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03-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 121
Post ID: 29644
Reply to: 29643
Ars Gratia Artis
I can imagine worse ways to die than falling asleep while listening to Music I enjoy. It sure seems like, if anything "sets us apart" from machines, it's levels of self awareness. Regarding a hi-fi system, I have speculated for some time now that "someone" might "hear all the Music they need to hear" via a Walkman/iPod. How nice for them. So far I have not ascribed Music to my hi-fi, rather I regard my hi-fi as a "tool', a proven-to-me way to access/enjoy Music, such as it is via my hi-fi. I have said for many years that I am not interested in hi-fi apart from Music, and that remains the case for me.

Paul S


04-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 122
Post ID: 29648
Reply to: 29644
Proof of Concept

When it comes to filtering hi-fi promotions, we each have our own gamut to run, starting with generally-untethered “technical” claims, also “attributions” and “associations” aimed at bolstering the “credibility” of the gear and promoter. With these gambits we are typically offered the “reasons” for better sound along with introducing the unimpeachable, wizened elders who nobly brought this stuff to light (and sound). On a good day (for hi-fi promotions), we are finally offered what amounts to a “Proof of Concept” demonstration, where the person or people making the audio presentation offer up something they believe (or simply hope…) “seals the deal”, by letting prospective clients “hear for themselves” what the proffered gear can do in the way of sound and/or music. If you find yourself in this latter situation, try forgetting for a minute the “technical issues” involved in this process and simply ask yourself if this demonstration “works” for you; does it help you to make a determination, whether or not to pursue the proffered gear? Was it the sound or was it the music that moved you? Can you dig deeper about what in particular moved you?  Meanwhile, try to hold on to the thought that however moved you might be, this could be the only time it happens, or it might be that the only way to make it happen again is to basically re-stage the specific event that moved you in the first place. In the end, after money is tendered and the gear finds a new home, we begin again the process of wheedling out of the gear the sound we actually want that allows us the Music we actually want to listen to. If All Went Well, we used our personal aesthetics as guides, filters and gates to sort the gear prior to adopting it, and we also use our aesthetics in setting up and refining the sound and the Music we get from the gear at home. As noted ad nauseum, personal aesthetics certainly play an important role in digesting and refining the experience that shapes the Music experience and the system, alike, if there is more to be gotten from the system than untethered sound and +/- random sound effects. How great for those with aesthetics so finely tuned that they can find what they want irrespective of the delivery system!>>


Paul S

05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 123
Post ID: 29713
Reply to: 29648
Can Music Survive Hi-Fi?

Yes, Music can live through hi-fi, as I know from my own experience. But I’m the “Degree Guy”, after all, so I will qualify this afirmation by saying it appears to me that the system developer-and-user might or might not get more than they understand of Music or level 1 sound at any point during system development-or-use. While this (ironically) means that someone might actually get Music or Hi-Fi (or both) from a non-personalized system (something someone else developed), this is the serendipity we talk about around these parts, and the lucky guy is also ripe for a letdown; at least this is so when the lucky guy does not understand the relationships between Sound and Music and Gear and Implementation, not to mention Aesthetics, which are always personal, in terms of results. Succinctly, if it isn’t repeatable, it’s random, and if it’s random, then what is it, anyway? Sure, there are plenty of examples where nobody is concerned or motivated by these thoughts. But one has to wonder that someone has read this far if this is the case for them. Anyone?>>


Paul S

05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 497
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 124
Post ID: 29714
Reply to: 29713
Huge topic
After we have bought and installed a system (regardless of the care taken), the results from that system (regardless of overall quality) are no longer random for us as we acclimate and are creatures of habit. The only way to "randomize" the playback results is to manipulate our response to stimuli. In a primitive way, taking a long hot shower before listening can relax us and allow for better reception of "detail", driving a couple of hours through big city traffic would tend to lower our sensitivity.

