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  »  New  VTL TL-7.5 Reference: His name was Marc Mickelson he wa..  VTL TL-7.5 Reference: His name was Marc Mickelson he wa...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  20844  03-16-2005
  »  New   Wilsons, EMM, Ozawa, Saint-Saens and.....  Re: Correction: EMM Lab DAC-transport....  Audio Discussions  Forum     4  42327  10-02-2005
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1237720  12-06-2006
  »  New  The loudspeakers for a powerful SET..  Mission Accomplished?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     48  278887  04-11-2008
  »  New  Macondo vs. the “industry sponsored speakers”..  Correction : "Man in the street"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  35473  05-11-2008
  »  New  Wilson Audio and the Moore's law..  Sneak peak of modesty...  Audio News Forum     19  51264  04-26-2009
  »  New  A new CES 2010 loudspeaker?..  Good idea, indeed......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  115147  01-13-2010
  »  New  A primer on high-end marketing: Wilson XLF..  About Wilson XLF by Robert Harley...  Audio News Forum     8  39158  12-17-2011
  »  New  Lamm ML2.2 and Mark the BS teller...  Keeping beaching about Spectral…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  44739  01-30-2012
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran
Posts 144
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 21
Post ID: 11371
Reply to: 11369
Wilson wat puppy
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think correct positioning the watt puppy and maxx model in room is not easy and each time i listened to them i sensed a bloated sound, I guessed bloated sound refer to acoustics. i know these model drivers are not fast but i guessed in a good room and good position we hear a non bloated sound with these speakers.

when i close watt puppy 7 to rear wall, sound loose dynamic and flow with increase in tonal resolution and a sense of peace, when i move speaker against the rear wall i get better dynamic, more airy and open sound but with sense of bloated sound that cause stressing me in long term.

I believe in a good room we can find a very good position for watt puppy but i know access to good result is hard and maybe impossible in general rooms.
I tried to position gryphon sealed box atlantis , it gives better result in shorter time and i sensed i can find a very good position in shorter time.

It seems that ported speakers are so sensitive to acoustics and their placement is harder and sealed box speakers can give better result in our rooms.

wilson speakers should be compared with other speakers on market not with a absolute reference. i agree our ideals maybe far from market products.
I agree wilson speakers have some problems and i know they are expensive in their performance class but in this crap market they have a over mid position in my idea. i never heard many speakers but in iran between 20 speaker brands they were over mid class.
duette, sophia, watt puppy 7 driver quality were near crap but maxx and watt puppy 8 tweeter and mid drivers were good and alexandria drivers were faster with more resolution.
alexandria in lightness (transient speed) and resolution was in another league but maxx and wat puppy 8 driver quality was acceptable.

I have this sense that they sound good for rock'n roll but i do not think they just are suitable for rock'n roll.

market is full of crap products and better components like ESP Concert Grand SI Speaker are in corner and have a small market.

Is there any idea about ESP Speakers? http://www.esploudspeakersna.com/

I never listened to these speakers but it seems they have a good sound in comparison with other market products.


I Love My Mom
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 22
Post ID: 11372
Reply to: 11369
No Wilson bashing...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,

no, I am not one of those who bash Wilson. I respect his work, his business and his products. I listened to some of his models a few times, but this here is about reviewers...

I am a little bit frustrated. I am a customer who want to go ahead, when I read those "reviews" and I have the chance later to listen to it, most is simply untrue. It is like a paid positive advertisement. And I know no magazine which is different, probably Stereophile is an exception now.

