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  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  64914  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  133085  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  211166  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  250676  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  The future of loudspeakers according to Lynn Olson....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  107397  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  224320  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  706235  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  40206  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  47861  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619733  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  18686  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  107365  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  55241  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  93818  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  No wonder...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     72  407127  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1141306  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  253096  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  87115  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  83675  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  438860  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60748  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Assholes, learn from Grande Castine...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     47  382516  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  I wish the TuneAudio stay with whatever subs they do....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     32  134497  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  82550  08-22-2011
04-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 141
Post ID: 7321
Reply to: 7319
The TAD’s pulsating alien syrupiness.

 be wrote:
The TAD 4001 and 4002 have a number of sharp narrow resonance peaks  in the  range  10kHz-20kHz

I would think it was lover – somewhere around 8kHz. That was exactly what did not like in the TADs – it was some kind of “alien syrupiness” that wrapped all music. There was some kind complete sonic vacuum anywhere before or after the “alien syrupiness” and then in the region in the “alien syrupiness” the driver suddenly threw some “glyceriny pings”…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-30-2008 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Paul Butterfield
Winter Park FL [Next to Rat-Town]
Posts 5
Joined on 08-24-2006

Post #: 142
Post ID: 7327
Reply to: 7308
From an experienced TAD (TD2001) user...
Hi Romy, 'tis been awhile, but my friend Neil alerted me to this discussion, and thought I might contribute to it. While this segment of my TAD 'Whitepaper' deals with only the bugscreen, there are many other …" evolved results…" that, to my ear, and others, offer significant improvements. And yes, if you ever come down to Florida, I'd be pleased to set up a demonstration in my listening room. Alas, although we are far apart in ear training, I believe we can find a common ground for reference. Anyway, from my research:

The TAD bugscreen is the fine mesh metal screen in the interior throat of the motor which is held in place by both pressure and glue between the top motor plate and the interior horn throat chamber. Its purpose is to keep foreign objects from migrating to the VC gap area.  I have also found (on older models) that the cement that holds the bug screen in place, in some cases, had been grievously over-applied during manufacture, and has caused additional restrictions in the throat area — somewhat like hardening of the arteries. The general opinion among the JoeNet Gurus is to remove it. This is also my advice as well, based on the following:

“It is noteworthy when audio enthusiasts on both sides of the pond are in agreement, but the overwhelming consensus for a significant improvement in sound of the TD2001 is removal of the "Dread Bugscreen." We (the Central Florida Audio Society) had a blind A/B comparison of identical TD 2001 drivers, one with, and one without the bug screen.  What was significant — was not that all of the members preferred the sound of the driver without the bug screen — but, in under 30 seconds, everyone that participated in the listen was able to tell which driver had no bugscreen.”  ~ CFAS newsletter

TEST CAVEATS:
1) For these listening sessions we used a very fast [NASA surplus] A/B switching relay which all but instantaneously switched between the two horns. The relay was controlled by a push buttons switch, so no one could tell by looking which driver was operating.
2) A pair of exactingly matched TAD 2001 drivers (Measured with LAud w/bug screens in) were used.
3) The small horns were next to each other, with the motors touching each other, so they were as close together as was physically possible.
4) These listening sessions were held in an acoustically damped room. No reflections.
5) The "Dread Bug Screen" listening session have been repeated with consistent results.
6) My reasoned opinion is that by removing the bug screen, one also remove the excess glue wad which compromise both pressure and diffraction.

My personal impressions of the audio presentation without bug screens, in a word, is "unveiled." To my ear (as well as the others who participated in these A/B listening sessions) removing the bug screen resulted in better resolution and transient response with less distortion. IOW, it improved the articulation and speed of the high end. The sound of the horn and driver with the bug screen seemed muffled, harsh and peaky... in a word, " strained. "

Paul B


--
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
- Angela Monet
04-30-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 143
Post ID: 7328
Reply to: 7327
Compression driver and cockroaches.

