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06-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,366
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 4601
Reply to: 4601
Maxonic drivers from Japan

We had this exchange with Christopher Witmer, who lives in Japan, via the AA about the new driver form some small Japanese manufacturer. The dirt who runs that form has deleted the whole development. Hm, people wonder why for years I have a vocal and persistent position that the douchebags that run that site should be eradicated with the most stubborn prejudges....

Anyhow… here is something that is left on my machine for that dealog. I think it would be relevant in context of the Maxonic subject...

Christopher Witmer wrote:

http://www.maxonic-audio.com/

The 104dB sensitivity of the woofers is quite appealing, especially when you consider the frequency response goes down to 25Hz. These are essentially Altec woofers in their conception, so they can be expected to have the same basic character as Altec.

I have not heard the woofers yet. I heard the TW11000B the other day and I enjoyed it IMMENSELY.

Someone who has heard more compression drivers than I have needs to do an in-depth report on their sound. I thought they were absolutely wonderful, and I am not a horn fan, so that's saying a lot. But I could definitely sit and listen to that system forever, and be very, very happy the whole time. But my problem (as a reviewer) is my relative lack of experience with horns. The last time I was really into horns in a big way was about 20+ years ago!

Also, their original amplifiers, based on their original SIT transistors, are outstanding. Someone who has listened to many more amplifiers than I have needs to do an in-depth report on those amplifiers. Great stuff. Let me say that I think they have a character that will be powerfully attractive to many folks on BOTH sides of the tubes vs. transistors divide. The power amp I heard was an OTL design; they also have a power amp with output transformer.

They are just starting to bring the website up-to-date, but before long I will probably translate the whole thing into English for them. It will have considerably more information than just the three pages shown there now.


Romy the Cat wrote:

Fascinating, I do not know anything about them but keep me informed when translate then in English. Interesting what cones and what suspension they use with the MF and HF electromagnets (electro-dynamic?). 

There is however one area of concern that I have. Ironically my concern is about their 104dB sensitivity on the electromagnetic woofers with 25Hz primary resonance. To get higher sensitively they needed to drive a lot of current across the field-coil and this crates “overly dumped flux”. Any single field-coil driver BASS that I tried was hugely benefited from lowering the flux (harmonics of bass notes) and at higher flax the bass was very amusical.  It would be the case with the drivers under the desiccations unless that Japanese company designed the suspension and cones to specifically operate under the conditions of “overly dumped flux” (higher cone’s mass and so on). I hardly believe those people understand/do it as you said that they are “essentially Altec woofers”.  The Altec woofers 515G/B/E have fine cone and fine suspension at near 1.2T and 67dB. The 7dB extra would need .4-.7T more and it will make the 515B to have 25Hz primary resonance but will make it too stiff to play music.

Than came an extended Christopher’s reply (vandalized now) that proposed a self-exclusiveness of low Fs and sensitively… 

Romy the Cat wrote:

 Yes, you are right be they might design the woofer from scratch to operate exactly in the conditions of the “stiff gap” (if the 25Hz/104dB are the right numbers). Pay attention that companies never did it. The Klangfilm made these famous 14” bass drivers identical for perm magnet and electromagnet, where the bass drivers with perm magnet sundered FAR more superior then with electromagnets. Unfortunately all those companies that make driver the do not do it to accomplish specific Sonic objectives but rather to make marketing splash to keep the audio-Morons ™ “to believe. At list I do not see any contemporary electro-drivers manufactures who would seriously explain what they try to do in term of Sound. Perhaps that company do at list state something… you need to translate it.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,075
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 4602
Reply to: 4601
Specs first

Mr. Witmer seems like a very thoughtful and well-spoken person who is taken with the aesthetics/approach of various Japanese sound Senseis, most of whom are in turn rooted in "historical" American and/or English audio sensibilities.  I'm afraid I made some unkind remarks in response to an AA post of Witmer's a few years back, when he extolled and passed on acrane literature from the then proto-company that does this stuff, or it was one so similar that I am not able to discern a difference at this time.  Anyway, the gist of that post was that these guys had used super-exotic materials and artisan craftsmanship to create a 4" "full-range" driver that was housed in a furniture/instrument grade Helmholtz box, which the literature claimed gave a realistic, full-scale representation of [orchestral] music.

Although I wish I had been more circumspect in my response, yet I do not see any real difference in the tone of the company's present approach; perhaps it is a little more "tech-y" now.  At most, I am idly curious about what might be done with one of these drivers; certainly I would ask considerably less from any one of them than these fellows ostensibly do.

Right now it looks like the high-quality drivers they build could be adapted/modified and put to better use than their own speakers have done.

While this is not so different from other audio "products" in general, I always hope and keep watch for a "product" that is actually developed through musical/sonic evolution rather than the repetition and glorification of [archaic] conceptual mantras.

The French "Phy" stuff also looks interesting, in a sort-of similar way.

Best regards,
Paul S

06-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,366
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 4604
Reply to: 4602
"Mr. Witmer", sure it is not my business but….

