillator? This is $64000 question, isn’t it? Well, the jury is still out about it. The difference is near negligible. I would say that the difference does exist but it is so insultingly small that it in a way defeats all my efforts I spent. I have short fragments that recorded with both oscillators, I can post it and you will be a judge.  This test is one more indication of how superbly Rohde & Schwarz is built that a crystal oscillator can’t overperform the unit local electronic oscillators. Dima explained to me that the quality of the Schwarz’s post oscillator filtration and the all silver retuning capacitors is so high in Schwarz that he is not surprised with my results. Well, the question I ask then is why Rohde & Schwarz is made the provision for crystal oscillator then. The stability is not truly a factor as the stability of Schwarz tuning with local oscillator is phenomenal. In addition then Schwarz is tuned to a station and reaches own cruse temperature it has a provision to mechanically lock all tunable caps and then the frequency control is dead stable. So, it has to be a reason why they did it.

I will keep to fine tune the .23-.27uH cap that I shunt my crystal oscillator and perhaps I will be able to get something out of it. The crystal oscillator shall demonstrate less noise no matter what, why I do not hear it. Well, partially is because the noise level that I am getting is not restricted by my receiver by the noise level of WCRB transmitters. Still, I would like to explore this subject to the very end.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 2 of 2 (35 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Sansui TU-X1 Broadcast monitor...  Replace all audio coupling......  Off Air Audio Forum     46  301542  06-20-2007
  »  New  Where are our good Tuners?..  Ok, it did clear the things up....  Off Air Audio Forum     43  262940  03-31-2008
  »  New  The FM Stereo and Multiplex MPX decoders..  The new life of Rohde & Schwarz decoder....  Off Air Audio Forum     12  103143  05-02-2008
  »  New  Tuners and digital noise from DAW, A/D and D/A..  Beter installation + more ferrete...  Off Air Audio Forum     10  73069  07-20-2008
  »  New  A tube tuner? REL Precedent 646C..  REL Precedent Report...  Off Air Audio Forum     24  172853  07-28-2008
  »  New  Align your FM tuners!..  The Munich technician?...  Off Air Audio Forum     7  59775  03-27-2006
  »  New  Forward in the past with old radios...  Kitchen radio as a source of immense pleasure....  Off Air Audio Forum     18  97770  01-21-2011
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