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  »  New  Multi-amping crossovering...  No input capacitor......  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  52716  09-24-2010
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 41
Post ID: 8744
Reply to: 8738
... forgot to mention...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks for your comments, Roman.

You're someway right... Goto foolishness;-))) maybe... also Mingsu wrote he "never" saw such a (Keith's - or mine) way to use S-150 mid-low horn... everyone's - me too, also with some doubt - copycatting each other, or, simply and lazy, doing like everyone's doing.

Flat Earth syndrome;-)

... I forgot to mention the following: after some months I only used a passive 4-ways crossover with a single WE 300B, transformers-coupled, I returned to multiamping and active crossover.

Months ago I left the old Pioneer D-23 active crossover on a shelf, after a direct comparison passive/single-amping vs. active/multi-amping, because I found the passive x-over sound more relaxed and natural.

Some days ago, I re-installed the Goto CF-1 active crossover (fixed x-frequencies: 220/1000/5000 hz) with the full plethora of my amps: 2 x WE300B/Partridge tranformers on mid-high horn, 2 x WE300B7274B7311B transformers-coupled on mid-low, WE421A on high and Hiraga 20W Class A on bass.

More than fiddling, sweating, puffing on speakers positioning, I, sort of, rediscovered the plus and joys of active multiamping... yes, it's a mess of double ON/OFF procedure, quite boring, BUT I hear more fluidity and effortlessly in sound, less blurring on large scale music (orchestral, Miles', ECM, etc.) and more clarity on solo music (lute, viola da gamba, etc.).

Let's go ahead...

Cheers.


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 42
Post ID: 8745
Reply to: 8744
Ah ha, so it's 220hz
fiogf49gjkf0d
Some days ago, I re-installed the Goto CF-1 active crossover (fixed x-frequencies: 220/1000/5000 hz) with the full plethora of my amps....

I guess Goto's recommendation is to cross at 220hz then... although 300hz seems to sound better.

I haven't tried positioning S150 horn the way other goto users have done, but I'm keeping mine in a straight line. My goal is to put a 50hz-60hz straight ROUND horn on top shooting down from the "second floor" (you can see the 2nd floor from the previous pictures). And of course trash the 15" i'm using and replace with sealed subs.

Keith

11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 43
Post ID: 8747
Reply to: 8745
S150 horn crossover at 200Hz
fiogf49gjkf0d
The current suggestion from GOTO is to crossover at 200Hz with S150 horn.  Of course, you can crossover higher but what are you going to use to cover 220Hz down?  If you choose to use the bass horn, you do want to keep it crossover low.  In my experience, even with SG146LD4, the crossover should not higher than 200Hz which S150 will take over.  As I said, if you have the room by all means do everything by the book. If you do not have the room, you need to find way to comproise to fit.  I have spent a lot of time discuss with Mr. GOTO on the same subject and 200Hz is what he recommended for S150 + SG505TT.  Hope this help and good luck.  If you need help on the bass horn, email me.  I will be in Asia(HK and China) next month and will be glad to visit you if schedule allow.
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 8748
Reply to: 8745
Common sense horns without GOTOnization :-)
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Kcct82 wrote:
I know you're not a big fan of digital delay, but I'm using behringer DCX 2496 to make things easier... this way I get to keep all horn mouths on the same plane which avoids some reflections (from other horn mouths).

So, you use DCX 2496 for deals but not for crossovering and your crossovers are still on analog domain, right?

 Kcct82 wrote:

I don't know what the advantage would be, can you explain a little? Thanks

I do not have time now go into details but generally using horns like your wider and with more decoupling from back wall create many great advantages. One of the most prominent is a depth of imaging (not even depth geometrical but rather the “quality of death”), proper curvature of back image, more proper imaging allocation, proper spread of dynamics within imaging, minimization of loudspeaker-crosstalk and introduction more binaural effects into stereo reproduction, minimization of horn’s reentry colorations and  many others…

 twogoodears wrote:

... I forgot to mention the following: after some months I only used a passive 4-ways crossover with a single WE 300B, transformers-coupled, I returned to multiamping and active crossover.