I read TAS since 1990 and at that time it was really good. I remember a review about Magneplanar, 3 Reviewers had 3 different Models (I think, 1.6/2.7/3.5) and wrote about it.
It was a normal report with their positive sides AND their negatives (Poweramps...). I was impressed, because their description was at the point (I had one of these models at that time). Anyway, the Magneplanar sales person (Wendell??) wrote a very angry letter which was published ("...1000's of happy customers all over the world and none wrote that....")..
Harry Pearson made a response, which was in the way:"..it was a report from my reviewers trust but I will check that personally."
3 issues later HP wrote his comment about Magneplanar report from his Reviewers, it was VERY short: "I proved it and all they wrote is right"
Bang. Finish.
This impressed me. He was not the slave from industry and was writing FOR the customer. And he was very respected in this Business.
We all know, that has changed dramatically. No I read stories from Valin & Co. which are far away from being serious.
And all do that.
1997 I made a decision: I stopped "believing".
I knew at that time when I would follow their "recommendations" I can burn my money right away.
The frustrating experience: I was right.
I saved a lot of money and got better units but I was lonely.
the other "Audiophiles" around me still read those recommendations, bought them and were frustrated. Some married and they had luck, their wives killed that nonsense very fast (..."that's the 4th CD Player in 3 years and you always tell me, that one is perfect and everytime you kill 70% of the money...I want a new kitchen...")

Now we have the Internet
not bad, but the Morons discovered it for publishing their ultimate brain free nonsense too. When something is written in a Mag I think, you have to be a little bit serious, only a little bit, but now we have the "support" from "Customers" who get something cheaper and for that they support the product whenever possible. And sometimes very aggressively, a few Germans are very advanced in that. They don't need Dealer network, they do it via Internet. Simple story, super high final price, long waiting list but when you really want it, there is a chance to get it for a nice price....yes, "Audiophiles" among themselves have to "help" each other.
A sick business. I feel sorry for those who try to do it serious...I don't know, but I think, they will loose..



Kind Regards
Stitch
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 11376
Reply to: 11369
Wilson myths or thruths?
fiogf49gjkf0d
maybe what is mentioned as being some myths is closer to what at least used to be pretty close to the actual truth?

Wilson speakers are pricy, expensive, un-affordable, take your pick. So maybe some of the commentators about Wilsons never had one in their listening room, and if they had one in their room, maybe only the smaller ones like I did - a Watt Puppy 5.x?

So? What about my experience about that lot?
ALL three points mentioned most certainly were THE CASE in my auditioning, nothing about myth at all!
I could not STAND that sound in my listening environment, I found it offensive to my ears - upsetting, unsettling. BUT, I can only comment on those small ones that Romy in any case considers beyond comment.
My point is: couldn't it just be the case, that a lot of 'myths' are stemming from reviewing the smaller speakers and then are projected up to the bigger ones?
It pretty much is what I think is the case about it, EVEN though a generalized sound characteristic might well be the case - but in a much more 'refined' fashion.

So, that's my take of where those "myths" came from. Applied to the smaller wILSON SPEAKERS e.g. Watt Puppy they where actually the bloody truth!

Cheers,
Axel
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 11380
Reply to: 11372
Missing the point
fiogf49gjkf0d
Stitch,

When I hear people defend audio reviewing in present form (as most of the industry establishment do) or offend it (as I do) I think they both miss the point. I was truly laughing reading the comments after the Jacob Heilbrunn’s post where all imaginary industry players come together to defend or deny the audio gifts, free loans  and those soft of things. Take the same David Wilson, create a circumstance where he might not be hurt, ask him about the industry and about the very same people who made his business to kiss David’s ass during his diarrhea.  The truth is that EACH AND SINGLE audio manufacture has inherent deep abhorrence  and revulsion of those blood-sucking marketing leaches, they just can’t escape of that dirt as the marketing people are  actually are plugged in the distribution process and in reality make living for manufactures. Those marketing sleazeballs take it all very seriously but they cannot imagine how much we, the sane audio peoples do not care if the Mike Framer bought, sold and got his Wilsons as a gift.

