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  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1278123  12-06-2006
  »  New  The most interesting horn ideas to me so far..  Looking for best horn values...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  36745  04-30-2007
  »  New  Problems with horns: tweeters...  Re: HF “wildness”...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  141196  07-11-2004
  »  New  Srajan Ebaen and Juicy-Cooking Audio...  Srajan shall stay out of the restroom....  Audio News Forum     8  59632  08-07-2007
  »  New  Vitavox S2 coupling..  Adaptor thickness etc....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  56251  12-20-2008
  »  New  Vitavox S2 driver made in china..  What does it do right?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     36  184933  12-20-2006
  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  A typical convention......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     123  942272  07-16-2004
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619678  10-19-2006
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60745  08-30-2009
  »  New  Vox Olympian secrets unveiled..  Yes :)...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  9420  05-24-2017
  »  New  How difficult is it to achieve Vox Olympian sound..  Another soil might be ruined…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  8233  01-03-2018
06-18-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 61
Post ID: 19520
Reply to: 19496
Quite...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,

My intention was to imply that these were companies who go beyond most in eschewing cabinet resonance, as per the context of the debate in question. I take no issue with the notion that these are companies with greatly disparate objectives and ends. In my opinion, Magico falls firmly into the "so neutral as to be thoroughly emasculated" camp, whilst in my experience some of the larger Wilsons possess notable musical virtues. I must add, though, that my experience of both has been somewhat limited, and wholly in listening rooms/installations unsuited to them.

de Charlus
06-18-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 62
Post ID: 19521
Reply to: 19520
I got it now.
fiogf49gjkf0d
de Charlus, I did not “get” that you were looking from the perspective of cabinet resonance. If so than they for sure are in the very same camp. Well, at least they talk about resonance control. How their speakers in reality deal with cabinet resonance no one knows.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-14-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 63
Post ID: 20367
Reply to: 19521
The listening session ?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, hi
Did you get the chance to listen ? I did listen for some time Kevins development pair in 2008 and they were superb (Using very large subs). I have a pair, in fact the first pair of tone scouts Kevin made. Interesting no one talks that much about the S5, I tried both in 92 and preferred the S5.
I also tried a lot of 12" drivers and stuck with the cheap fans drivers as well. I'm about to finalise my fist venture into subs, but moving house so it will have to wait. Any comments on my 'plan' would be appreciated. two JBL 4645c's driven by two BK electronics 500W class AB sub panels (gain, phase, xover roll off)
Rgds


G
12-14-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 64
Post ID: 20368
Reply to: 20367
S2 vs S5?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, heard Kevin’s installation with large subs. I did have S5 driver in past, it was a single driver and I did not use it in my system but rather experimented with it. I was not too impressed but it was long time and it was during my people when I was running over many many drivers, I very much might lose something… What do you so like in S5 and what do you think sonically is difference between S2 and S5? How did you use both of them?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 65
Post ID: 20369
Reply to: 20368
The S5
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, hi

 Firstly it's probably worth a few minutes about me and my preferences, this will probably add some context. I have 'preferences' and priorities that don't match everyones, but are somewhat consistent with my group of friends who have hifi systems. I am looking for life like scale and weight, emotion, PRAT and musicality (before anyone talked about this to be honest), tonal richness and tonal colour. 'Accuracy' is quite a way down my list. I say this as I cannot remember 100% everything about the comparison.

The system at the time was Linn Sondek, Syrinx PU2, Koetsu Red, Audio Innovations S800 transformer, Croft Mirco preamp, Quad II power amps. It's worth noting that some of the items listed above might seem perhaps compromising, but I had tried and settled on this set up after a number of alternative amps (Audio Research SP10 MkII, early SET's, Leak's, and even Krell). I expected to dismiss the quad's quite quickly but with selected components they were extremely good and had tonal density and richness without compromising speed, dynamics and 'bite'.