Thanks, Paul

I have seen your comment about the TAD bug screens at AA. The bug screens are a touchy subject – with some driver removing them works fine with some made sound worse. I did not experiment with TAD’s bug screens…

Generally the bug screens do slightly more than preventing the cockroaches to crawl down into the gap and to build a colony in the driver. The bug screens acts s very effective diffuser. Also, and probably the most important, the bug screens has own acoustic impedance and create a very mild additional contra-pressure from the trout. Some drivers with reliving from this contra-pressure behave better and some worse.

There is another interesting aspect of it – the compression drivers do suck dirt from air and I usually once in a whale clean them. It is good idea perhaps to use very fine nylon stockings atop or instead the bug screens.  I use black nylon condom around my Water Drop tweeter - the nylon is perfectly transparent but has much higher dirt catching capacity then any mesh metal screen.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-30-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
op.9
Planet Earth
Posts 68
Joined on 01-26-2007

Post #: 144
Post ID: 7329
Reply to: 7328
Pioneer 801
Paul, Do you have any experiance if the Pioneer PD-801? I am aware that it is the precursor to the Tad 2001 but I wonder what the differences are. (I picked up a single 801 by accident)
Sorry Romy if this post is slightly off topic...
op.9


everybody used to call me James in my past other-worldly life.
04-30-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul Butterfield
Winter Park FL [Next to Rat-Town]
Posts 5
Joined on 08-24-2006

Post #: 145
Post ID: 7330
Reply to: 7328
The Acoustic Impedance Of Pantyhose...
Absoluitely! The bugscreen is an effective diffusor, if it has been installed correctly. The removal (of other compression drivers) bugscreens is indeed a touchy subject, which I only reccommend if it is fully reversable. And yes, I have used nylon pantyhose [Paul giggles] for years...


--
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
- Angela Monet
04-30-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul Butterfield
Winter Park FL [Next to Rat-Town]
Posts 5
Joined on 08-24-2006

Post #: 146
Post ID: 7331
Reply to: 7329
PD-801
Hey op.9, yes, I have experience (probably the only person this side of the world) in repair and rebuilding of the PD 801. I have about 3 waiting to be rebuilt. I'm using one now, in my 'High Zoot Monomania' mono system, crossed with a 1mfd 2500v Sprague Vitamin Q. The PD needs to be XO'd at 1kHz. In my opinion, the sound is much like the 2001, and perhaps a bit lighter in 'air' — but my listening observations are only relevant for me in my studio. It essentially uses the same dome, VC, former as the 2001, but the mounting ring (on a new) assembly has to be drilled for the PD 801, and TAD, even though I'm a dealer, tells me that such a modification voids the warranty. Aarugh.


--
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
- Angela Monet
05-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
vuki


zagreb, croatia
Posts 4
Joined on 05-05-2008

Post #: 147
Post ID: 7355
Reply to: 7320
Cessaro in Munich
I was also in Munich this year. Cessaro had one of the best sounding systems at the Show, but I thought I could hear some droning bass from BLH. Of course it could also be the room, but somehow I doubt it - I have heard few (some even made myself) BLHs and that kind of bass keep bothering me.
Avantgarde Trios were mechanical, unmusical and just wrong as usual (to my ears).
The best sound at the Show (to my ears, again) was in Hiraga/Melody room. 

Regards,
Vuki
05-07-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
horny
Posts 28
Joined on 11-19-2007

Post #: 148
Post ID: 7365
Reply to: 7355
Cessaro in Munich
 vuki wrote:
I was also in Munich this year. Cessaro had one of the best sounding systems at the Show, but I thought I could hear some droning bass from BLH. Of course it could also be the room, but somehow I doubt it - I have heard few (some even made myself) BLHs and that kind of bass keep bothering me.
Avantgarde Trios were mechanical, unmusical and just wrong as usual (to my ears).
The best sound at the Show (to my ears, again) was in Hiraga/Melody room. 