People try to find justifications for reviewers’ preference in the reviewers’ personal agendas, corruption, listening ignorance, cultural limitations of just in the personal idiocy. That all might be the cases but it ALSO misses the point. The missed point is that those good or bad reviewers with this beast or worst intentions, in most of the cases still do not say anything important or meaningful about audio products.  Let take the same Mike Framer with his long-lasting infatuation with MAXX.  As many times the Framer opened his mouth about his speakers I always ask myself – are the MAXXes so bad that Framer not able to say anything intelligent about them? There is absolutely nothing in all BS that he expressed about his MAXX that make his expressions to be attributable to MAXX. This is an example where criticism does not rise to the level of a creation, which is a typical– we know much more talented composers then talented musical critics… Anyhow, I understand why David keeps Framer around on a leash. Framer sells to public the notion that Small Wilsons (including 6, 7 and MAXX) has some attributers of quality the Big Wilsons have (Grand Slam and Alexandria). It is not that big Wilsons are flawless but they are an accomplishment vs. the Small Wilsons are juts cashing out of the accomplishment. Here is where the whorish cheerleaders like Framer and alike do their job. In realty, in the coordinate system of audio thinking, all those Framer-Mickelson-level of people are no more than those guys who stay on street with signs informing that there are available parking spots on a given lot right next to the stadium where Red Socks is playing….

So, what is the Missing Point in all of it? The Missing Point is that the audio equipment in reality is NEVER GOT TRULY REVIEWED by official industry and by public opinion, even if it has many published reviewers and many sold customers. The more complex audio component is the more true capacity of the component eludes to be exposed in the typical stupid audio reviews that we are accustomed. With the example of Wilsons, I do not read all of the reviews and I do not read them attentively, but from what I am familiar I do not feel that anything ever was said sensibly in “reviews” about the sound of Big Wilsons.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 294
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 11386
Reply to: 11376
"Myths" -- the wrong word?
fiogf49gjkf0d
The right word would have been "truisms". Obvious statements. "Common knowledge." But by no means always true. Often, not!

clark
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 26
Post ID: 11403
Reply to: 11386
The Wilson effect
fiogf49gjkf0d
I twice had the opportunity to listen to a Wilson: The Puppy 8 combined with a Lamm power amp and the latest Maxx with Soulution electronics. Both times my impression was that there is some characteristic shining or radiance probably induced by the breakup of carbon-doped paper cones in combination with the anorganic-particle-doped acrylate enclosures and the slightly metallic signature of the titanium tweeters. I couldn´t find anything special apart from that, i.e. no particular strengths or weaknesses. In fact the sonic signature was so different that listening to the Maxx directly after listening to an ESL I didn´t have the feeling of listening to just an other dynamic speaker again, and I can imagine that for some bathing-in-sound audiophiles this is a reason for placing Wilsons over all other speakers in the world. But I would NEVER call them references due to the very subjective nature of this effect.
Did anyone else here have the same sensation?
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 27
Post ID: 11404
Reply to: 11403
RE: Wilson 'sound effect'
fiogf49gjkf0d
el`Ol,
it is quite fascinating how well you depicted (listening to WP 8!) what I heard, listening to some 5.x
I.E. "some characteristic shining or radiance probably induced by the breakup of carbon-doped paper cones in combination with the anorganic-particle-doped acrylate enclosures and the slightly metallic signature of the titanium tweeters"

Having just gone over another older posts, and all about various standing waves = breakup when at its worst, on resonating materials (cones, enclosures, etc.)

Quoting Bud: "... As an example, if you are walking on the sidewalk in town, feeling safe and secure, obeying the rules, and you hear an unknown or surprising sound behind you, what do you do? You cannot avoid having your attention brought to this unknown, as you say, "Alien" sound. Your correlator and automatic threat assessment systems want this sound catalogued and it's source defined, NOW. Same is true when listening to art being redisplayed in your room as "music" I do not like having this threat sensor going off while I am listening to Horenstein conduct the L. S. O. through Mahler's third symphony in my living room

What he is describing is what I once posted --- Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?, see:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240748267&openusid&zzShadorne&4&5

I ran into a full broad-side of what Romy might call 'Audio Moronix TM'. It was like talking to people that only seem to listen to the clock radios...
I eventually asked if they could not hear these sounds because they may be "VC hardened"? I.E. used to the enemy's crackling branches in the bush setting of threat sensors. --- The reaction: "No idea and Not amused...!" :-(

Back to the 'Wilson effect', it is what Bud referres to as "Alien" sounds, and the small Wilsons have that in plenty supply.
It puts me on edge, I also do NOT like having my 'threat sensors going off while listening to Mahler's 3rd..."

