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   Home » Didital Things » Windows Based Transport: A quiet and capable Source? (48 posts, 3 pages)
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  »  New  Memory Player Box?..  Maybe I will not order the Pure Teflon capacitors after...  Didital Things  Forum     2  31043  11-03-2011
  »  New  High Quality Music Server / CD player..  EAC, CD/DVD drive...  Didital Things  Forum     165  658239  09-14-2008
11-03-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
item
Posts 14
Joined on 11-02-2011

Post #: 41
Post ID: 17323
Reply to: 17322
Mmmm . . . experiment
fiogf49gjkf0d
A fine experiment to try . . . can I suggest a checksum as well as an audition? It's not an entirely fair fight, though . . . the ripper has the luxury of time and verification.
04-11-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 42
Post ID: 24801
Reply to: 17323
Ripping a CD
if ripping data is different to CD Transport streaming data then no audio files could sound better than CD Transport.I found no useful data to explain me why ripping by computer CD Rom could not get all stored data from CD!
04-11-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 43
Post ID: 24802
Reply to: 24801
Capture Transport Data by PC
I can not convince myself that "Transport reads data as apple and CD rom reads data as orange". if I have seen this claim in another forum then I could not believe it .
we know EAC and dbpoweramp and other secure audio cd ripping softwares have CRC codes.if you (and other people across the world) rip Pink Floyd album with dbpoweramp then you will find over 10000 people around the world ripped that album with exact the same CRC codes.it means the ripped files is exactly the same over the world because all CRC codes are equal.
if we believe cdplayer read different then we should believe Sony/philips do not let cd roms to decode audio perfectly. I think it is possible but I hardly believe it.
the only way to find the trust is to connecting CEC TL0-X output to PC and capture incoming data and storing in wav format then comparing it with ripped wav file.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kees_Schouhamer_Immink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio


"The Red Book specifies the physical parameters and properties of the CD, the optical "stylus" parameters, deviations and error rate, modulation system (eight-to-fourteen modulation, EFM) and error correction facility (cross-interleaved Reed–Solomon coding, CIRC), and the eight subcode channels. These parameters are common to all compact discs and used by all logical formats, such as CD-ROM.  "
04-11-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,144
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 44
Post ID: 24803
Reply to: 24802
"Digital Sound"
Amir, I am a long way from understanding the digital audio chains or how they interact, and how each transition affects sound I can get at home.  The biggest reason I have only "invested" in CD so far is because this has been the only digital source I have heard "promising" sound from.  I look forward to hearing good music from streaming sources, and I will also share here if it ever happens.


Best regards,
Paul S
08-13-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 45
Post ID: 25037
Reply to: 17295
CRC Code
 Romy the Cat wrote:
fiogf49gjkf0dItem,

you are not getting the point that ripping implied the initial read of CD by CD-ROM drive and their possess looks like kills the quality of the file you made on your “super PC”. If you imply that your PC plays a file that was not made from the same CD then you compare apples and oranges. Making claims that “well-designed PC transport is better than a good CD transport” is a ridicules claim if your CD-ROM and your CD transport use different source. Again take the same CD, play it at your CD passport. Then rip the same CD to your super-duper PC and play it into the dame DAC. If you find that your PC outperform you CD transport then… trash your CD transport and get the one that sound better, not the one that your magazine editor told your that that it “sounds good”.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

if Ripped Files from CD Rom drives are not good (or they are not equal to uncompressed raw files) then why all ripped files have equal CRC Code?

This is the AIFF log file ripped by dbpoweramp :  
Encoder: AIFF 
Extraction Log--------------
Track 1:  Ripped LBA 0 to 22015 (4:53) in 1:56. Filename: /Volumes/Transcend/Buffer Rip 44 16/01  - Track 1.aif
  CRC32: 5F14D8A9     AccurateRip CRC: FD86ACBE (CRCv2)     [DiscID: 013-001d29a6-0123fc46-a00d770d-1]
08-14-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 46
Post ID: 25038
Reply to: 25037
Raw file Size vs Ripped Aiff file Size
un-compressed RAW file -> optical Disc -> Ripped File   

putting RAW files on optical Disc is a process (it may be lossy, I don't knowMark claims A disc containing 74 minutes and 33 seconds of music contains 6.3 billion bits. Of all those bits only 33% are audio bits, with the rest being overhead. )

Ripping optical Disc is a process (romy thinks it is lossy, I do not know)


un-compressed RAW file = pure PCM 44100/16bit

optical Disc Capacity is 74min for 44100/16bit

Ripped File Size (AIFF) is 74min for 44100/16bit


if RAW file Size is equal to Ripped File Size and they sound different then ripped file should be filled with un-correct data.if ripped files filled by un-correct data and all CRC codes are equal then CD-Roms all have equal reading mechanism but they could not read all data like CDplayers.it means CDplayers could read all data and cd-roms could not read all data and files on PC contain un-correct data.
I think we need a man describe it to us. I have found no information in internet.




I have emailed Gordon Rankin and he think AIFF is equal to Optical Disk Data :
"Not that I am going to read this because it's total BS, but they probably don't mention that they are using the same drives that are in computers and therefore have the worse problems reading on the fly compared to reading it more than ounce. "
08-15-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 47
Post ID: 25039
Reply to: 25038
65min Audio Data and 74 min Audio Data plus Other Codes
https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_techinfo.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM
Facts:
  • One sector holds 2352 bytes of AUDIO.
  • The DATA Transfer-rate
=
=
=
=
sampling rate * channels * audio bitsize
44100 * 2 (stereo) * 16 (16 bit) bits/second
1411200 bits/second
176400 bytes/second
Sector Transfer rate
=
=
176400/2352 sectors/second
75 sectors/second
1 MByte AUDIO    
=
=
=
1048576 bytes
1048576/2352 sectors
446 sectors
333000 sectors 
=
=
=
=
333000/75 seconds
4440 seconds
4440/60 minutes
74 minutes
333000 sectors 
=
=
333000/446 Mbytes AUDIO
747 Mbytes AUDIO

The reason why an AUDIO CD  holds more data/sector lays in the fact that it uses the complete 2352 bytes to store AUDIO in one sector. This means that an Audio-Byte is per default corrupt as there is no CRC checking. Due to hardware datacorrection these errors are not heard.

This method can not be used for a Data-Bytes as the data would be corrupt. To fix this problem a DATA sector contains both Data and CRC-CCITT Information.

CRC-CCITT is a 16 bit EDC (Error Detecting Code). For every byte of data a 16 bit CRC code is calculated, resulting in 128 CRCs, 16 bits each. These CRCs, therefore, take up 256 bytes of the 2352 bytes available. The remaining 48 bytes are reserved for future use. This leaves 2048 bytes available for actual Data.





It seems 65min of 74min is audio data (2048 bytes of 2352) . the only thing could convince me the ripped audio data is not equal to optical disk is that cd rom could not read correct data and cdplayer could do that.

08-19-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 48
Post ID: 25040
Reply to: 25039
DAE Firmware quality
I have find not all CD Roms have equal firmware to read audio data. some firmwares do not report errors correctly .http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/other-projects/dae-quality/
it seems ripping could give us 100% correct data  if we have a good firmware but I do not know which cd-rom drives have those good firmwares.

  
   
Page 3 of 3 (48 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Memory Player Box?..  Maybe I will not order the Pure Teflon capacitors after...  Didital Things  Forum     2  31043  11-03-2011
  »  New  High Quality Music Server / CD player..  EAC, CD/DVD drive...  Didital Things  Forum     165  658239  09-14-2008
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