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11-03-2009 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 12129
Reply to: 12129
Greek Anima Loudspeakers
fiogf49gjkf0d

Manolis Proestakis from Greek have announced his Anima Loudspeakers.

http://www.tuneaudio.gr/

The lead came from Stefano Bertoncello's blog; the picture was taken from there as well.

http://twogoodears.blogspot.com/2009/11/manolis-anima-speakers-at-athens-show.html

The name of the speakers made me to laugh as I in my ultimate phonetic vulnerability have confused it with “enema”. Then I discovered that   Anima is a word from Greek psychology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima

What however I did discovered within myself that the word “enema” is a phenomenal, beyond phenomenal marketing world for audio product.  If I ever produce any commercial audio device then I would LOVE to call it “Audio Enema Reference MK-II”. Please consider the name  Audio Enema™ is trademarked  as my “Audio Demoronizator”

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Commerce/AD1.aspx

Anyhow, let to be a bit more serious and to look what the Anima Loudspeakers is all about. I have to admit that since the torch of sane sounding horn-loaded loudspeakers nowadays in my hands (among the outspoken people with web presences) I feel sort of an obligation to comment about new interesting species enrolling in my domain.

It is 3-way all-horn loaded. A Titanium 1" compression tweeter in looks like plastic Tractrix 3-5K horn.  Looks like 300Hz wooden Tractrix with 5-inch none-compression driver and 2”-3” throat. Vertical floor-loaded exponential upperbass horn with a 15-inch driver. The upperbass serves as the speaker frame. The crossover is .25K and 1.5K, all first order. The reported sensitively is 107db. Impedance drops to 6.2R.

Anima_Speakers.jpg

Anima is an interesting speaker idea but with very many very controversial moments.  When I have time (probably later on this week) I will do a critical write up about some of the Anima’s idea. Meanwhile, feel free to pass your comments about what Anima’s offers, keeping my below linked position about constrictive analyses in perspective:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=11790

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 12133
Reply to: 12129
Anima design
fiogf49gjkf0d

It may be asking too much to expect the LF horn to play well up to and beyond 250Hz. Although the mid horn probably has an Fc of 200Hz the associated driver isn't going to be functioning optimally at the crossover point either. How well this marriage works will govern how convincing the speakers are. the designer may feel that these compromises are acceptable to make a system that fits within a typical room.  The mouth of the vertical 'horn' also seems a little constricted. the HF driver & horn might be moved forward.  It is an interesting effort though. it would be instructive to hear them.

What your picture doesn't show is that they were using a $20 CD player as the source. Good for them!




I noticed that the Greek company Sonus Aeterna also finally exhibited some of their speakers at this Athens show.



Pictures from ChrisB (HiFi Wigwam)

11-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 12135
Reply to: 12133
Good start, but this is just a start.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 guy sergeant wrote:
It may be asking too much to expect the LF horn to play well up to and beyond 250Hz.
I would expect this horn to go much lower, let say doe to 150Hz. You if it was a front firing horn without loading to a boundary then you will be correct. However, in Anima case the mouth of the horns is loaded to very close boundary and this allows to have horn of ¼ size or even 1/8 side and still to have “some” equalization that would not exist in the case of  a horn firing in open space.
 guy sergeant wrote:
What your picture doesn't show is that they were using a $20 CD player as the source. Good for them!
Yes it is not good BUT what also is not shown is that the next room somebody had a $20.000 CD player that might sound identically or even worth then the $20 CD player

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 12136
Reply to: 12135
LF horn
fiogf49gjkf0d
I meant the upper end of the LF horn response.  Firing it downwards at the floor as they do and then expecting good performance at 200-300Hz in the listening position is a tall order. There may also be some confusion where the mid horn takes over.

I've no doubt that the LF horn will play to below 100Hz particularly if near to a corner.
11-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 12138
Reply to: 12136
The optimistic bouncing.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 guy sergeant wrote:
I meant the upper end of the LF horn response.  Firing it downwards at the floor as they do and then expecting good performance at 200-300Hz in the listening position is a tall order. There may also be some confusion where the mid horn takes over.