My own story as a performing musician has more entry options for manipulation - but not necessarily any increased need to use them. I retired in January and do spend more time with a score when I am listening. This visual causes my focus during playback to shift based on expectations arising by recognizing patterns in composition - essentially making my playback completely random but my level of satisfaction with the ritual much greater.

So, my answer is that music can certainly survive HiFi because the ears that appreciate musical results will also be able find the aural clues and excitement in playback. Now, one could question if random listeners not looking for a "musical experience" could get drawn into a playback performance. My experience with this would cause me to say NO! Many of those random listeners are actually disturbed by playback that draws attention to itself. It can be interpreted to be an ATTACK on their conciousness, something they do not know how to handle. I do have many such discussions with my wife who more or less is perfectly content with music only in the background and has a low tolerance level for "challenging performances". She does not get in the way of my serious listening but has no interest in taking part (or keeping her mouth shut when she does happen to be in the room).


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,474
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 125
Post ID: 29717
Reply to: 29713
It is not a conspiracy. It is a stupidity
Well, the problem is that audio and music are completely different entities that are not related to each other. In my view, any audio practitioner or reviewer who insists that they understand the relationship between audio and music is simply deceiving themselves, because they have no idea what they are talking about, and they unfortunately spread nonsense to others, advocating that excessive listening experiences are directly related to specific aspects of audio. I have heard thousands of comments from all kinds of people trying to convince me that certain presumed spiritual movements after listening to their playback had a direct relationship to plate current or the height of a cable elevator. Ironically, plate current and the height of cable elevators do have a very distinct, identifiable signature, but the value of this sonic signature is completely misunderstood by the overwhelming majority of people. The sad reality is that some purely audio methods might indeed have an impact on how our psyche recognizes musical events and might help expedite certain mechanisms of the listening experience. But I have seen very few convincing examples of this in public listening settings. Mostly, people just immunize themselves against buyer’s remorse and, after a certain period of time, it becomes disgusting to me.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N.B.C.


Posts 67
Joined on 02-15-2025

Post #: 126
Post ID: 29719
Reply to: 29717
Pragmatism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta

I'm not saying you 'have to' simply spend twenty-minutes grokking all of this philosophical theory while on a small dose of incinerated cannabis that your individual mind and body is 'comfortable' with, and then making it pragmatically real.


Neil


05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 127
Post ID: 29720
Reply to: 29714
Appreciation
Easy to loop through the Aesthetics vs. Level 1 vs. Music "relationship", which is in quotes because the "amounts and proportions of each aspect" are variable, in terms of what we are talking about, in individual cases. If there are "no aesthetics" involved, then - literally - nothing matters. Of course, this is not what we're talking about. Imagine a car radio with poor AM reception. How bad does it have to get before "the Music is gone"?  If there are "no level 1 demands", then no need to read here. If there are, what are they? That's where personal aesthetics can serve as a guide in building a system. The fact that our technical knowledge and implementation are wanting makes it "interesting". The idea of what Romy said about buyer's remorse is also true, and there might be many and variable reasons for it, along the lines of the first sentence of this post. Lying to oneself is common enough, for Myriad reasons, and no reason hi-fi would be exempt from this. Just thickens the goo we can get stuck in.

Paul S
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,474
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 128
Post ID: 29721
Reply to: 29719
Oy. Vey!
 N.B.C. wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta

I'm not saying you 'have to' simply spend twenty-minutes grokking all of this philosophical theory while on a small dose of incinerated cannabis that your individual mind and body is 'comfortable' with, and then making it pragmatically real.
Neil
Nail, you do not exactly understand what people are saying to you. If you find that listening to different versions of audio while you are high makes you happy, then that is wonderful for you. But it has absolutely nothing to do with advanced audio reproduction techniques, because you have failed to demonstrate that it is specifically the audio methods that impact your psychological state. You were trying to say something in your commentary when you attempted to describe yourself, but you have overused AI so much that your expression has lost all meaning.