Months ago I left the old Pioneer D-23 active crossover on a shelf, after a direct comparison passive/single-amping vs. active/multi-amping, because I found the passive x-over sound more relaxed and natural.

Some days ago, I re-installed the Goto CF-1 active crossover (fixed x-frequencies: 220/1000/5000 hz) with the full plethora of my amps: 2 x WE300B/Partridge tranformers on mid-high horn, 2 x WE300B7274B7311B transformers-coupled on mid-low, WE421A on high and Hiraga 20W Class A on bass.

More than fiddling, sweating, puffing on speakers positioning, I, sort of, rediscovered the plus and joys of active multiamping... yes, it's a mess of double ON/OFF procedure, quite boring, BUT I hear more fluidity and effortlessly in sound, less blurring on large scale music (orchestral, Miles', ECM, etc.) and more clarity on solo music (lute, viola da gamba, etc.).

If you have multi ways playback with 4 amps then there is more sophisticated way to drive the channels then active crossover or passive from one amp. I am taking about line-level passive – the way how it shell be done ultimately. With GOTO it might be complex as the most like would like to use high order crossovers for their drivers (another sores of GOTO foolishness). The high order might be also accomplish at line level (with greater difficulties though) but I do not buy the notion of high-order crossovering anyhow…

 Kcct82 wrote:
My goal is to put a 50hz-60hz straight ROUND horn on top shooting down from the "second floor" (you can see the 2nd floor from the previous pictures). And of course trash the 15" i'm using and replace with sealed subs.

Yep, the 50hz-60hz straight horn is the goal, isn’t it? Might I ask you what you feel that it needs to be invariably round horn? You do have the proper 150Hz horn at the bottom of your system and it will “ground” the upper-bass imaging to the vertical center. So, your 50hz horn most likely will be sharp-crossover at top knee. If so then roundness of this horn might be no justifiable from cost-per-transaction perspective.  I defiantly do not advocate rectangular horn over round horn but the rectangular bass horn do have own advantages: they sampler and might be positioned closer to MF, they might be better coupleable to boundaries, they require much less blood to make and to maintain them…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 45
Post ID: 8750
Reply to: 8748
GOTO recommend 1st order crossover
fiogf49gjkf0d
GOTO always recommend to use 1st order active crossover and 2nd order passive crossover. The reason to use 2nd order for passive crossover is to protect the driver.  Of course, the user can use whatever they like the best but the recommendation from GOTO is as above.
FYI - GOTO driver spec. for input is Max. 5W.
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 8751
Reply to: 8750
Ming, now “new” these GOTO views?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 MINGSU wrote:
GOTO always recommend to use 1st order active crossover and 2nd order passive crossover. The reason to use 2nd order for passive crossover is to protect the driver. Of course, the user can use whatever they like the best but the recommendation from GOTO is as above. FYI - GOTO driver spec. for input is Max. 5W.
Hm, interesting. A few years ago I spoke with a guy who posed himself as heavy GOTO/ALE user and he informed me that GOTO/ALE insist to use only 4th order crossovers with their drivers. Then I read the same in few other sources including their justification why they want 4th order. I always was laughing with their high-order crossovers logic, in fact their demands for 4th order was one of the reasons why I never tried GOTO/ALE 7-8 years back when I actively experimented with compression drivers – I just never thought that people so dumb and deaf up to the point that they can’t understand high-order crossover’s problems are tuned-enough to make good divers. Perhaps they changed their views and their ways during those years… The 5W power handling is good though…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 47
Post ID: 8752
Reply to: 8751
I knew who you are talking about
fiogf49gjkf0d

Mr. GOTO is a very shy person and does not want to force his view to others.  But when asked, he always gives his best answer from his experience.  When his customers want to try something different from his recommendation, he will encourage them to experience themselves and make judgement with their own ears.  As you know, people have different hearing and perspective on what they like to hear and what they prefer to hear.  As far as I know, Mr. GOTO has never recommended anything other than 1st order active and 2nd order passive.

11-09-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 48
Post ID: 8782
Reply to: 8748
Thanks for all the great suggestions
fiogf49gjkf0d
So, you use DCX 2496 for deals but not for crossovering and your crossovers are still on analog domain, right?