I see, I did not “get” that you talk about the upper end of the LF horn response. Yes, the upper knee of the upper bass is very problematic along with a few other things. I would say that we can get any more or less predictable bouncing less than 80Hz. To run it up to 250Hz, and particularly with no mouth phase plus  and the  first order is a bit too …“optimistic”.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 12140
Reply to: 12129
Ok, let take a short ride across the Anima Loudspeakers.
fiogf49gjkf0d

The first and the bigger thing that I like about them is that Anima is trying to use the vertical-horizontal configuration where the bell of the vertical horn serves as frame for horizontal channels. I love this idea and had a number of my own thoughts along this way never successful however.

Then there are the things in Anima that make me less comfortable.

I would like to see much high impedance for the speaker if a speaker claims 107dB sensitivity

The tweeter is sitting at 1.5K, first order.  That is king of low crossover point for tweeter but it is OK. The problem that I see that with this time of the filter and a compression driver used I think the horn for the tweeter shall have around 700Hz mouth. I do not see in the Anima tweeter this mouth; it more strikes me as 3KHz mouth. So, I feel that for this crossover point the HF horn shall be larger, in this configuration there is even a great space for it. It is not to mention that larger/deeper horns will calm down a bit that Titanium dome.

The MF horn is fine BUT…. They claim 107dB sensitivity. This type of horn would give 6dB gains, which makes the 5” driver they use to have 101dB sensitivity. Where the hell they find 5” driver with 101dB sensitivity? I would like to have one as well. There is a “concern” however. The MF rolls off at 1.5K, which is VERY fact for 5” drivers that might work in this type of horn. Evan with no phase plug a 5-incher driver with resonant frequency above 200Hz shall be easily going to 7K. Why Manolis decided to roll it off to fast, particularly knowing that he has the underperforming lower knee in HF channel? This is very controversial as far as I can predict…

Sure the upperbass channel is the most problematic. Anima uses a 15” driver – a big mistake in my view. What Anima did is loading his 15” bass driver in a virtual a pipe – the same as Bruce Edgar does foe his mostly retarded clients in his NEW Titan design. The mouth of the Anima midbass is limited by a sanity of footprint. BTW, this floor-firing horn is a very good solution – it helps with time misalignment problems and it allows having ¼ or even 1/8 size of horn with less length problems. So, to have 15” bass driver automatically assures a relatively large throat of the upperbass horn. Let pretend that the throat is 10’ and the mouth like 150Hz. It I would say 4 feet long horn from 10” to let say 30” – you will not have a proper loading in this type of the horn – it is not a horn but a widening pipe where the 15” driver is shooting all the way throe, choking the mouth.

What I would like to see in Anima is to employ 6”-10” driver and to have 3”-5” throat. That would make the horn to go higher but they do have room in there. Furthermore if the do then this uncomfortable budge atop of the speaker will be much higher (3-2 feet) and much smaller. Then, only then, the Anima will have more properly operating upperbass. Sure it will screw up the whole esthetic of the speaker but it is what it is.

As guy point out, the upper knee of the upperbass channel, loaded to floor and crossed at 250Hz with first order is a bit too optimistic. The whole “melody range” looks like very underdeveloped in the Anima, id it was up to me then I would add a small direct radiator channel to care 100-400hz range. A small direct radiator channel of this range and 105-107dB sensitivity? Good lack to find it….

Sure, to sound more or less complete the Anima has to have a dedicated separate LF channel. I do not see it on the picture and there is no where mentioning of it. Perhaps they run the 15” driver with open back and the bulge is not a back chamber but a vertically fairing direct radiator and feel they try to pick some extra bass that does not cared by the upperbass hors?  I do not know, it looks like the back of the upperbass is sealed, not to mention that a dipole with one side horn is VERY questionable implementation.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
KLegind
Posts 32
Joined on 04-03-2008

Post #: 7
Post ID: 12147
Reply to: 12129
Tweeter location
fiogf49gjkf0d
They paid attention to time-alignment, good - but the tweeters location near a large reflective surface might be problematic.

It looks like a 1kHz tractrix horn to me (maybe 800Hz). I have one though it's from Stereo Lab.