Anyway moving on to the S2's. When I had the horns, they were easily persuaded to sound like a cheap PA system if they weren't fed with sympathetic sounds and this provoked the arrival of lots of stuff to experiment with and this included the S2's. I was moving on from Magneplanar's fed by Robertson 4010 amp (chosen in preference to a Krell KSA50 amongst others) and the voices and layering was for me very good with this set up (but compromised with scale, weight and ultimately dynamics) 'Memory Motel' by the Stones was awesome with the maggies !

Right S2's, well they came, they were heavy and this was late 92. I cannot remember explicitly but the S2's were more 'polite' then the S5's. The 'bite' and 'balls' on some of the jazz saxophone's was not conveyed with the same power from memory. Tonally I think (Not 100% sure here) the S2's were a little darker (something I usually like) but seemed a little more reserved and less dynamic. I do recall listening to a superb album by Wilber Du Parry 'that's a plenty' and the 'body', scale and sheer 'being there' was lost a little with the S2's. I did listen loud, especially after a few glasses of wine...

Another track by Sidney Bechet showed the same, you had to duck from the trumpets (in a good way) with the S5's, somehow there was a little restrain with the S2's. I could have happily lived with either, I did however feel the S5 was a little more dynamic, emotive and also a little 'thicker' in texture. By this I mean say brass instruments had weight, colour and 'edge' it was like a 'thicker' slice of cake, just as clear cut, more body and energy included in each slice. The S5's are a bit uneven from memory, but that's like the mid hump of early Linn's not accurate but I like it and maybe this inaccuracy pleased me a the time. If I wanted to pop a disc on like Natalie Merchant and want her to really live and breath her emotions it was the S5 over the S2 for me at that time with my system.
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 66
Post ID: 20370
Reply to: 20369
.....understandable.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, that all is understandable. S5 has ceramic magnet and driving it with SS amp and listening indifferent trivial pop music you shall appreciate it more.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 67
Post ID: 20371
Reply to: 20370
Musical taste
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,
I never drove the S5's with a SS amp by the way, I drove Maggies in the past with a SS amp and yes I do believe voice reproduction was very good on these speakers. Musical taste is subjective and I make no apologies for liking the Stones. I have a reasonable record collection, I could have picked another track indeed, the original CBS of Bob Dylan (Mono) I listened to as well on both drivers as well as a Thelonious Monk piece. I rarely listen to Classical btw

12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 68
Post ID: 20372
Reply to: 20371
The Vox Olympian listen
fiogf49gjkf0d
BTW you didn't comment on the LV Vox Olympians, I'd be interested to see your thoughts here
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 69
Post ID: 20373
Reply to: 20372
OK
fiogf49gjkf0d
The Olympians are OK, I told about them in Kitties go to London thread. From your explanation above I understood that you drove your s5 with Robertson, Krells etc… You still did not say how you you’re the S5.  If you insist that you never drove S5 with SS then you should otherwise your comparing S5 and S2 is not valid. If you read my site then you will see my past comments that ceramic magnets do work much better with SS amps. For sure it shall not be Krells or PP amps but anyhow…

Also, what I said has nothing to do with musical taste or with anything subjective. Please do not take it too personal but if you do not listen classical music and do not use you your audio to fulfill your objective in classical repertoire then it is too early for your to read this site, not to mention to post in here. You shall not be apologetic for liking what you like but it is not about your taste but about your understanding the goals and method of audio. Anyhow, I do not feel to continue this conversation.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 70
Post ID: 20374
Reply to: 20373
Open or Closed ?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Crikey,
I will take you up on not posting.... if that is your desire. I do hope you allow me a final post, shame I thought I'd stumbled across an interesting site, but no matter.
For clarity I did not drive either the S5 or S2 with a SS amp other than a quick try with a KSA 50, all other experiments were with valve. I had no expectations regarding the S2 or S5 and preferred the S5, hence I kept them and returned the S2's. The amps included a AudioNote Ongaku, a number or different preamps, AR SP10, SP6, SP8, Croft Micro, Audio innovations (I cant recall the series, but a number L1, L2 ?), border patrol, numerous step up transformers including a ludicrously expensive Audio Note. Numerous different cabling.
Clearly my opinions are of no relevance and having used Horns since 92 and still using a separate SS based biamped system which offers a different perspective, I also have a lot of irrelevant experience with Avant Garde as I know the UK importer very well and now use bespoke TRON amplification.
I'll wait until I listen to a lot of classical and look forward to being enlightened.
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 71
Post ID: 20375
Reply to: 20374
...different perspectives.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Come on, I do not prohibit you to post, do whatever you want. I just say that with objective to make you playback to play The Deep Purple you won’t find neither understanding what I am saying nor any common sense in audio generally. Yes, if you develop interest in classical music and will formulate for you’re a clear vision what/how you would like more or less civilized music to sound in your listening room then you will find a perspective to read this site.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 72
Post ID: 20376
Reply to: 20375
Preferences
fiogf49gjkf0d

