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02-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 381
Post ID: 15649
Reply to: 15001
Y0-186 in winter.
fiogf49gjkf0d
The Y0-186 is still pleasing me with it’s spicy marinated sound. I woke up this morning, it is snowing again and I started my day with ritual Sunday morning Bach. This time the turn for Christophe Rousset and The Academy of Ancient Music conducted by Christopher Hogwood. I am not a huge fun of what Rousset does and it appears to me that he played a wrong instilment but the Academy of Ancient Music is wonderful indeed.

While I was enjoying my room waling up I come to the reallocation that this snowy landscapes outside is very mommy for my Y0-186, it is freaking Siberia out there….

Both Y0-186 is running fine since the day of insertion and both are firm at 38mA.  This is relatively relaxed mode for them and I wonder how long one pair will last, I estimate 5-10 years with my heavy use, but we will see.

The tube on the picture is on but the light outside does not make the heaters to be see lit. While I was making a picture I was thinking about the Rachmaninoff’s Piano Consertos second movements – it shall be something very Russian played at this weather. Well, perhaps I am too long live in US, and in fact I have seen in Boston more snow then I even seen it in Russia. So, let stay with Bach…. and with Y0-186..

Y0186_Winter.JPG

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-28-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 382
Post ID: 15657
Reply to: 15649
Y0-186 sounds like…
fiogf49gjkf0d
Actually I have found a perfect association how to describe the Y0-186 sound, it sound like dill herb.

This might explain my love to Y0-186 as dill is one of the most beloved smalls and taste. A combination of dill and garlic is a magic small that would make me to each anything that has it. You can sprinkle shit with dill and garlic and I will find it a supreme delicacy. Yes, the Dill small is the very right explanation of the Y0-186 sound…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 383
Post ID: 15902
Reply to: 15657
Rethinking the YO186 tube.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Last night I was listening  Zubin Mehta’s recording of Bruckner’s Symphony No.9. It was his first recoding from 1966 with Vienna. I am not a big fun of this performance all together but it has spectacular first movement. It played superbly slow and superbly soft. Wiener Philharmoniker showed off so fantastics colors that it almost like looking into a sonic kaleidoscope. I played this movement a lot and I feel my record surface is not good anymore but still the first movement sound good. The way how London recorded the play is a bit bass shy and the orchestra does not have that Bruckner’s crash, still not a lot of people have balls to play Bruckner’s 9 so gloriously lush…

So, why I was listening my playback it mentally noted some predictably of its Sound. It is not that I did not see it before but lately it becomes a bit more forward presentable. What happened lately was elimination a reference to ground and running my playback in the way how I use to run it in my old room – with floating ground after the PP2000. This did add some upper MF clarity and made my MF a bit too much.
 
Too much of what?  This is a complicated question.  Surely it is not about amplitude – running DSET I can moderate MF as much as I want. It is not about color. The YO186 has wonderful colors and it might not be such a thing and too many colors if tube is chromatically neutral. What YO186 has is a very special and in a way unique throaty character that makes most of the recording to sound better than they are. It might be called a very minor touch of hoarseness or even roughness but very delicate and very sophisticated. Still, with some recording this characteristic become a bit more recognizable then I would like it be. I think this characteristic might be moderated by driving the tube harder.  It is 12W tube and I drive it at near 8W. However, in my MF- DSET direct-coupled application and with 410V max I have no ways to drive the plate at 10-12W.

So, for now I pulled my YO186 out and put in type 45 tube.  I think they sound better than any other expensive 2.5V and 4V tubes I have. To change tube in MF Milq is very simple and thanks God I did two tube socket with 2.5V for 2A3/45 and alike and 4V for PX4/RE604 and alike.  I will play the type 45 for a while, while I test the YO186 – perhaps it just died… I like the type 45 as it is super clean. I kind of miss the YO186’s very fine feeling of texture but I might find some ways to get it. It is for sure another flavor of sound and strings become less “complex” but less “problematic” at the same time. The type 45 has for sure less or no own colorations of any kind I will let it play for a while and let see where it will lend me. 

The Cat 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 384
Post ID: 15906
Reply to: 15902
In My Dreams
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am sad that it wll be a long time, if ever, that I get to use a 45.  I love the pristine clarity and life-like sense of immediacy.  I even love what little "bass" and "HF" it does.  Too bad it has no "grunt", whatsoever.  IMO, close to "perfect', within its serious constraints.

Best regards,
Paul
03-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 385
Post ID: 15907
Reply to: 15906
Grunt from type 45? A ridicules comment.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
Too bad it has no "grunt", whatsoever.