However, a younger Audio friend of mine (has changed somewhat now, getting older?...) used to like this AV-like 'Wilson over the top effect'.
The small Wilsons are a bit like Bungee jumping, and not my idea when listing to ANY type of music. I got them out of my listening room real fast.

Axel
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 11406
Reply to: 11403
Good word found – the radiance
fiogf49gjkf0d
 el`Ol wrote:
…. there is some characteristic shining or radiance…

Yes and no. Radiance probably is a very good word to describe Wilsons. (Search the site for Focal Utopia TN51) The key in here is not letting the artificial radiance to stay on your way and to USE radiance constructively. To do it Wilson’s radiance need to be VERY properly and VERY sensibly balanced with its lower MF and midbass region. It is very difficult and it is not always even possible. Here is where all small Wilsons in my view need to discarded. Only big Wilsons: Garand Slam and Alexandria had this opportunity, but again - it requires a lot of whorl with very complicate positioning of them and it will not work in all rooms. The Maxx I also attribute to the small Wilsons as I think the lower range of them underdeveloped to respect to the upper-range radiance they demonstrate. It looks like lat years Wilsons is trying to beef up of the reputation and capacity of the Maxx line and it is possible that the latest Maxx 3 is more able then Maxx and Maxx 2 with which I am familiar. It is hard to say. The fucking idiots who own Maxx and write about them were absolutely ecstatic about the first Maxx, as well as the Maxx 2 as they are ecstatic about the Maxx 3. No one of them has a stand about absolute sound’s needs and they just milk their stupid brains in respect to the new products promotion.

The Wilson’s exuberant radiance is undoubtedly a selling aspect for Wilson –people like the immoderate gratification but still I feel that in the properly setup big Wilsons the “wrong radiance” shall not be there. The big Wilson have many very specials qualities that in a way unique in loudspeakers. Put in this way: we have many near and over $100K loudspeakers that not even remotely close to near and over $100K Wilsons.  I still feel that over $100K loudspeakers shall offer a different topological opportunity.  The $100K or lower it will be the price of  Macondo-like installation with a full- blown pair 40Hz midbass hors and a pair of 90 sq feet ULF sections, that will eat Alexandra on breakfast. Still, the big Wilsons are a good compact, encapsulated and comfortable package. Sure it has problems and I well describe them in the beginning of the thread.  But, again, I talk about product not about sound – I do not care about products….

 el`Ol wrote:
But I would NEVER call them references due to ….
El’Ol, you forget that the definition of references is possible ONLY in context of your expectations. If I performed a service for you and you graded my service as something that “did not meet expectations” then the first question would be is not how good my service was but what your expectations were all about.  The majorities of audio Morons do not exchange and do not correlate expectations and requirements for sound, they just pollute space with mindless, disconnected and incoherent commentaries about sounds that hardly ever related to anything. Anyhow, if you pay attention to where I lead my disappointment with Big Wilsons then you might observe that it is my feeling that despise the numerous reviews and commentaries the Big Wilsons had, still NO ONE said about Big Wilsons anything true worthy what Big Wilsons migh deserve.  Perhaps when David Wilsons retire he might write a book about his views about the bid Wilsons and about the Wilsons that he did not build because his admirerers are too primitive idiots who satisfied with anything inferior. I do not know David Wilson personally and I do not know how he thinks. I spoke with him 14 years back but it was very non-indicative.  He might be all enslaved with his industry delusions, sort of Mike Framer but who has actually tangible capacity to do the thing instead of serving humanity as a republican radio talk-show host.  Other then this I do not think that anything about Big Wilson’s design or sound will be able to became an understood awareness for wide audio public.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 12691
Reply to: 1509
Conversations with Dave Wilson
fiogf49gjkf0d
In 3 parts. A very good infomercial.

http://www.wilsonaudio.com/company_html/conversations_part1.html

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 18779
Reply to: 1509
Auditioning the New Wilson Audio Alexia Loudspeaker
fiogf49gjkf0d
Frank Berryman posted an article at his site about his auditioning of Alexia Loudspeaker.