Romy, I do everything in the digital domain so I use DCX 2496 as my crossover as well (but analog SS pro amps). I know you're no big fan of digital crossovers, can you point to where I can study the advantage of passive crossovers over digital? I've only taken audio seriously a few years ago so I really don't know much... thanks.

I do not have time now go into details but generally using horns like your wider and with more decoupling from back wall create many great advantages. One of the most prominent is a depth of imaging (not even depth geometrical but rather the “quality of death”), proper curvature of back image, more proper imaging allocation, proper spread of dynamics within imaging, minimization of loudspeaker-crosstalk and introduction more binaural effects into stereo reproduction, minimization of horn’s reentry colorations and  many others…

Thanks, that's enough reasons for me to have to try it out

Yep, the 50hz-60hz straight horn is the goal, isn’t it? Might I ask you what you feel that it needs to be invariably round horn? You do have the proper 150Hz horn at the bottom of your system and it will “ground” the upper-bass imaging to the vertical center. So, your 50hz horn most likely will be sharp-crossover at top knee. If so then roundness of this horn might be no justifiable from cost-per-transaction perspective.  I defiantly do not advocate rectangular horn over round horn but the rectangular bass horn do have own advantages: they sampler and might be positioned closer to MF, they might be better coupleable to boundaries, they require much less blood to make and to maintain them…

Well... like I said above I don't understand much about audio/horns, but I was getting great results with round horns so I thought I'd do the same with 50hz horn. You're right that the 50hz horn will be "sharp-crossover at top knee" so perhaps I'll start another thread and discuss more about it when the time comes. (I have a +10db gain at 50hz due to left/right walls being 21'8" apart I'm hoping that somehow I can use that to an advantage when I make the horns.)

Keith

 
11-09-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 49
Post ID: 8783
Reply to: 8750
Nice to have you on this thread
fiogf49gjkf0d
MingSu

Thanks for all the info, you're definitely providing some long awaited for answers for us english speaking Goto users. I've started a thread about Goto's 8" woofer on this site, perhaps you can go over there and give us some info...

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=8695#8695

Thanks

Keith
11-09-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 50
Post ID: 8787
Reply to: 8783
Sure...more talk about GOTO
fiogf49gjkf0d
Keith,

Any chance that I can visit you to hear your system?  I will be glad to answer any of your GOTO question.

Ming
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 11527
Reply to: 8048
3 whys: SG370, SG370DX, SG37FRP…
fiogf49gjkf0d
Twogoodears,  MINGSU or whoever else why know, I have a question to ask

As I understand GOTO use mostly titanium diaphragms but they calm them by plastic surround. This FRP technology the used nowadays in all GOTO form from Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. Since I have opportunity now to try on my own GOTO mid range driver I wonder what is the difference between SG370, SG370DX and SG37FRP drivers. Also, realistically, how high the 37-370 drivers might go up in fast opening horn? GOTO claims 10K, people claim 8K, I do not believe both of them and looking at the 37-370 drivers contraction I do not know why they shall stop at 8K. Is it is regulated by diaphragm then are any options to deal with this fast tolling diaphragm?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 52
Post ID: 11528
Reply to: 11527
Goto mid hi summary
fiogf49gjkf0d
SGSG-37FRP (designed for mid-high ranges in a smaller system). 56,000 yen
Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 10kHz,  " optimal crossover is 500Hz or more" 110dB, 18,500 gauss   

SG-370 (designed for the mid-high ranges of four ways). 148,000 yen
Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 18kHz, "optimal crossover is 500Hz - 5kHz," 116dB, 23,000 gauss

SG-370DX (for the mid-high ranges of four ways; titanium diaphragm). 258,000 yen
Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 20kHz, "optimal crossover is 500Hz - 5kHz," 116dB, 24,000 gauss   

SG-370BL (for the mid-high ranges of four ways; beryllium diaphragm version with above motor). 350,000 yen  

http://audio-database.com/GOTO%20UNIT/unit/index.html 
goto recommends using their tweeter (e.g. SG160), and bringing in @ "5kHz (or more, depending on...)."  
thus the lower crossover recommendations for the mid-high driver. 

that said, I have listened to SG-370, with the top run wide open, and a ribbon crossed @ 10kHz, 1st order, and heard no signs of distress. 