I wonder why someone would blame type 45 tubes in lucking of grunt sound. This is 1.5W-2W that by the size of plate intends to be in HF DSET only.  Are you driving you 15” woofer from type 45 and you accuse you that type 45 has no "grunt". Why don’t you accuse the world–class female gymnasts that they can’t bench press 1000 pounds?  A ridicules comment!
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 386
Post ID: 15911
Reply to: 15907
Blame?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Perhaps more like sour grapes.  I would have to totally re-think my system in order to use it. And maybe I have somehow "idealized" the 45 because it is "just out of reach" for me?  In any case, good for you.  It will be interesting to read of your impressions with HF-only DSET.  Again, I think it is great for MF, as well, within its limitations.

Best regards,
Paul S
04-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 387
Post ID: 15918
Reply to: 15902
When good is not good enough.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Last night I was listening  Zubin Mehta’s recording of Bruckner’s Symphony No.9. It was his first recoding from 1966 with Vienna. I am not a big fun of this performance all together but it has spectacular first movement. It played superbly slow and superbly soft. Wiener Philharmoniker showed off so fantastics colors that it almost like looking into a sonic kaleidoscope. I played this movement a lot and I feel my record surface is not good anymore but still the first movement sound good. The way how London recorded the play is a bit bass shy and the orchestra does not have that Bruckner’s crash, still not a lot of people have balls to play Bruckner’s 9 so gloriously lush…

So, why I was listening my playback it mentally noted some predictably of its Sound. It is not that I did not see it before but lately it becomes a bit more forward presentable. What happened lately was elimination a reference to ground and running my playback in the way how I use to run it in my old room – with floating ground after the PP2000. This did add some upper MF clarity and made my MF a bit too much.
 
Too much of what?  This is a complicated question.  Surely it is not about amplitude – running DSET I can moderate MF as much as I want. It is not about color. The YO186 has wonderful colors and it might not be such a thing and too many colors if tube is chromatically neutral. What YO186 has is a very special and in a way unique throaty character that makes most of the recording to sound better than they are. It might be called a very minor touch of hoarseness or even roughness but very delicate and very sophisticated. Still, with some recording this characteristic become a bit more recognizable then I would like it be. I think this characteristic might be moderated by driving the tube harder.  It is 12W tube and I drive it at near 8W. However, in my MF- DSET direct-coupled application and with 410V max I have no ways to drive the plate at 10-12W.

So, for now I pulled my YO186 out and put in type 45 tube.  I think they sound better than any other expensive 2.5V and 4V tubes I have. To change tube in MF Milq is very simple and thanks God I did two tube socket with 2.5V for 2A3/45 and alike and 4V for PX4/RE604 and alike.  I will play the type 45 for a while, while I test the YO186 – perhaps it just died… I like the type 45 as it is super clean. I kind of miss the YO186’s very fine feeling of texture but I might find some ways to get it. It is for sure another flavor of sound and strings become less “complex” but less “problematic” at the same time. The type 45 has for sure less or no own colorations of any kind I will let it play for a while and let see where it will lend me.


I was listening and listening my playback with type 45 tube drive my MF. It is a remarkable tube and sound is truly spectacular. Still something is missing. It is hard to explain what it is. It is not sound – sonically I love the tube. It is some surreal sense of magic that this tube looks like does not serve in my playback. It gives a phenomenal sound, it super clean, colorful and I would say that it even more dynamic then “average” tube.  But “magic” is not there.

I have in music many reference points that I call “Transcendent Moments”. They are not the moment of beauty but rather combinations of beauty and misery of such caliber that you wonder how humans were able to create it – God must be at his day off when they did it. For years, besides chasing Sounds and writing about it at this stupid forum I have another reference in my playback – how high magnitude of my reference “Transcendent Moments” my playback can throw.  The better playback I have the more magic, mysterious, mystifying and the more fantasy stimulating my “Transcendent Moments” are. So, the type 45 tube at my MF, although it doe wonderfully sound it at the same time it also greatly reduces the bewildering effect of my Transcendent Moments. The YO186 was uncontested kink from that perspective.

For instance the very opening phrase in Adagio from Dvorak 8th Symphony is one of my Transcendent Moments. The same phrase use by Tchaikovsky in his 1812 overture, eight years before Dvorak but Tchaikovsky went to nowhere with it. Dvorak did with it something magnificent, bringing the phrase to the realm of unresolved childhood fantasy. Being properly played this, a few second-long fragment, is absolutely sufficient to me to tell about playback more than I need to know. The type 45 tube just convert my entering to Adagio into nothing special, absolutely diluting all “unexplained” magic from the music. Bad, bad, bad tube…. :-(

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 388
Post ID: 15919
Reply to: 15918
45s, Drivers, and 45s
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy, can you tell at this point if the driver, operating points, or the particular 45s are "at fault" here, and/or all are in sync?  The only "magic" I noticed from the few 45s I have heard (but not seriously played with...) was the uncanny sense of "real" sound across its useable range.  I have to say, I actually "like" what I perceive as the "neutral" character of that tube.  Few seem to get what I hear as an amazing ability to get out of its own way; but I have long thought the tube has been widely mis-used; and certainly so in my own case.