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/auditioning-the-new-wilson-audio-alexia-loudspeaker

I do not how about you but after reading the article I feel that it said very little.  Behisn all of that elegant writing there is a screaming emptiness where Frank looks like imitated all reviewers that came before him. He expressed absolutely nothing personal or important for that matter and he even emulate the common stupidity that his predecessors usually do. I do not know why he did it – perhaps he want to get from Wilson a deal for his own new speaker (85% of reviews out there are written for this purpose). Anyhow, I consider this Frank Berryman’s article is useful to read, not because it gives any impression about Frank or Wilson but becose the review is an perfect demonstration of what people think/do in audio when they have no identity of what they do.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,130
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 18780
Reply to: 18779
Cogito Ergo Sum
fiogf49gjkf0d
I really got my fill of Wilson speakers while auditioning amplifiers earlier this year, and also tired of hearing the self-satisfied "explanations" and enumerations of all the "reasons" why they sound so great, when, in fact, they sound pretty much like you'd suppose if you paid attention to the approach/design/marketing of the products. Frankly, I've yet to hear them them make Music I want to listen to, not even enough to want to take them home to play with.  I realize I've not said anything about their sound, either, but I really just don't care about them.

Interesting juggling act, however, smugness and self-justification.

Paul S
01-28-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,130
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 32
Post ID: 18951
Reply to: 18780
New Alexandria XLF; Inching Toward the Tonal Matrix
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking at the drivers, and the range of adjustments, it appears that Wilson have done some things that make more sense than usual, at least to me.  The MTM drivers can easily be set for "time alignment", which should help to cope with Wilson's "notorious phase issues".  LF drivers are larger-than-usual, 13" and even a 15", and I hand it to Wilson here for moving in the right direction, giving the cone/air interface a bigger role, instead of laying it all on the amps with the usual small, "fast", "long-throw" garbage.  They went with 7" for MF, which is also larger than many "high end" mfgs use these days but, oddly, they chose to run a 1" silk dome tweeter down to 1k Hz, to tie it into the 7".  This means that the true WR driver in this stack is the 1" silk dome tweeter.  Hmmm...  There is another, rear-firing, 1" silk dome for HF only.  I have no problem with off-axis HF like this; in fact, I applaud it.

Setting aside the proper range for its use, the "retro" step back to silk domes is a good idea, compared to where they have been.  I have no idea why they stuck with the Be and Ti for so long.  Back to range, 1k Hz is way too low for a 1" dome, in terms of tone, and also in terms of "dynamic balance".  I am guessing that Wilson actually run the 7" up a good deal further than 1k Hz, as they should, although Fremer says Wilson says they wanted to "avoid beaming" from the 7".  Since Fremer says Wilson say the 7" is "WR", I suppose this means they also run it down too low.  Ideally, I would not assign lower MF solely - and certainly not upper bass - to a 7"; but I suppose this is nothing in "high end" audio.  As for the "beaming", there are other ways to deal with it; but perhaps these are as yet undiscovered by Wilson, or perhaps other ways were dismissed because they compromise the "Wilson Look".

All in all, it appears that Wilson is inching toward something that may eventually get past the usual, self-imposed, high-end audio problems.  With still-larger paper drivers and more reasonable X/Os, they might get there yet.

I meant to add a link to Fremer's introduction via Stereophile, but I failed to copy it properly before posting.



Paul S
04-28-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 20738
Reply to: 1509
Listening some Wilsons this week.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Last week I spent in NYC and while Amy was hanging along some kind of malignancy conference of her and had a couple hours free around Grand Center Station and I decided to drop by at  Innovative Audio at 58 street.  I know that they Wilson and Lamm dealers, so it might be interesting to hear ML3 with large Wilson.