11-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 12149
Reply to: 12147
The Anima tweeter horn. A probable correction.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
The tweeter is sitting at 1.5K, first order.  That is king of low crossover point for tweeter but it is OK. The problem that I see that with this time of the filter and a compression driver used I think the horn for the tweeter shall have around 700Hz mouth. I do not see in the Anima tweeter this mouth; it more strikes me as 3KHz mouth. So, I feel that for this crossover point the HF horn shall be larger, in this configuration there is even a great space for it. It is not to mention that larger/deeper horns will calm down a bit that Titanium dome.

 KLegind wrote:
It looks like a 1kHz tractrix horn to me (maybe 800Hz). I have one though it's from Stereo Lab.

Well, let see. For a regular Tractrix we would need a mouth with the following diameters:

800Hz -135.3mm or 5.3 inches

1000Hz -108.2mm or 4.3 inches

1500Hz -72.2mm or 2.8 inches

You might be right – my initial estimate was not correct and Anima tweeter horn does look like having 5”-6” mouth, even though it is hard to judge from the picture the exact size.  If it has 5”-6” then it would make it suitable for 1.5K crossover.  Thanks for pointing it out.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Morfeas
Posts 3
Joined on 04-10-2009

Post #: 9
Post ID: 12150
Reply to: 12140
Anima
fiogf49gjkf0d

Hi Romy,

been reading you for some years now and 99% of the cases agree with your judgments (and sarcastic criticism).


Some data on ANIMA.

The bass is an exp horn tunned to 50Hz using the floor as a virtual expansion of the missing length/mouth. The bass horn was developed after my personal J shaped 50HZ 6400cm2 mouth, wanted to go commercial. I didn't agree but she insisted : ) Going on a strict diet and here you see the results. Can understand the doubts on the upper range but properly phased -to the rest of the ways- and positioned, has no issues on either listening tests or measurements.

Mid horn is a full mouth 200Hz tractrix. Allow me not to elaborate any further on driver etc. It's doable to squeeze this kind of efficiency from stock drivers if you provide the proper design, give them a good massage and trade off with limited bandwidth ; ) 

Hi horn is a full mouth 600Hz tractrix. Maybe the photo/color doesn't help in getting the size right. That's the only one which is straight forward in the design part. The material thou is not. The final choice is high quality epoxy resin with some aggregate mix additives. Have build a dozen of them to get it right.  

All pieces -except drivers- are build in house. No 3rd party or sub contracting.


Regards,


Manolis Proestakis

www.TuneAudio.gr

11-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 12151
Reply to: 12150
More about Anima horsn.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thank, Manolis, it did address some concerns.

I think I even know what you did with the MF driver. You were able to get 50Hz out of this looks like horn? This is impressive. The boundaries-loaded horns sometimes allow doing away with the horn size and make even the 1/8 size to be operational. Might I ask you: what is the resonance frequency of your midbass driver loaded?

If I were you I would very certainly go for a slightly smaller midbass driver and a slightly smaller midbass throat. Let pretend that it would be 10” driver and 10” smaller throat. Then your midbass horn will go a feet taller – very manageable. As the benefit you might have:

1)    Ability to make the back chamber twice smaller.
2)    Removing the reflective corner from tweeter pass
3)    Pick a few dB of equalization at the bottom of midbass’ output

BTW, even as it is I would make the back chamber on the vertical horn not rectangular but circular…

Also in my own designs around the vertical-horizontal configuration I thought about the provision to add the “footprint extenders”. The point was that if I make the mouth larger then I get more dB. In any installed speaker one (or two) sides has room to have a lager horn. So, the idea was to add a “wing” to one side to make the asymmetrical large footprint. In some cases it might extend the loading to the wall and pick up 5Hz -10Hz, which always would be very welcoming. In some case you do not even to have the contact between the “wing” and the speaker and all that you need to have is an RTA and a heavy panel semi- horizontally positioned and sitting on the floor on 3 legs with individually adjustable height.

Might I ask you how do you fine the sound of the Anima? Anything that you like and anything that you would like to have to sound differently? Do you listen them “as is” or you use a help of some kind of complimentary LF devise? If yes, then what LF you feel works well with Anima? How heavy the upperbass horn? Did you detect any differences in sound and in midbass resonance frequency when you placed the upperbass not on the hard legs but on the spongy legs? How about a fat hairy carper – what difference it makes? What music do you listen?