I have been using AI lately to write my messages because, if I try to write them myself, even I do not fully understand what is that fuck I wrote myself. However, every single phrase that I put under my name, using AI as a spell checker, is something I can stand behind and explain in my own words. I asked you to explain, in your own words, what you are trying to say, and you ignored it. I can assure you that without your explanation, any person on Earth will ignore your messages because they are meaningless. I understand that they may have meaning to you, but as a Taoist master, you need to ask yourself why you are doing this.

I am not trying to be negative toward you. I am trying to show you that, so far, what you publish is not audio exploration, but rather the journey of a person who is high and trying to justify an unconscious state of existence. If you want to add meaning to it, it is your responsibility to provide that meaning, and if you insist on sharing it, then it is your responsibility to make others understand—especially when they explicitly explain to you why they do not. It is up to you. If you keep your creative output confined to this specific thread, you will not have any administrative actions from me.

At the last and the very important part that you do not understand yourself so far, If what you are describing is all that you do with audio then I'm absolutely assure you That anything that you do has absolutely nothing to do with musicality.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 129
Post ID: 29733
Reply to: 29721
Can Hi-Fi Survive Music?

Was there once a connection between mainstream hi-fi and Music appreciation? Thinking way back, my friends and I were only interested in the Music, and we cared very little about the sound, really, and less about delivery systems. Even back then, there were magazines featuring hi-fi equipment, mostly specs and grandiose promises of spectacular sound effects. Some magazines finally published features on equipment and recordings, too, and there were even a few audio critics who critiqued the sound quality of the recordings. Eventually, there were magazines that compared sound from hi-fi equipment to memories of recordings made by the writers, or even the sound(s) of live music, as they recalled.  I am not sure when the “reviewers” began focusing on sound and sound effects, per se, in lieu of fidelity to recordings or music aesthetics, but it’s been this way for a long time now, and one wonders, where does all this leave Music, in relation to hi-fi? Is it really possible to sell hi-fi basically without Music? If yes, what does that say about the “hi-fi market”, including whatever once “tied hi-fi to music”? If no, what does that say about any future for hi-fi, itself, since Music dropped off their radar many moons ago? Is there even a “market” for Music-based hi-fi, if by “Music” we mean evolved appreciation of Music?  Most important to “us”, is there hi-fi gear and are there systems that are developed to serve “advanced Musical aesthetics”? Honestly, I don’t know; but I don’t think so. For those wondering, what now, Romy said recently (grudgingly), that Level 1 sound and the gear involved with it *might* be applied to foster Music appreciation, IF the developer sensed, understood and used gear that served their Musical endeavors. Of course (but of course…), this is the sort of hi-fi we are talking about here, and it’s important to note that this necessary relationship can work without knowing the brands of the gear involved in accomplishing this process. So, feel free to plug in your own gear choices here, as you will. This is not to say, at least in purely practical terms, that gear is widely interchangeable. Actually, far from it, and this is especially true when the mixing and matching is random, which is to say, not based on the developer’s aesthetic choices. On point, gear choices do matter; but they only matter around here if they are purposeful, based on personal Music appreciation and ones system as it facilitates that situation. At this point in time, way down the long hi-fi highway, I don’t see people who build or sell hi-fi gear using evolved Music appreciation as bases for design choices or marketing, and this includes “underground” gear I’ve heard of. And I have to say, it sure looks like what remains of the hi-fi market is not really concerned with Music, at least as I understand it. Basically, "the hi-fi crowd” doesn’t give a damn about relationships between electro-mechanical hi-fi, available Music media, sound, and aesthetically rooted Music. Absent those connections, “hi-fi” very certainly becomes “something else”, and for our intents and purposes, it’s “gone”, at least the industry as we would have it will be gone.>>

>

Paul S>>

05-16-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,474
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 130
Post ID: 29735
Reply to: 29733
The rest is noise
.... a connection between mainstream hi-fi

Paul , I'm sorry, but you are getting things wrong, from my perspective. There is no such thing as mainstream high-end audio. The entire concept is complete marketing BS, which unfortunately has been successfully won.
The immense capacity that high-end audio potentially has is destroyed when people are convinced that high-end audio out there is some kind of composition of specially produced, better-result-oriented equipment or a better-organized listening environment, but it is all unconscious crap developed by unconscious people for unconscious consumers.