I do not know what Mr. Witmer does for living  full time and it is not exactly related to the subject of this thread but if he not “too busy” than I think he is well-positioned to run quite successful business venture. He is well-spoken and prolific-enough in English and it looks like he is very fluent in Japanese language and Japanese is culture. He looks like has access to Japanese manufactures and the most important it looks like he likes to intermingle with that marketing aspects of audio….

So, if he wishes he might run some kind of “Japanese Audio Discovery Project” where he would be in epicenter of export-import operation. Sure, the venture like this are being run for years (thanks that Japan has encapsulated culture) but none of them have educational twist and none of them implement deep enough the marketing approach “day rape”. Mostly the people who discover and export the merchandises form Japans are wily Jews who found a quick way make a some money but there is not wide and broad, not to mention expensive and inclusive, Japanese so-called High End export efforts.

I’m not saying that Japanese High End is much worthy then anything else but the audio consumers are generally audio-degenerates and they will be gullible to “bite” anything if it would be flooding in a properly spiced marketing sauce…

There are some distributors who made over $800K per year piping products from Germany, Italy, Belgium and few other places… Japan is Mars compare to them and it has a lot of more potential, if not necessary sonic but Marketing. I think Mr. Witmer is slavering/humiliating himself for one on a few manufactures but instead of doing it he might lock the entire freaking maket of the “expensive” Japanese Hi-Fi, putting himself in the epicenter of the distribution. Someone who will do it with Japanese (and Chinese because of the different reasons) high-end markets will have a nice retirement packages…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,075
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 4
Post ID: 4607
Reply to: 4604
Hear here, Grasshopper
Sharply observed, Romy.

In the same spirit of precision, I want to change my wording above from "Sound Senseis" to "Hi-Fi Senseis", since these guys seem to be so absorbed with "process".

And now that you mention business, I wonder if we have here a source for your "syrupy" 4" driver?  Why not?

Perhaps if Mr. Witmer acknowleges the real wisdom and serious value of your post he will intervene on your brehalf, get the wait down < 2 yrs?

And in case anyone thinks you are kidding here, I want to be sure they understand you are serious as a heart attack.  This IS a great idea/opportunity for W, and would seem to require only a slight re-positioning of his psyche to make it fly.

Best regards,
Paul S
05-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 5
Post ID: 7359
Reply to: 4601
15"/1"
 vuki wrote:


The best sound at the Show (to my ears, again) was in Hiraga/Melody room. 



Hello Vuki!

To my ears this speaker has a very smooth-sounding compression driver that hasn´t deserved being combined with a 15" cone midwoofer (Is it a Maxonic coaxial?) I find the Bullfrog´s midwoofer more precise, but also here it compromises the midrange resolution. I see the 15"/1" thing mainly as part of the vintage trend.


Regards,
Oliver
05-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
vuki


zagreb, croatia
Posts 4
Joined on 05-05-2008

Post #: 6
Post ID: 7360
Reply to: 7359
Hiraga's coax
Hi,

Mr. Hiraga said (and it's also in the promo-flyer) that he uses modified GreatPlainsAudio coaxial, although the one in the speakers that were playing music looked more like original Altec 604 (because of the multicell horn). So, I guess it's not Maxonic. What was that you didn't like with Hiragas sound?
Regards,
Vuki

PS It could be that I'm biased regarding that speakers because I'm listening to 2way Altec (not coaxial) and Tannoy HPD385- so I guess I like the sound of 15" midwoofers...
05-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 7
Post ID: 7361
Reply to: 7360
Large midwoofers
 vuki wrote:
Hi,

Mr. Hiraga said (and it's also in the promo-flyer) that he uses modified GreatPlainsAudio coaxial, although the one in the speakers that were playing music looked more like original Altec 604 (because of the multicell horn). So, I guess it's not Maxonic. What was that you didn't like with Hiragas sound?
Regards,
Vuki

PS It could be that I'm biased regarding that speakers because I'm listening to 2way Altec (not coaxial) and Tannoy HPD385- so I guess I like the sound of 15" midwoofers...



I find the smoothness on top contrasted a bit with the roughness below, but I wouldn´t say I didn´t like the performance. Listening to the Duevel Sirius with decent electronics and decent music (the amount of music played that is produced to get the most out of a kitchen radio and the brain of a truck driver would be worth an extra thread) would have been nice for comparison.
Page 1 of 1 (7 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Vitavox S2 with Electromagnets..  Cutter Head/Servo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     91  635828  01-12-2006
  »  New  Truth stretched out via Feastrex prism...  Goodbye Chris Witmer...  Audio Discussions  Forum     26  188615  01-21-2006
  »  New  Satisfying result: the RMAF Show + Cogent..  A Subject for your post!...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     22  167070  10-25-2006
  »  New  Lowther Driver..  Schadenfreude II...  Audio Discussions  Forum     61  343882  11-15-2006
  »  New  About cost of electromagnetic drivers...  About cost of electromagnetic drivers....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  14539  07-08-2007
  »  New  Another electromagnet driver: Great Vintage Loudspeaker..  An excellent question!...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     17  89837  05-08-2009
  »  New  Jean Hiraga’s cooking of Altec 604..  Jean Hiraga’s cooking of Altec 604...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  17541  08-25-2009
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