Regards,
Vuki


vuki, do yourself a favor and read all the posts and rules from this site and spare us from your typical high end bubbling, everyone will appreciate it.
And yes, I was at the Munich show too, heard the Cessaro overpriced piece of boring garbage, but who gives a damn about mine or yours opinion?
Don`t try to pollute the best audio forum in the world, just read, learn and stay silent, then go and try to make something on your own system.
with love,
horny
05-07-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 149
Post ID: 7366
Reply to: 7365
Cessaro in Munich
Angelo, Romy has asked you not to post on thi forum, please desist.
08-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 150
Post ID: 7989
Reply to: 6983
Amplification again
Sorry for reviving this thread without a good reason, but there is something I wanted to add to my comments about amplification. Recently I heard this system http://www.hornfabrik-eder.de/ which was driven by an old Telefunken studio amp. Of course I can´t compare a five way with a three way in the bass, and this system had a Nippon Gakki / Yamaha 2" plus 1" TAD, but I think I can say the Telefunken had the tonal qualities of the Allnic but the control and precision (even in the midrange) the Allnic was lacking. I don´t have too much listening experience with valve amps, but I remember Romy talking about this feedback vs. non-feedback thing, and interpret it the way that it is hard to find a valve amp which does both. With this background I find it dared to adapt the custom mega horn idea to the market realities of the usual hifi circus. Hooking such a speaker up to existing esotheric systems or letting dealers decide (who often are bound to business relations) can lead to unnecessary disappointments.

Regards,
Oliver
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 151
Post ID: 10724
Reply to: 3257
The Cessaro in Munich 2009
fiogf49gjkf0d

It looks like Cessaro roll out tier Beta system to show. I still wait the Gamma but it is not Alfa anymore. I have no idea how it sounded in Munich. Setup-wise the installation looks like was made very uninformed but I am sure it made good pictures that is pretty much the objectives at the shows:

http://www.cessaro-horn-acoustics.com/index.php?id=38

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/munich09/1.html

http://marcs-hifi-blog.audiodoo.de/high-end-2009-hifi-anlage-cessaro-horn-tw-acustic-tla/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9dozdOTeG0&feature=related

Interesting that Cessaro used some kind of TruLife Audio 833-based 150 watts SET amps. I did not read a lot about them (I less and less care about the amps of other people) but configuration-wise I look as the TruLife amp was the only one amps that was used – sound ridicules to me. The Cessaro Beta is begged to be DSETed.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 152
Post ID: 10725
Reply to: 10724
Bad surrounding conditions
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Romy!

Cessaro had severe resonance problems in their room, so I didn´t stay long here.
What I noticed in the short time (maybe too short for a qualified judgement) was no stabiltiy broblems but less musical than the 300B last year. 
Hard to describe, not a kind of annoying coloration, but somehow I had problems in following the flow of the music in the same way as last year (subtractive intermodulation products?). But listening to Burmester this year there was a point where my opinion about the playback chain tilted from natural to cold, so mybe I was in the mood for warmer-sounding amps this year. An other strong contender for the best commercial horn loudspeaker could be Lansche top model. I had the chance to listen to the speaker with dome midrange and they really managed to integrate the plasma tweeter with the dynamic driver. There was an other horn with loaded dome similar to Avantgarde (forgot the name). Interesting that it has the same annoying horn colorations. Why does dome and tractrix horn not work? Opinions from experts desired.

Oliver
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 153
Post ID: 10726
Reply to: 10725
OLE
fiogf49gjkf0d
OLE where did you hear the big Lansche?
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 154
Post ID: 10727
Reply to: 10726
No experience with the big Lansche
fiogf49gjkf0d
Unfortunately I did´t hear the big Lansche.
But if the integration of the plasma tweeter is as good as in the smaller one plus better dynamics below and the possibility to use small amps it could be mighty interesting.
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 155
Post ID: 10728
Reply to: 10725
The limited definition of success?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Oliver,

It is hard to understand or describe what might be with Cessaro in Munich. Sometimes even if you are there it is hard to guess what is wrong. To debug Sound you need to go action and to observe how this particular installation reacts to the actions. This is a whole another subject. My nomination of Cessaro as the “best commercial horn loudspeaker” is not an empty marketing label by rather my recognition of the topological configuration that allow to achieve maximum possible results if the all “other little things” were done right. How all “other little things” were done in Cessaro I have no idea, the opportunity are there however.