The truth is that with a properly structured relationship between the individual and the high-end audio ceremony, equipment, as you and most people know it, is surprisingly irrelevant. High-end audio is a deeply personal and extremely individualistic process for a person to discover different manifestations of consciousness transmitted by the virtue of musicality.

Anything we do or anything in existence is just an expression of consciousness trying to declare itself. You, me, a sandwich on the table, a time, a neutron star, or your favorite toy from childhood are all just expressions of consciousness, materialized in the world in a way our physical rendering is able to understand. The patterns of those renderings become belief systems, or a sandwich, an amplifier, your son or my son, a tree, or a rabbit jumping in your backyard.

Playback equipment is the same transmission of consciousness, and there are so many ways to consume it. Discussing how this reinstating consciousness becomes more or less transparent to an initial intent, and associated with high-end audio as understood today — the height of a cable elevator or plate current of an output tube — is an exceptionally complex concept that, from my perspective, I have never seen or observed anywhere except in my work in 2025.

The brutal unconscious connectivity of sonic changes produced by a cable elevator is just small talk on audio subjects. After my individuation, I completely repel all forms of unconscious projections and small talk. I have zero interest and zero tolerance for that.

People can certainly discuss how a change of the cable elevator affects sound; however, it has absolutely zero relation to whether this sound change is good or bad. It is just irrelevant.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-16-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 131
Post ID: 29736
Reply to: 29735
Sounds Like No (ie, Music Killed Hi-Fi)
Romy, you must know I have very little interest (and zero "faith") in "conventional hi-fi practice", including "high-end" (especially high-end), for pretty much the reasons you dismiss it, and specifically because I choose to deal directly with my own perceptions. Would you also say that the study and enjoyment of Music via electro-mechanical means is not only personal, but nothing about it can be shared? This idea seems self-negating to me, like an oxymoron. Likewise the notion that changes in sound cannot be judged good or bad. Sure, there needs to be relevant context, but isn't that pretty much what we've tried to do here? Reading your posts from early days to the present, you now seem to be saying either you have simply lost interest in your own legacy, or you just don't want to try to talk about it directly anymore, or both. Sorry, the phrase just came to me: "Falling on deaf ears."
Paul S
05-17-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,474
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 132
Post ID: 29737
Reply to: 29736
My Wall.
Would you also say that the study and enjoyment of music via electro-mechanical means is not only personal, but that nothing about it can be shared? This idea seems self-negating to me, like an oxymoron.

Paul, this is an excellent question, and it is the one that I have been asking myself many, many times during the last year. Let me run my mouth about it. Back in 2025, I became, from being a man number three for many years, a man number four. If you read further, you will understand what I mean. I cannot go into the details and specific explanations here for reasons not related to audio. I recorded a video, I think, three or four times, with very detailed explanations, but I decided not to post it. The reason for this is kind of ridiculous. Back on October 6 last year, because of multiple reasons, my wife turned into a maniac psycho, highly unethical, with a single purpose of taking my kids from me. I do not know if she does it, but I know that if she does monitor my site, then anything even remotely usable for her purpose is going to be used against me in court. This is how she operates, but it is what it is. So I need to be very, very watchful about what I post in the public domain. I would not be surprised if I have a private investigator who is monitoring my life. I know it sounds ridiculous, but over the last few months I have been a direct recipient of this “ridiculous,” and so far many ridiculous things have been used against me in court, so I am trying not to take my chances. It is so ridiculous that I took measures to preserve the continuation of my truth in case “something” happens to me. As you understand, it is quite far away from the type of coupling capacitors to be used between the stages.