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 11
Post ID: 12153
Reply to: 12151
... in the meantime...
fiogf49gjkf0d
... while Manolis will find the words to reply to Roman's questions, let me post a pix of the prototype I listened to at Manolis' place, last spring...

As you see, the design showed at Athens' show, last weekend, is QUITE different...

I trust Manolis will forgive me, as I'm - sort-of - "unveiling" part of the developing process, as a work-in-progress, behind "Anima" speakers... BUT this "behind the curtains" is something to be MUCH appreciated, as Manolis didn't only made drawings and dreaming about his speakers... he used ears and hands, as well...

He's a friend, yes... but his effort in trying and retrying, before reaching the actual shape of his creations is something I like...

I repeat: I didn't listen to the actual Anima's speakers, yet... hope I'll do in the very next months.

... but what I listened to months ago, was... well: noteworthy!



"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Morfeas
Posts 3
Joined on 04-10-2009

Post #: 12
Post ID: 12185
Reply to: 12151
Even more ANIMA
fiogf49gjkf0d

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Oh yes. 50Hz is possible ; )

Fs of the driver is measured at 32HZ matched for both channels.

As for a smaller driver, the smaller throat, keeping the "same" length for practical reasons wouldn't load it sufficiently. Giving it a few feet more length would be a choice but we would end up with a weirder looking final design. Even as it is the criticism is quiet heavy on the looks. Plus phasing would be much harder keeping the beaming of the rest of the ways as it is now (averaged ear level at least for the mid).

The inside of the back chamber is not square. Corners are rounded. The outside square doesn't add that much reflection on the hi. Directivity of the tractrix helps.


On the sound I wouldn't dear to comment, ANIMA been my creation.

In my listening room frequencies lower than the low end of ANIMA would add more troubles than pleasure. So for the moment I'm listening to it without and additional LF. If necessary I would vote for a box -even mono- with some hi powered PWM amp and heavy DSP pushing it to taste.

Again, in my listening room I'm running them on hard mosaic floor while in the show room we had thick carpet on soft wood floor. I prefer the hard floor been a fan of fast midbass without the usual not natural IMO "tail". The upper bass with the driver is around 70kg.

Music ... If I had to pack some music for one way trip to Marsh it would be Jazz, Blues and Classical.


Regards,

Manolis Proestakis

www.TuneAudio.gr

11-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 12188
Reply to: 12185
Horn vs. Port.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Morfeas wrote:
Fs of the driver is measured at 32HZ matched for both channels.

Manolis, if you have 32HZ of loaded driver resonance and a large throat in such a short horn then I would propose that you have your 50HZ not from the loading but from the fact that the mouth of your midbass horn acts as  a port of your midbass enclosure. The 50HZ it most likely the room response, anechoicly it would be much higher.  It is hard to estimate where the port loading get conversed into horn lording but I think with 32HZ resonance, 1/8 size of 50Hz horn and a large 12”-15” throat it sounds to me that such a design does not load very much into LF. Did you try to make out of room bass driver response of naked driver vs. the loaded driver and to correlate it with impedance curve?
 Morfeas wrote:
As for a smaller driver, the smaller throat, keeping the "same" length for practical reasons wouldn't load it sufficiently. Giving it a few feet more length would be a choice but we would end up with a weirder looking final design. Even as it is the criticism is quiet heavy on the looks. Plus phasing would be much harder keeping the beaming of the rest of the ways as it is now (averaged ear level at least for the mid).

I know now very much what you mean. The weirder looking final design is a bitch with hors!!!
 Morfeas wrote:
On the sound I wouldn't dear to comment, ANIMA been my creation.
Why not?!!!


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Morfeas
Posts 3
Joined on 04-10-2009

Post #: 14
Post ID: 12209
Reply to: 12188
Even more ANIMA
fiogf49gjkf0d

Throat is not that large. ~1/3 sd

Half space response is 50HZ. In room I would expect something lower.


Wouldn't comment because using a public forum for free advertisement is not my cup of tea. 

11-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 12222
Reply to: 12209
About the fear of the “free advertisement”.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Morfeas wrote:
Wouldn't comment because using a public forum for free advertisement is not my cup of tea.