Sine I am not in business of buying anything I did not make any reservation and when I drop by in their office I did not ask to make any changes and to play everything as it was - I do not want to waste the people time trying to sell me something.

The first room was Wilson Alexandria XLF I think. It was the room kind of dedicated to the XLF, their flagman room. The front end was all Spectral, the application was VTL’s Siegfried Reference, plus some kind of fat cables. I presume it was Transparent as they run Transparent power treatment devise, I have no idea what it was. The sales guys was very little informed what they do but they were very polite, courteous and willing to help, so was I. The souse was Meridian DAW, the ripped CDs.

Sound. That was interesting. Something was very severally compromised in there across the board and it was clearly at the very beginning. I do not Meridian sound but I did have a feeling that the CD souse was not good. Sound had that " washy burned not crisp" feeling that I might under attribute to ether very bad digital front end or to bad electricity. I did asked the guys in there if they feel that they lose any quality or obtain any problems while they rip the CD to the Meridian server. They said that they do not and that the ripped CD sound much better then original. I accepted the answer and did not argue.

With exception of the across the board "washy" sound it was impossible do not notice that Alexandria XLF, even despite the inferior electronics ( a pair of Lamm's M1 was sitting right there and I have no idea why they did not use them), did offer something remarkable. The innermodulative XLF handling, the  ability to portrayal complex lo level lower MF signals why handling stressful upper MF was truly tour de force of loudspeaker capacity in my view. How David is getting this from his largest Wilsons and how he get some much dynamics from his largest Wilsons is a huge secret to me but he does it and to my knowledge no others can do it. Neither the smaller Wilsons can do it, including the Maxx. The largest Wilsons are kind of mystery to me and they in a way define what might be done by loudspeakers.  

Even it was kind of target listening but it was nice pleasurable listening experience.  The music they have on the  Meridian server was mostly the Audiophile crap, the electronics was stone-cold, there was no nuances take care in that setup but the sound was better than I anticipated, at least what XLF did very well was not able to be hidden by what was wrong in that room and with that setup.

Now, if I way that sound was pleasurable and better then I expected then does it mean that sound was acceptable.  No it was not.  The was very constant ever-present pressure from Wilsons, that in the end made me not able to listen too long. Interesting that it was despite that I feel that it was "pleasurable". I do think that the pleasure I got from  some brilliant aspects of  large Wilsons, and   those good thing was truly hypnotizing. The overall pervasive present of VERY characteristic Wilsons bass however made the whole experience kind of strange.  It is like walking around street and to see a hundred dollar bill laying on the grass. Looks attractive, does it? How pretend that this hundred dollar bill that so attractively sitting on the ground and waiting for you is coved in shit, will you pick it up? That was exactly what Wilsons demonstrated and in this case the preverbal shit was played by Wilson's lower octave. It was not juts "boomy" uncontrolled bass that was improperly managed by the room. It was uncontrolled bass but I am not taking about the wrong amount of bass but the texture of the bass itself. It was very bad and it was in particularly bad in context of generally superb lover MF region. I just do not know what to say more: it was just a generic LF noise coming at the bottom and it hugely poisoned anything.

I asks if I can listen another room where Lamms was connected as I do know the amp well. It was Wilson Saha or something like this - 3 ways Wilson slightly larger than Wilson 7. Here sound was absolute crap and it was waste of time to listen it.

In the end the owner of the shot come to the room - a very pleasant fellow. He begin to talk about music, not that he had any interest but it feels that he rather pushing from himself the "pseudo - intellectual musical verbiage" that he feels his customer shall like. I honestly was listening him and had no idea what he was taking. I did ask him a few questions in context of what he said and he kind of behaved like a deer in headlights. Do not get me wrong - I have nothing against the guy, I just wish if so much desperate to impress visitors with his fine artistic capacity then instead of speeding sophomoric verbiage about music and listening experience he would need to make sure that his store have at least one interesting or worthy musical performance.

As I was leaving the store owner asked me what I was thinking about Wilson sound. I said that I did not like bass. He looked at me as I was unfortunate "Cripple of Inishmaan" but he did demonstrated his own class and did not disagree with me.