Robert

I know nothing

08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 11530
Reply to: 11528
The Goto’s strangeness…
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hm,

SGSG-37FRP, Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 10kHz, 18,500 gauss   
SG-370, Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 18kHz, 23,000 gauss
SG-370DX, Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 20kHz, 24,000 gauss   

Inversing, they build up magnetic density and extend HF. It is a legitimate way to do the things, but there is a catch in it.  If they use the same cone same magnetic stricture and the difference is only in the amount of magnet that they piled up then what did they do with changing of Q of the cone? Rising magnetic force from 1.8T to 2.4T would severely over-damp the lower knee of the driver making the harmonics inappropriately rapidly deflating.  The way to deal with is it to use different (softer) suspension but I never heard GOTO users ever mention the existence of different diaphragms.  So, I wonder are SGSG-37FRP, SG-370 and SG-370DX use the same diaphragms?

Also, what do they mean: Driver frequency band: 400Hz - 20kHz but optimal crossover is 500Hz - 5kHz? Is it their desire to sell one mode driver from 5kHz and up or is it their admission that those driver do not sound well over 5kHz. Frankly I feel that what GOTO say is BS as looking at the phase pas on the SG-370 it shall go VERY much higher than 5kHz. To make a titanium cones to have 5kHz a phase plug might not even need to be there. Strange…

robert, when you listened to SG-370, with the top run wide open than did you try to disconnect the ribbon twee and to list just one GOTO driver atop. If you did then can you comment on it? Also, you said that the ribbon was crossed @10kHz, 1st order. This is a use of ribbon as essentially a MF driver. This raises many questions… It would be interesting to interview the person who made those decisions…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 54
Post ID: 11531
Reply to: 11530
Goto unknowns...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ok; there's a mis-print somewhere, or a manufacturing change... 
The web site linked listed SG-370 as 23,000 gauss, and SG-370DX as 24,000 gauss. 
The goto brochure lists SG-370 as 24,000 gauss. 
And was discussed yesterday w/ someone, one doesn't really know what magnetic strength is unless you measure it. 
(after measuring several other make drivers, and finding them to be a ways off from listed specs...)  

I did take the 370 apart inspect & measure the diaphram and surround, but have not seen the insides of a SG-370DX. 

Yes, the drivers sound good way above 5kHz.  
I liked them to 10kHz. 
I believe they want to sell their tweeters crossed at 5kHz.

I did not want to run the ribbon clear down as low as 5kHz. 
10kHz was as low as I ran it, also tried ~12kHz and ~14kHz. 
I liked the ribbon @ ~12kHz best, in that trial, but didn't spend a lot of time with the two together. 

Yes, actually I spent more time listening to the 370 alone, without anyother driver supplementing the topend, and without any (low-pass) cutting off the topend. 
I don't recall any high frequency distortion, like break-up.  I thought the surround went a long way to damping the nastyness often found in titanium diaphgrams, and that it did remain a very detailed, resolving driver.  e.g. listening to individual strings in the orchestra, or what I thought it did really well was the upper register of piano.  The percussive element of the hammer-fall, and the harmonics of the notes when listening at first, then music... 
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 11532
Reply to: 11531
Goto honeymoon night? Worth it?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks, serenechaos.
 
I have a 37FRP is looks like falling on my laps, OK, I made it falling on my laps. It is as I understand the slowest GOTO MF. What I am interested is to see if GOTO will be able to add any value beyond where I am with my Vitavox S2. It might be interesting to try the 37FRP, particularly in context of the flexibility with output tube I have now with my MF DH Milq channel.  I selected the37FRP as it has identical to my S2’s amount of flux and sensitivity.  I have to admit, and I have expressed this sentiment, that I am very much not at ease with GOTO specification and I found it contradictive and almost like it was written by absolutely ignorant people, so I presume it might be anything….