Without going to jail answering your question, let me answer you with a metaphor, and you will be able to fill in the blank.

There is an old Russian saying also, though I do not insist that it is Russian in origin. A man walks in a field and sees four men building a brick wall of identical size and doing absolutely identical things. He asks the first man, “What are you doing?” The man replies, “I am laying bricks.” Then he asks the second man what he is doing. The second man says, “I am laying bricks in order to make money and feed my family.” Then he asks the third man what he is doing. The third man replies, “I am building a very sophisticated brick pattern, using very unique bricks, joints, and techniques.” Then he asks man number four what he is doing. The man replies, “I am building a castle.” The man asks why he does not use the advanced techniques that man number three uses. And man number four replies that how he lays his bricks is completely irrelevant because he is building the castle. Back in 2025, I became very much not person number three anymore. Not because I feel that man number three is wrong; I just completely lost interest in being man number three myself.

Now answering your question directly: can man number three and man number four share experience and learn from each other? Yes and no. Let’s look at the dynamics of this sharing. Man number three has absolutely nothing to learn from man number four among what is important for man number four. He can observe the techniques that man number four uses and even copy them. However, man number three has no context of how and why man number four utilizes his skills to lay the bricks. He can, for instance, see that man number four adds the urine of an adolescent camel to his cement mix, and he can replicate it. But he has no idea what the purpose of this application is. Then let’s look at man number four. He might or might not need to learn some techniques from man number three, but most likely he will have the interest of an observer, not the interest of an imitator. The reason is that when a person reaches level number four, he stops recognizing external influence as guidance. At this level, a man usually reaches the second stage of metacognition, and the person begins to invent his own brick-laying techniques, which have direct alignment with his vision of his castle. From the outside, all four men do absolutely the same things, but internally, man number four operates in a completely different domain of reality and practice. Back in June or July last year, when Jungian individuation hit me with tremendous force, everything started. As part of individuation, a person completely reconciles and reviews all his past experience and decides what needs to be brought into a new life, where unconscious shadows become conscious and well-expressed sentiments. I do not particularly feel that many of the things I did in the past in audio were bad or wrong. However, I feel that many of my interests, objectives, and methods from the past belong to man number three, in whom I have no interest nowadays.

This is not a verdict; this is an explanation. In my life today, there are very few things that I cannot explain to myself. Welcome to the world of an individuated empath. This is a form of existence that is not well known and is usually grossly misunderstood. One way or another, with the exception of this craziness around my wife and the kids, I am experiencing the best period of my life. Not to mention that the decisions and actions I made in 2025 with my audio installation are absolutely the best I have ever made, and they cannot be explained to people who operate out there at the level of the third brickman.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-17-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,867
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 133
Post ID: 29738
Reply to: 29737
The Rest of the Story
Sad to hear about the tensions in your family, which I have suspected for some time. Plenty of insanity going around, as I well understand, and I have long said, it's contagious. Prophylactic measures must be regularly and religiously taken in order to stop (or at least slow) the spread of this disease.

As for the four masons, for millenia there have been better and worse bricks, also ways to lay bricks, depending on the use the results will be put to and the conditions under which the product will be used. Sure, one hopes a given mason will simply know what to do and how to do it, especially if one is paying the mason for services rendered. Ironically, few who pony up for finished goods have any idea what "should" go into them, or if they are going to be suitable in personal use, which is to say both value-for-money and/or worth a shit, practically speaking. It seems like many-to-most people simply can't or won't be bothered to take an interest and really learn more than one subject, if that. For the rest, people pretty much depend on others to (somehow) point them at and generally provide most of what they need. Wants - as distinct from needs - are another matter. People simply become maniacal about things they want. Who even knows where thoughts and feelings like that come from?

You did mention your present sound system still gives what you want, and I suppose this means in the way of Music you currently choose to listen to. Since I never aimed to copy it, I don't want or need to know particulars for that reason, rather for some context for other remarks you make, eg., the trumpet post.

Best regards,
Paul S
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