Anyhow, judging from the images HOW the Cessaro were installed I do not feel that they invested any efforts into that installation and even if the rest the thing were done “right” (that seldom happen) then I would not expect from the Cessaro room in Munich any offensive results. The fact that they dragged the Beta on the show however does make me happier.

The Lansche top model? I really do not know it. Lansche were a company that playing with plasma Coronal tweeters and if I am not mistake then did mostly direct radiators with plasma. I do not think they did any horns, at least I never heard about it.

The dome and Tractrix horn do not work? I do not know. Again, it is about the little things. Avantgarde MF driver is non-compression dome in Tractrix. Does it work? It is hard to judge based upon just one Avantgarde implementation; particularly knowing the Avantgarde implementation is much compromised. I would not closed the book on dome and horn based on the failures of Avantgarde and few others, not to mention that I do not consider the Avantgarde’s MF cha is a complete failure - they did accomplish what they need in context of their limited definition of success.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 156
Post ID: 10729
Reply to: 10728
Connected components can ruin the sound too?
fiogf49gjkf0d
2xpost


Kind Regards
Stitch
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 157
Post ID: 10730
Reply to: 10728
Connected components can ruin the sound too?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I've been at Munich High End Show, too.Listened to the Cessaro Horn, too, and last year- 2008- I was in that room for longer time...But honestly, based on the money you had to pay for the whole System (Raven, TW electronics, last year it was an expensive Valve Amp ...forgot the name...Kron or something like that with those Cessaro Horns, 2008 it was really disappointing and this year some of my audiophile buddies rated it to the worst 5 Demos. Maybe a little bit extreme, but Headache has its own rules.Probably these Cessaro Horns aren't that bad, probably the connected components are responsible for the inferior result, don't know. I listened to a lot of Horns and I only get Headache when the connected Electronics is over the edge. WLM has interesting speakers, this year they showed some small ones (recession-friendly), but they have better ones, Avantgarde is the usual stuff, loud, no focus, no body, but they look good =)


Kind Regards
Stitch
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 158
Post ID: 10731
Reply to: 10730
Stich's deaf buddies
fiogf49gjkf0d
Your audiophile buddies must be deaf stitch, the Cessaro room was easily the best at the show, although  to be fair there wasn't much competition, Magico sounded as if the sound was being pushed into the speakers, YG wasn't bad, their sealed aluminium boxes worked quite well, MBL had a smaller set up than last year, the Hiraga room went up in flames!
How would you have set the room up Romy?
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 159
Post ID: 10732
Reply to: 10731
Deaf is not deaf, there are differences...
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't think they are deaf, but honestly, you are the first who writes that this Cessaro Horn room was one of the best at show.I guess, you are the Deaf one, I know another one in Germany who writes very important messages =) and he is deaf in one ear... Even Woschnik said, it was nothing special.


Kind Regards
Stitch
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 160
Post ID: 10733
Reply to: 10732
A stitch in time
fiogf49gjkf0d
Stitch I spent the week in Munich and was fortunate enough to spend quite a biy of time in rooms that interested me, did your friends compare hi-fi to other hi-fi  or do they compare  hi-fi to real music?
Romy are you familiar withthe 833 tube?
Page 8 of 10 (191 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 6 7 8 9 10 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  64914  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  133085  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  211166  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  250676  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  The future of loudspeakers according to Lynn Olson....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  107397  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  224320  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  706235  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  40206  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  47861  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619733  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  18686  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  107365  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  55241  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  93818  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  No wonder...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     72  407127  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1141306  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  253096  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  87115  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  83675  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  438860  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60748  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Assholes, learn from Grande Castine...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     47  382516  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  I wish the TuneAudio stay with whatever subs they do....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     32  134497  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  82550  08-22-2011
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