I'm open to Classical, I have about 200 or so albums, I do like some pieces very much. I simply prefer jazz, blues, folk and male/female vocal on the main. I don't listen to rock at all, the horns are currently playing Charlie Haden (Jazz) as it happens. If you don't play vocal I think that's a shame. I'm sure your well tested Wagner tells you a lot and communicates with you. There is no difference IMO with my preference for Oscar Peterson and communication and indeed audio evaluation.
For me my HiFi has one job, and that's recreating the emotion and magic of the live event. I like most have to evaluate opinions for credibility and personal preferences on forums, as always there are posters with no substance and posters where the objective is different and hence the value is diluted. As I note accuracy and in many ways 'detail' for me are secondary, that may be different for classical. When I do play classical I want to dynamics and scale as if I'm near the front, right at the back is too distant to tug at my heart strings, your right on preferences.
What db level do you listen at ?
05-20-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 73
Post ID: 20855
Reply to: 19356
Olympian in Munich 2014
fiogf49gjkf0d
It got a good feedback...

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/67/674920.html


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 74
Post ID: 21439
Reply to: 11332
Vox Olympian review by Roy Gregory
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/living_voice_vox_olympian_vox_elysian.htm


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 75
Post ID: 21441
Reply to: 21439
LV or WE !
fiogf49gjkf0d
Glad they are well received 
I spent 3 days at the Munich show there were only two interesting rooms, the LV room (but for me the music was not something I enjoy, so I did find evaluation more difficult and shows are shows) and the star for me by some margin was the WE/Silbatone room. This was remarkable in every respect apart from accuracy in some areas, but with that level of scale, texture and dynamics everything else fell by the wayside as weak, unconvincing and uninvolving.....
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 76
Post ID: 21458
Reply to: 21439
I had tears in my eyes....
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/living_voice_vox_olympian_vox_elysian.htm


.... after reading his product placement.

These speakers rewrite the rules just as surely as they rearrange expectations. They are a wonder, a triumph and proof that life’s not fair.

Well, Gregory became one more of those countless morons after his work for Nordost Cables... that "review" is a nice example when the price tag is high enough you can get the praise of the month. Maybe Gregory smokes the same stuff Valin does, don't know, but when I listened to them in Munich I probably did listen to something completely different... :-)


Kind Regards
Stitch
01-03-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 81
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 77
Post ID: 21462
Reply to: 21458
Living Voice magic
fiogf49gjkf0d
Dear Stitch,
I don't know if you've heard that system or not. But it was absolutely perfect in Munich 2014.
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Armen
01-03-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 78
Post ID: 21463
Reply to: 21462
Joke of the Year?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 ArmAlex wrote:
Dear Stitch,
I don't know if you've heard that system or not. But it was absolutely perfect in Munich 2014.
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Armen

May I ask, what was perfect?
The Woodwork?
The price Tags?
The weather?
Come on, I've been there multiple times and when it is enough for you to rate such an expensive System with a female voice and one guitar in the Background, I can't take you serious. Sorry. I think, everyone has his own sonic Standard and I demand a "bit" more for such price. Maybe that System can do something, but in Munich it was just one more expensive Systems among others. And for pling-plang-plong music...I think, you can have that in every demo all over the world..And physical Presence...that is something different. At least for me.
At the end of Day I may quote a remarkable analysis of the modern business
 Romy the Cat wrote:

    
You know, in high-end audio industry hierarchy there are different functional roles. There are people who think that they "design" something. Then, at the lower scale, there are people who build something. Then there are people who market the built to public. Then there are people who move boxes with packaged built and distribute the boxes to the end users. Then there are people who go to the users listening rooms and trying to do something there, mostly upselling them for new carp. Then, in the progressively lower hierarchical scale, there are temporary people that some companies hire to parch the production wholes after some blabbering reviewer publishes their propaganda pamphlets. Then, at the even lower scale of worthiness, there are all of that audio reviewing, publishing, writing and the rest of audio human waste. Going lower in the industry hierarchy you can even see the internet yahoos who perform public on-line hara-kiri with the names of a favorite brand, hoping to find among audio hoodlums some full-of-sympathy soul mates and do not feel lonely in their own aimless audio misery. Then there are audio-uninformed secretaries who do corporate spreadsheets and wash cars of audio makers. Going even lower you can observe the rats and cockroaches that live in the building walls of the audio manufacturers. Then there is a Black Mold‎ in the basements of psychologically disturbed Morons who sitting in their basement closets soldering new great "audio" each Saturday.  Do you think that mold is the lowest thing in audio? Nope, *name of a Fan*, you are wrong, after the mold there is you. 
    
.... Then you will be ending with something more lucid, something like this: " Hello, my name is *name of a Fan*, I am not qualified to be a Moron, I am juts an Idiot who have no understanding neither audio or music and absolutely clueless what I am doing. However, my *whoever* told me to upload the following text and I love to do it even though I have no cerebral capacity to transposition the posted words into anything sensible". Well,*name of a Fan*, the job is well done. Welcome to the GSC! Do not be discourages. In a few month you might be qualified to be editor-in-chieff of a main audio publication… 
    
Rgs,   
Romy the Cat



Kind Regards
Stitch
01-04-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 81
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 79
Post ID: 21468
Reply to: 21463
LV sound
fiogf49gjkf0d
Stitch I can't understand why some people in this site are trying to be a mini Romy,you included. I read what Romy writes and you don't need to repeat it.It's very strange you KNOW what was playing in that particular room without being there. Anyhow I visited the room 4 or 5 times, classical music was being played and in two occasions Bartoli was singing Rossini if my memory is correct.I'm not a potential customer for that system nor I defended its price. What I say is the sound was absolutely good and way better from what was present over there. 




01-04-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
iWC Doppel
Posts 8
Joined on 12-13-2013

Post #: 80
Post ID: 21470
Reply to: 21468
The Industry
fiogf49gjkf0d
It was good at Munich, but for me assessment was difficult, I have heard them before at pre production spec and was mightily impressed. One thing was very clear to me at Munich was the issue with the industry, it's full of enthusiasts with personnel preferences that make equipment with low development budgets, limited experience and weak attempts regarding product differentiation. Then as many 'experts' criticising.....
One listen to the original WE system underlined the lack of real progress since then. It was the only system I wanted to listen to and had enthusiasm for tbh. 
At least the LV room was in the same ballpark 
Page 4 of 5 (81 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3 4 5 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1278123  12-06-2006
  »  New  The most interesting horn ideas to me so far..  Looking for best horn values...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  36745  04-30-2007
  »  New  Problems with horns: tweeters...  Re: HF “wildness”...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  141196  07-11-2004
  »  New  Srajan Ebaen and Juicy-Cooking Audio...  Srajan shall stay out of the restroom....  Audio News Forum     8  59632  08-07-2007
  »  New  Vitavox S2 coupling..  Adaptor thickness etc....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  56251  12-20-2008
  »  New  Vitavox S2 driver made in china..  What does it do right?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     36  184933  12-20-2006
  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  A typical convention......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     123  942272  07-16-2004
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619678  10-19-2006
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60745  08-30-2009
  »  New  Vox Olympian secrets unveiled..  Yes :)...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  9420  05-24-2017
  »  New  How difficult is it to achieve Vox Olympian sound..  Another soil might be ruined…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  8233  01-03-2018
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