Generally it was a very nice trip and generally Largest Wilsons just reassured me  that they are the very best what might be taken from single box topology with port. They are for sure a leading age of today loudspeakers  thinking, if you think inside of the box.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-29-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 34
Post ID: 20744
Reply to: 20738
What could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The souse was Meridian DAW, the ripped CDs.

Sound. That was interesting. Something was very severally compromised in there across the board and it was clearly at the very beginning. I do not Meridian sound but I did have a feeling that the CD souse was not good. Sound had that " washy burned not crisp" feeling that I might under attribute to ether very bad digital front end or to bad electricity. I did asked the guys in there if they feel that they lose any quality or obtain any problems while they rip the CD to the Meridian server. They said that they do not and that the ripped CD sound much better then original. I accepted the answer and did not argue.

Romy,

Do you have an idea about what could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad and is there any way that these problems you mention could be solved or minimized?

Did you also reach the same conclusions by "ripping" CDs with your DAW and playback?


I ask this because I am about to move to a different country where I'll be living for the next 3 years and have started ripping all my CDs to avoid having to take them and the system along with me (who knows if/when I'll be back).

I don't have a D/AC at the moment and can't really get one until I sell my current system.

Cheers,
Ric




"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
04-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 20745
Reply to: 20744
Ripping is not good.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 tuga wrote:
Do you have an idea about what could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad and is there any way that these problems you mention could be solved or minimized?
Did you also reach the same conclusions by "ripping" CDs with your DAW and playback?
I ask this because I am about to move to a different country where I'll be living for the next 3 years and have started ripping all my CDs to avoid having to take them and the system along with me (who knows if/when I'll be back).
I don't have a D/AC at the moment and can't really get one until I sell my current system.

Ric, this is Wilson thread  and I will not over it too deep. Generally I do not know what is the cause of "ripped" uncompressed files do not sound identical to CDs. I have been doing for years, not ripping CDs but trying to do it, I went to some extend but I never was able get an acceptable result. Many people degree with me, including some this site visitors but I degree with them.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 294
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 20746
Reply to: 20745
It's the computer!?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have a standalone duplicator and the copies almost always outperform the originals -- and they are never worse.
But I have heard computer-made copies that are okay, so...
cj
09-14-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 21220
Reply to: 1509
Interesting about WAMM.
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-modular-monitor-wamm-loudpeaker-system


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Djoeri
Posts 2
Joined on 02-18-2013

Post #: 38
Post ID: 21453
Reply to: 21220
Wilson headache
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
I've been reading GSC for some time, because I hope to find and learn some different audio perspectives. Untill now I never posted anything because of my total ignorance about horn speakers. But i've heard some wilson audio's a couple of times but always got a headache of these speakers. The last time I tried to listen to the Alexandria X-2 on devialet with ripped audio. But after 10 seconds the headache popped up and destroyed my mood. It was like someone pinching with 1000 needles in my ears. Fortunately at that time I was working at an ENT department and have checked my ear drums.
So i'm a little bit surprised that you used the terms "something remarkable" in your previous post. Well maybe it's those dynamics that my ears can't cope. 
Kind regards,
Djoeri
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 21454
Reply to: 21453
I do not think so.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Djoeri, in my estimation the problems you described, the "pinching needles in ears", is not a problem of the Wilsons.  I do not know what it was and under which condition it was but you shall not have any headaches from largest Wilsons.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Djoeri
Posts 2
Joined on 02-18-2013

Post #: 40
Post ID: 21459
Reply to: 21454
Inverted dome
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
Well, after looking at their website it showed that the alexandria ii and all the smaller ones have the inverted dome which gave me the headache. I already found them soundwise very similor to the smaller ones and now i understand. The alexandria xlf has the silk dome so that will probably give it a different sound. It is just very funny all the big companies switched to diamond/Metall/beryllium and now everybody has it and they turn back to silk and paper. Wenn do we get the cd back? 10 year ? It shines better than vinyl and a hdd. 
Kind regards,
Djoeri
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