I do have very high convince and you look like are conforming it that GOTO will not have “titanium nastiness”, I never hear it with GOTO and looks like people never report on it – this is what the plastic surround is for. What however is very interesting is HOW MUCH the damping will be tolerated with increase of amp idling and what will be with tone of the driver?  From my limited experience GOTO did not strike me as very tone-able driver but rather as very “accurate” and “smartly-restrained” driver. But never had GOTO drivers on my own possession and never experimented with them personally, so it might be fun to try them now, what all elements of my playback are well defined.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 56
Post ID: 11536
Reply to: 11532
GOTO high mid range driver
fiogf49gjkf0d
The 37 is 20 year old model and it is not in production anymore.  The current production model for export market are 370(110dB), 370DX(113dB), 3880S(116dB).
The driver spec. is 400Hz to 18kHz but the recommended crossover range is 1kHz-5kHz with S600 horn or 1kHz - 6kHz with S800 horn.  Yes.  GOTO design and produce their driver to reproduce "accurate" sound.  Do not want to add any "driver" sound to the music. 

Ming Su
http://www.goto-unit.com
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 57
Post ID: 11537
Reply to: 11536
Goto vs. Goto?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 MINGSU wrote:
The 37 is 20 year old model and it is not in production anymore.  The current production model for export market are 370(110dB), 370DX(113dB), 3880S(116dB).
The driver spec. is 400Hz to 18kHz but the recommended crossover range is 1kHz-5kHz with S600 horn or 1kHz - 6kHz with S800 horn. 
  Ming, thanks.

Might I ask you: besides the fact that 37 are not longer in production anymore, are any other design attributes that you can name the make 37 different from 370? Well, I understand a few out of more magnet part – Altec did the same with 806 and 808 drivers (those that have no more than 5% price different if the 808 do not use symphonic cones). So, is anything besides of that? Are they use the same cones? Do you know any sonic differences, if any, between 37 and 370? GOTO said that 37FRP designed for mid-high ranges in a smaller system. However, the smaller system imps less driver and each of the driver meant to be used in wider range – so the 37FRP shall be more universal driver then the narrow-bandwidth meant to be use later drivers, am I right?

Also, my interest in 37FRP was pretty much because it is no current production. It is a driver from 70s, so it is not “ 20 year old” but thanks got 40 years old. You see, 40 years in a history of a Hi-Fi company is 2-3 generations. What Goto was found in 60 I believe I very much doubt that Mr. Goto was 20 year old man and I am very certain the he is not around anymore, at least he is not involve in production. I know very little about the Goto company but I know a LAT about AMNY other Hi-Fi companies and I know that practically all of them years ago made better products. In fact I am an author of a very elegant theory according to which any Hi-Fi company within 4 year is get converted into shit by the industry influence,  butt is another subject.

So, if to accept a premise that that all Hi-Fi companies soon of later produce shit then why do you feel Goto Company does not expose to this tendency. Frankly, my interests in 37FRP were exactly because it is 40 year old driver. So amt is your objections to the 40 year old Goto design of sound?

 MINGSU wrote:
Yes.  GOTO design and produce their driver to reproduce "accurate" sound.  Do not want to add any "driver" sound to the music. 
   Well, first of all, whatever Goto, or any other drivers do has absolutely nothing to do with music, let keep this phraseology out of my site and preserve it for Stereophile level, at least do not use it with me as it sound to ridicules. Second, the "accurate" sound itself is not an inspiration itself – there are many other things that shall be taken under consideration. The Cat



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
MINGSU
Posts 28
Joined on 11-22-2007

Post #: 58
Post ID: 11539
Reply to: 11537
What is wrong with being accurate sound?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,

GOTO do not release techinical information about their driver.  If you have specific question, email me and I will be glad to forward your question to GOTO.   It will take a while but most of time they will try their best to answer. 

That is great that you now have a pair of GOTO driver.  Since they are very old pair of driver, I will recommend you to send them to GOTO Japan to make sure the driver are up to the spec. so you can be sure of your evaluation of GOTO driver. 

A perfect transducer should accurate reproduce the input signal.  Whatever, one input to a speaker driver, it should reproduce the same ( or music, in my view, because I do not listen to signal thru. my system.  I listen to music. Sorry, I cannot find other word other than "music".)

The only way to compare the different GOTO driver model is to get them and listen to them in your own system but make sure all drivers are up to spec. and in perfect working condition.

