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06-29-2012

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Stitch

Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #:	1
Post ID:	18345
Reply to:	18345

47 Lab Digital

My EMM labs CDSA-SE is very unreliable and I think, I will do a last repair or maybe I will throw it directly into the junk box. Depends on my mood...but I found some interesting Design from 47 Labs. But never listened to one.Anyone, who can write something about it?

Kind Regards
Stitch

06-30-2012

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scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #:	2
Post ID:	18347
Reply to:	18345

47 Labs US distributor

Hi Stitch,

I met Yoshi, the US distributor for 47 Labs, a few times for coffee when he was visiting Tokyo. We discussed Jazz music and his modern artwork in detail, topics that were so interesting we never got around to classical music or equipment.

I have no experience with 47 Labs equipment so obviously I have no opinion there. Of course the "process" of how you develop an opinion is important as, in the final analysis, the only opinion that matters is yours.

However, I do have a personal view on the US distributor, who I found to be professional, knowledgable, and considerate; I would not hesitate to reach out to him for targeted inquiries or do business with him. Best of luck!

07-01-2012

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Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #:	3
Post ID:	18351
Reply to:	18347

May I suggest

Metrum acoustics mini dac octave as an alternative to NOS dac from 47 labs. The same concept in modern application. I had a chance to listen to this dac as compared to 47 labs cloned dac (the clone was unfortunately filled with those expensive black gate caps Wink

It was a short demo so can't offer much insight but it was clear that Metrum Accoustics was much more interesting ,with better, more natural detail and harmonics, more dimensional presentation ,closer to dynamic contrast of LP recordings. Nice product and the price is right. Granted , the clone is not 47 labs original DAC but yer know ,they can get pretty close or better at times..Rgrds. W

07-01-2012

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Stitch

Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #:	4
Post ID:	18352
Reply to:	18351

Back To The Future

Thank you for all ideas.I never listened to 47labs or to Metrum. all I have is a contact to a 47labs owner, he uses Flatfish Transport & Gemini DAC with a few Power supplies (2 or 3). In a way, is it really competitive with such a modern Design like Meitner? When I understand it correctly, it is simple analog conversion, but isn't it the same like 1985????
I listened to so many super expensive Digital Gear but honestly, I never heard such a difference that I was able to say, "yes, that 5k,10k,20k,40,60k$ unit is the way to go, it is not different, it is really something much better than before"

Kind Regards
Stitch

07-01-2012

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,664
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	5
Post ID:	18353
Reply to:	18352

Great, another recommendation Thread

Stitch, wohnen Sie nicht in Deutschland? Have you ruled out Accustic Arts? They are rare here but should be easy to find in Germany. Anyway, I can't speak for the DACs, but the transport is a well-thought-out and made, un-fussy unit with a very nice remote that you can set up easily and then forget about. They offer 1-box units, as well, or they used to, that I have not heard, either.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-01-2012

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	6
Post ID:	18354
Reply to:	18352

Did you try the CEC TL0 Mk2?

I do not monitor what is going on with digital for a few years but from my arrested development I remember that there was no more interesting 16bit transport then TL0….

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-01-2012

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Stitch

Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #:	7
Post ID:	18355
Reply to:	18354

I am so lonely

Paul, I guess, I know your headline from somewhere...:-)Well, my System has no German units and that is without any doubts one of my better decisions. No change planned.
Romy, to be honest, I lost interest in those super expensive digital units after all those years. I had some and after some time I realized that they are good for the Ego but are not able to survive a longer time. Possible that the problem is mainly in the Software...but my time in huge digital investments is over.
47lab is also everything but cheap, but maybe there is a better brain behind????
Who knows...

Kind Regards
Stitch

07-01-2012

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	8
Post ID:	18356
Reply to:	18355

It is if you want it…

Stitch wrote:
Romy, to be honest, I lost interest in those super expensive digital units after all those years. I had some and after some time I realized that they are good for the Ego but are not able to survive a longer time. Possible that the problem is mainly in the Software...but my time in huge digital investments is over.
47lab is also everything but cheap, but maybe there is a better brain behind????
Who knows...

Well, Stitch, the subject of expensive digital units and our willingness to invest into them is certainly very rational but I think it is not the subject that you initiated. The 47lab is very expensive unit and hugely outdated unit the will play only some 16 bit disks, not all of them. So, the presumption is that a person who is willing to explore the realm of 47lab is interested in “those super expensive digital units” or in hypothetical ultimate 16 bit playback, would it be actually ultimate or presumed ultimate.

It is coplicated to think what person might do nowdays if he willing to get 16bit good transport/player. The possibilities are truly endless with perhaps 100 models of all imaginable topologies. The irony is that the great variety of choices we do not become wiser. We still have no idea why out good transports sound good and which of them actually sound good. Unfortunately the people who digital dedicatedly, would it be professionally or amateurishly do not demonstrate any neither intelligence on the subject nor the actual results worthy to consider. So, as 20 years back you need to get a unit the you feel might be promising and try it. It is if you want it…

Rgs, The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-02-2012

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,664
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	9
Post ID:	18357
Reply to:	18355

Cost vs. Value

Stitch, I hope you understand that my great-sounding "American/Canadian" i-DAT 44+ is made from the cheap and tacky stock i-DAT 44, which is quite inexpensive but also not interesting, IMO. God knows where the stock unit was actually made, but it is also "cheap" in terms of build quality, etc. On the other hand, screw the "nation of origin", the box-stock AA "Drive" units are pretty much plug and play, even for a high-demands system, and they are well built to stay true.

You might insist on anything to start with and find yourself with a "project" to make it work in your system, or it might take regular fiddling with it to keep it in tune, or even to keep it up and running. No doubt Yoshi will steer you straight if you talk to him, according to what he understands about what you want. I was second-guessing that you might want an easy plug-and-play solution that you can ignore, once it's integrated, and from personal experience I know that the AA is such a "product". In my own case, I can barely make myself follow through with hi-fi projects anymore, so "ignore-able" quality is more important to me now than it used to be.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-02-2012

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tuga

Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #:	10
Post ID:	18358
Reply to:	18345

My experience.

Stitch wrote:
My EMM labs CDSA-SE is very unreliable and I think, I will do a last repair or maybe I will throw it directly into the junk box. Depends on my mood...but I found some interesting Design from 47 Labs. But never listened to one.Anyone, who can write something about it?

Stitch,

I have owned 47 Labs Shigaraki transport and D/AC for a while.
The transport mechanism is said to be a cheap JVC boom-box unit in fancy clothes and is a real pain to use: the remote is very cheap and only works when pointing straight at the sensor, the display is tiny, dim and shows little information and you have to press the TOC button for 2 for 3 seconds prior to listening (in my unit the tolerance was so narrow that I found myself having to press the damn thing a few times).
As for the D/AC, it sounded veiled, relatively monaural and a lacking in dynamics; I'm not sure how much of this is due to the lower-performance chip, NOS or just poor implementation and power supply design...
If you are looking for proper design, built quality and durability I would look elesewhere.
The same is true regarding sound.

Cheers,
Ric

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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