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03-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Tax


Sydney, Australia
Posts 14
Joined on 04-11-2011

Post #: 1
Post ID: 21572
Reply to: 21572
My Koshka is meowing
fiogf49gjkf0d
Finally listening to my Melq which I have named Koshka!
Here is a photo of my two tiered wooden chassis which I tested before sending it back to the cabinet maker for sanding and oiling.
Thank you Romy for your blog and making the schematic available to the public! 

03-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 21574
Reply to: 21572
Very nice.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Great, thank you very much for naming your amp this way, it means a lot to me. The two tiers configuration is of cause an option, my full range Milqs were in a way two floor amps with all magnetics sit on the second floor. In my case the magnetic were bolted to the chassis but I think in your configuration you have an option to make it fancier. Your second floor I presume will hold light parts that you heavy much can make flooding over the main wooden chassis. You can make ether suspended or erected with some kind of bungees cords or rubber feet. You can even go do air of magnetic decoupling. My only problem with this type of chassis topology is that you need to make the connecting wires from first to second floor longer then they need to be in order to have  the upper floor open-able and maintainable. Can you post a picture of the complete amp?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Tax


Sydney, Australia
Posts 14
Joined on 04-11-2011

Post #: 3
Post ID: 21575
Reply to: 21574
Two tier topology
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks Romy!
I went with two tiers as I do not have much space between the speakers and the side walls as I have a 2.5M cabinet on the front wall.
I named my amp Koshka as I always felt Koshka made a contribution to the development of the Melquiades and the mood of the owner 😆
Is there a way I can upload multiple photos so I can share some photos from various stages of the build?
Yes, both boards (tiers) are suspended by small rubber loops and hooks so anti vibration is built in. The boards are 26mm thick. The transformers and other bits are screwed into the board. Very good vibration absorption.
The OPT and valves sit on the top board which is also suspended. I am also putting castors on the chassis so I can roll it out of the room to work on when I want to change something. I have had to do some tweaking to the circuit by adding some vcap and mundorf film caps I had on hand. Could be because of the length of ps cable causing inductance or electrolytic caps being new, I was getting a bit of sibilance and a hardness in a particular register. The bypass caps seem to have smoothened this out.I am finally beginning to appreciate "dynamic viscosity" and now understand what you have been describing.
Nothing is visible over the top of the chassis as the OPT and valves sit inside. The front cutout serves two purposes,  1 allows me to see the 6C33C glow. 2 allows ventilation for natural cooling.I hope to get the finished chassis back from the cabinet maker by next weekend.
There is a stainless steel plate fixed to the underside of the amplifier board as extra precaution to isolate it from power supply hysteresis.
I have enough space on both boards if I need to go DSET or 3 Channel so it is a bit future proof. With the Avantgarde speakers I do notneed DSET as the subwoofer has its own plate amp.
03-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 21576
Reply to: 21575
A way to insert multiple pictures.
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1120


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Tax


Sydney, Australia
Posts 14
Joined on 04-11-2011

Post #: 5
Post ID: 21577
Reply to: 21575
My system and photos of Koshka (Melquiades) build
fiogf49gjkf0d
My system can be viewed here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIzpv_R-W8

My front end TT and R2R. You can see the upper bass horn built using Fane Studio 8M on the other side of the Duo.
post-104400-0-49198900-1411342286.jpg



Tribute OPT and Nichicon PS caps
post-104400-0-20580300-1405475666.jpg



PS Board insituDSC02060.jpg



Power supply board suspended inside bottom tier of chassis
DSC02057.jpg


The Omron timer with 4 Min delay for B+ to the 6C33C

20150214_133911.jpg


Here is a photo when I was putting the PS together
20150214_132317.jpg



Here is a photo of the power supply board with the suspension loops
20150214_132257.jpg
03-04-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 21580
Reply to: 21577
Are you sure?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hm, Tax, are you sure that to play the irelevant sounds that you presented at your YouTube videos you need any Milq, horns, TT or any other playback more sophisticated then the iPhone? I think you (and not only you alone) need to make a break from audio assembling and even from playback listening and to try finding for yourself what music consuming might be all about. There is no true definition of “better” and there are no priorities of Sound among the sounds that you play within your playback. A definition of “better” playback shall gravitate you from the sequential sounds that you are listening now to more meaningful music. If it does not happen then you just are spinning your wheels while performing irrelevant audio activities.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-06-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
c1ferrari
Southern California
Posts 9
Joined on 10-23-2011

Post #: 7
Post ID: 21588
Reply to: 21577
Nice System...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks for sharing your vid :-)



Very best regards,
Sam
03-09-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Tax


Sydney, Australia
Posts 14
Joined on 04-11-2011

Post #: 8
Post ID: 21594
Reply to: 21580
Spinning towards more meaningful music
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Hm, Tax, are you sure that to play the irelevant sounds that you presented at your YouTube videos you need any Milq, horns, TT or any other playback more sophisticated then the iPhone? I think you (and not only you alone) need to make a break from audio assembling and even from playback listening and to try finding for yourself what music consuming might be all about. There is no true definition of “better” and there are no priorities of Sound among the sounds that you play within your playback. A definition of “better” playback shall gravitate you from the sequential sounds that you are listening now to more meaningful music. If it does not happen then you just are spinning your wheels while performing irrelevant audio activities.