Ming
08-24-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 59
Post ID: 11542
Reply to: 11539
Why care about the specifications as Goto understands it!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 MINGSU wrote:
Since they are very old pair of driver, I will recommend you to send them to GOTO Japan to make sure the driver are up to the spec. so you can be sure …. 

Ok, but then they need to send them to me then in order I inform them if their “specifications” have any rational and any relativity to actual Sound. A company that for years was not able to publish about own products information that would be making a common sense need to do better in order to win my credibility and trustworthiness.
 MINGSU wrote:
A perfect transducer should accurate reproduce the input signal.  Whatever, one input to a speaker driver, it should reproduce the same …
It is incorrect. The input signal? What is it?
 MINGSU wrote:
The only way to compare the different GOTO driver model is to get them and listen to them in your own system but make sure all drivers are up to spec. and in perfect working condition.
I agree, to get the sound of the drivers is possible to listen to them in your own system, with accordance with own demand. I am not sure why you stress the subject of specifications with drivers. If a coil is not burned and was not overheated then it is very difficult to make a driver not easily fixable. Drivers are very simple and with all my modesty I feel that I might know about compression drivers more then GOTO will be able to handle. But I ma known to be a humble pussy…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-27-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 60
Post ID: 11563
Reply to: 11542
Old Goto's drivers vs. newer, current production
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Roman!

So, an SG-37FRP finally dropped on yr. laps;-) - glad it happened: not because you're now part of an Olympus-like lobby, but because you'll be able to judge with yr. own ears, much, MUCH better than theorically speculating on this or that...

It's not the best (or most expensive) speaker in the world, but - I hope you'll agree - it's extremely transparent and sensitive, without loosing that sense of easy, airy character, quite rare.

Quoting from a previous post of mine:

"Returning to Goto: when I quoted the between 7 and 10 years age of my second-hand drivers, I meant to point out they're not the huge, super-expensive, tycoon-type drivers someone own, BUT, nonetheless, were still manufactured in small batches when Seja Goto himself was still in the workshop.

Me too I own Westrex' and RCA's drivers and speakers which are 50 or 60 years old, and didn't suffered any flux loss...

JBL or Altec or...: Romy - an example I wish to tell you is that when I did some testing and listening, what I remember clearly was the hiss coming from high and mid-high drivers... to my surprise, while the hiss from, say, a JBL 2420 with barrier/sliced short horn and lens was like "fffffffffssffffff", quite grainy -  the very same hiss, say from interstation FM or tape or phono without disc playing was a feeble, clear "sssssssssssssss" on high and "ssshhhhhhhhhh" on mid-high, quite different from the thicker, less mellow JBL's."
Also Altec's (288-C, in my experiece...) sounded dull when directly compared vs. SG-37FRP... I read somewhere that Japanese people has "different" ear shapes, and love high frequencies... so ALL cartridges and speakers from Japan "should" have a tilted up high frequencies character!!! Yep: isn't this a form of audio/musical racism;-)!?!?

I'll soon be in Japan for two weeks visiting some people I know there, who owns nice horns systems, ALE's, Audio Tekne (based on ALE's drivers with carbon-block/graphite enclosures) and Goto, as well... my experience, owning several handmade cartridges and a full set of Goto's drivers and horns proves the above to be simply untrue and offensive to the great love for audio and music of the average japanese MJ/stereo Sound reader.

I'm sure - and I'll sincerely report in the next weeks in my Blog - about my audio/musical experiences... which I expect to be VERY interesting.

Returning to Goto's... Roman: the single digits power handing of most of Goto's drivers isn't a snobbish, conservative data... I always read this feature as something which CLEARLY take the distances to the cinema/theater drivers, industrial designs, where the subtleties in music and details retrival is simply a secondary feature.

When inspecting a Goto or ALE driver's diaphragm vs. ALTEC/JBL's you INSTANTLY understand they are two different breeds.

Horns drivers from home listening are, must be differently built from industrial/P.A. drivers, period.

As I often say, everything sound, also the el cheapo transistor radio with its 3 cm diam. speaker... how this or that sounds is paramount and to accomplished only through direct experiencing and comparisons.

Good luck with yr. newly acquired green-bodied toy and keep us posted.   
 


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
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