 Morfeas, you of cause might do whatever you wish but I would like to point out that the concept of “free advertisement” is not a expression that even remotely applicable to the framework of my site. This site is as far from “advertisement” as possible and it has very strict and very narrow-minded sonic objective. Also, this site is not free for advertisement. Mentioning anything at this site might expose a concept or a product to critical inspection without any respect to a people, circumstances or status.

I think that propelling at many public forums filthy crony-solicitation practice made you to fear yourself to behave like you advertise something. The funny part is that there is nothing wrong with advertising if you are able to stay behind what you say. We almost lost it in audio as manufacturers do not have voice in audio. The public voices that we hear are the voices of empty-headed whores who hardly understand the meaning of the words that they us. I feel it is incorrect and therefore I asked YOU what you think about the sound of your speakers. If you and me discuss any third party speakers then we would be able to exchange opinions but what is the deference if in this case this third party speaker is yours?  Do you advise me to wait until a pimpy industry idiot would express his/her prosaic idiocy about your speaker? I would prefer to hear from you not from them. It might not be your “cup of tea” but it is only because the industry peed to long time in your cap and you lost a feeling how tee might taste. In any other sane industry – if you for example build bridges, make brass instilments, design cars, perform music or write software – you, the creator, would be the very first and the very valid entry to assess the value of your creation and you will be very welcomed to express your opinion publically. In the stupid hi-fi the industry made you to feel “humble”. Sure, it is up to you, but be advised that they made you to feel this way deliberately in order THEM to have a control over your voice. I do not support this “convention”.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-14-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 19357
Reply to: 12129
Greek Anima in Germany.
fiogf49gjkf0d
At this site http://audio-andromeda.blogspot.ru there is a large collection of images from the recent Munich audio show. I paid attention that Anima Loudspeakers now supplemented with unfortunately-mono midbass horns. Frankly it is very nice looking back-firing horn. Does anybody know about this horn specifics?

AnimaLoudspeakers2013.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-13-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
f1eng
UK
Posts 1
Joined on 09-27-2010

Post #: 17
Post ID: 20263
Reply to: 19357
I own a pair of Animas
fiogf49gjkf0d
I bought a pair of Animas earlier this year. I auditioned twice before ordering, they were made to order. I have good output to 40Hz in my room. I listen at about 5m in a 5m x 10m room with the speakers near the corners. The drive unit integration is good. The sound is fabulous IMHO.My wife, who said she was profoundly depressed when I ordered them, loves the styling, and has even invited friends to come over an look at them (that's tight, look not listen!)They have been beautifully finished in my choice of burl Myrtle.
12-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 18
Post ID: 21391
Reply to: 12129
Anima in Athens 2014
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://theaudiotraveler.com/2014/12/08/athens-2014-big-dazzling-horns-from-tune-audio/



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-08-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 150
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 19
Post ID: 22389
Reply to: 21391
Kion Subs.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Seems Tune Audio made new subs - KION. I read somewhere these use some sort of horn topology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EALyfwn45IU


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
11-29-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 156
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 20
Post ID: 22867
Reply to: 12129
My new Anima speakers
fiogf49gjkf0d
I took receipt of my new Anima speakers yesterday.

Tune Audio Anima with 211 mono.jpg

Aesthetically, they match my listening room very well. Early days, but sonically, driven by my 211 mono amps with Elrog output tubes, they easily better any other speaker I've had in this room. It's funny, but to me, they look and sound like chocolate.
There was some discussion earlier about their LF performance. I've haven't taken any in-room measurements, but strongly suspect I'm getting good output to 40Hz. Certainly, the sound seems very well-balanced and there's absolutely nothing that annoys me about it.
Mani.
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  »  New  The most interesting horn ideas to me so far..  Looking for best horn values...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  34193  04-30-2007
  »  New  The Ridiculous Japa-Brazilian horn. ..  I think you are misting the other side of the picture....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     54  270505  03-02-2007
  »  New  The state of High-Efficiency Loudspeakers...  Tom Danley’s brilliant law...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  60602  02-25-2009
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1217148  12-06-2006
  »  New  Aries Cerat Contendo - the newest "fat" kid i..  Stavros Danos from Cyprus.......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  26114  09-08-2011
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