Romy, thank you for your input!
The video was taken over a year ago when I bought the R2R player and I borrowed some Yarlung tapes to hear what the R2R sounded like and posted the video for some friends to get an idea.
While agreeing that an iphone would do the job of recreating sequential sounds I am of the view that a playback system should be able to handle anything that it is fed.
When I get my playback right then I will embark on the third phase of my journey....listening and learning about more meaningful music. 
In the mean time Koshka continues to Meow 😀
03-09-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Tax


Sydney, Australia
Posts 14
Joined on 04-11-2011

Post #: 9
Post ID: 21595
Reply to: 21588
Thank you!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 c1ferrari wrote:
Thanks for sharing your vid :-)

Thanks c1ferrari!

03-09-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 21596
Reply to: 21594
Hm… I do not think so but it is up to you.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Tax wrote:
When I get my playback right then I will embark on the third phase of my journey....listening and learning about more meaningful music. 
Actually, I disagree with this approach. It is like you are searching a needle in a haystack but you never ever saw how needle looks like and do not even know what needle is. What chance you have to find anything? Moreover, what chance you have to learn where to stop to seeking for needle and when to start your “third phase of your journey”? It is like cooking, adding salt to your soup. How do you know when to stop of you do not have appreciation for eating?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 187
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 11
Post ID: 21598
Reply to: 21596
Not quite sure what you are saying Romy
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 Tax wrote:
When I get my playback right then I will embark on the third phase of my journey....listening and learning about more meaningful music. 

Actually, I disagree with this approach. It is like you are searching a needle in a haystack but you never ever saw how needle looks like and do not even know what needle is. What chance you have to find anything? Moreover, what chance you have to learn where to stop to seeking for needle and when to start your “third phase of your journey”? It is like cooking, adding salt to your soup. How do you know when to stop of you do not have appreciation for eating?


Do you mean that the way to good sound is unlikely to be found through trial and error (this piece of kit vs that piece of kit) but rather through appreciation of what you want to achieve in your sound reproduction and the reasoned adaption of available audio technologies and implementations to achieve that?


03-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 222
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 12
Post ID: 21599
Reply to: 21598
Gearheads beware?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think the problem is like the chicken/egg dilemma - what needs to be there first? If we don't have the music appreciation first, how "good" can the playback be?. If we have achieved a technical solution, how can that lead to better appreciation of music?


I personally think that appreciation of music and audio are not connected. I enjoy music best when studying a score with no noise around me at all. Maybe a suitable glass of wine and cheese or something. I prepared Stravinsky Firebird for a recent concert mostly in my head. It was far more 3 dimensional than even the playing on stage. I don't think that I will even be able to translate that image in my head to playback. When I listen to the recording now, I am kind of torn between what went on in my head with the score, what I heard on stage, what I felt when playing and now the image in my living room. I wish that I could connect the dots........... I have no idea where to start. It sure isn't with a better tweeter!


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
03-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 21600
Reply to: 21599
Yes and no.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 rowuk wrote:
I personally think that appreciation of music and audio are not connected.
   
I do not say that they do ether. I however do not feel that building a playback and playing on it those sequences of noises does not allow the owner of this playback to have any association of playback results with people who have musical objective in audio.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 187
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 14
Post ID: 21601
Reply to: 21599
I agree with you both, but...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 rowuk wrote:
 I personally think that appreciation of music and audio are not connected.


Definitely agree here.  I have always appreciated music and was always frustrated in my youth when my piano did not actually sound as "it should have" in my head.  Frustrated musician I was...

But in the last few years I have begun to try to get a better musical connection through a better sound system and unfortunately this means playing with audio gear...something which I would never have foreseen myself even contemplating five years ago.  Doing it like run of the mill audiophiles or diyers do it seems pointless from a lot of perspectives, but at the same time I want to be able to put together a musically satisfying system and then be done with it...just immerse myself in what gives me the real pleasure from there on in.


Even though I am aware that collecting drivers and horns and tubes and capacitors et cetera will not get me that musical connection that I really seek, I do need a place to start in lieu of spending another decade visiting people and rooms, trying to understand technologies and trying to figure out how to get what I want.

There are two primary reasons (among others of course) why I personally am attracted to Macondo/Melquiades:
  1. Your description of "soft bass".  I go to a concert hall and listen to an orchestra and what I hear correlates to my interpretation of how you describe soft bass.  This is what I want, almost more than anything else in audio.  I have not really heard it yet in any audio installation.

  2. You outline some of your thought processes regarding why you have made many of your decisions with your acoustic system.  To me, this is very important because I could (and probably would) make up all kinds of crazy assumptions about the "why" if all I knew was the "what".

I would like to think that I am undertaking to emulate your system for mostly the right reasons.  From time to time I feel like a bit of a goose for buying ancient audio drivers, frequenting audio forums such as this, reading books on electronics and building valve amplifiers and clogging up my shed with MDF dust and rings or even for simply considering placing giant horn speakers in my listening room.  But for me it is a case of "the end justifying the means", and if I can think and reason and learn from others enough to be able to implement a good sound within a couple of years then I will be the happiest bloke in town.

Tax put up a few videos for his friends when he followed your lead and added an upperbass horn to his AG's that roughly showed differences with placement of the new horn (at least I assume that is the purpose of those videos).  As a further step he is now building a fullrange Melq in an effort to further understand what you are talking about in your description and his act of building it could probably be construed as an act of faith in the lead you have taken (already he has mentioned beginning to understand what you mean by 'dynamic viscosity').  Admittedly, I can see why you think this is "spinning his wheels" but I can not think of any other way forward unless you do spin the odd wheel from time to time.  We have all done it I am sure.  And that is precisely why I picked your system Romy as a starting point...because I don't want to "spin my wheels" if it can be avoided.

Regards,

Anthony
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