Also, there are 45s and 45s.  I understand that some of the new ones were "redesigned" to push and be pushed harder than the "sought-after" NOS.  I think there are already several posts about it on this site.

Not selling the 45; just curious.

Best Regards,
Paul

04-02-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 389
Post ID: 15922
Reply to: 15918
Hm, that was so simple after all!
fiogf49gjkf0d

I put the YO186 back to the use. The sound was fine but it had that a fine over glow of spoiled fall colors that I described before. It was not disgusting, in fact pleasurable but a bit too much.

Then I asked to myself what happen and why this effect shown only last week. A week ago I freed up the playback ground, letting it to float, and felt that it cleaned up my MF very nicely. So, why along with clearing up of MF I got deviation from chromatic neutrality. I was thinking, thinking, thinking and then it come to me that this a bit overly-sugary touch of Sound very reminds me the situation what my Injection Channel provide too much output.

Now, I do not play games with Injection Channel riding up and down – it set at very precise level, giving very accurate amount of specific colors to Macondo. Why the striping ground noise from MF would impact it? It shall be affected. Still, it is very easy to try and I dropped 2dB on the Reds’ outputs.  The sound instantly got fixed and not just fixed but become supper good. It has the new MF clarity but at the same time it has right, non-exaggerated chromatic density. Very, very nice.

Of cause next I grounded my playback with one single path. The colors got dropped immediately and I was forced to add more output from my Injection Channel to compensate it.

This is very interesting. For sure the ground of my amps does not affect output of my amps. However, it looks like with cleaner MF my YO186/S2 tandem has different tolerance or need for injections of colors. Still, my MF with floated ground is still benefited from my Injection by it looks like at 2-3dB less. I did a few adjustments of proper level of Injection with and without ground and the effect was very repeatable and predicable.

Very good. It looks like I have cranked this problem, even though I still have no explanation for it.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-22-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 390
Post ID: 18202
Reply to: 15649
How the YO186 was used.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Y0186_Winter.JPG

I received a link with description how the YO186 tube that drives my MF was used by Russians. In 30s and 40s it was used in portable film projectors PU-12 and PU-13. Below is the schematic of the PU-13 low frequency power amplifier.

YO_186_Amp_PP.JPG

As you can see it is absolutely nothing special and made to be super economic. A pair of YO186 in PP configuration sits at 270V, with 43V bias and 3.6V filament. That is interesting as they did not use 4V for whatever reason. The current is 2x55mA and they get around 4W of full power, claiming 4.5% distortion between 80Hz and 6000Hz. The amps has the upper frequency boost to deal with compensation of photo-element and as many of the amps of the period it use voltage drop across the speaker field-coil to bias the output stage. I am sure that admirers of “vintage sound” would jump out of skin to get this amp but I am with all confidence insist that it will sound like crap and I have no interests to hear it. Still, for historical perspective for the people who use YO186 it might be fan to see how it was used.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
floobydust


currently roaming the US
Posts 62
Joined on 01-19-2009

Post #: 391
Post ID: 18204
Reply to: 18202
What is old is new?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Hello Romy,

 Been a long time since I've been on the fora... too much real work, too much travel. Still, nice to see this particular thread resurrected. I'm interested to see if you have revisited the 45 since more than a year ago. I still run my 45 amps regularly when home... and they still deliver sonically. But would be interesting to know if you have done any additional listening and/or comparisons against the YO186.

 Regards, KM




... just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not after you ...
05-24-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 392
Post ID: 18205
Reply to: 18204
YO186 vs. type 45.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 floobydust wrote:
 Been a long time since I've been on the fora... too much real work, too much travel. Still, nice to see this particular thread resurrected. I'm interested to see if you have revisited the 45 since more than a year ago. I still run my 45 amps regularly when home... and they still deliver sonically. But would be interesting to know if you have done any additional listening and/or comparisons against the YO186.
 Nope, I did not do any additional listening/comparisons. Since I settled with YO186 I stopped to experiment with MF amp. I bought a few month ago a different version of Markoni PX4 but I did not even try it. My playback is in very stable shape and since the end of the last spring I did virtually nothing with it besides turning it on and off. I was mildly playing with electricity but the nucleus of the system is very much the same. It is not that YO186 is “best” tube – very far from that but in the way how it being used in my playback I am comfortable and I have no itch to change anything.

From what I remember type 45 type are much more cleaner sounding then my YO186 and they have upper end that can’t not even remotely be matched by YO186. The YO186 has significantly richer harmonics with truly stupendous lower range. Again, it is what the tubes do but the character of tube is not the sound we get in context of tailored playbacks. I am sure if I had objectives to make type 45 tube to sound in the similar way how YO186 sound then it might be possible but it would require very substantial modification of entire Milq/Macondo configuration.  I am obviously not going to do it, particularly since I am comfortable with sound now. I do have a few dozen type 45 and might go for them as my YO186 will be gone. Still, since I have the sockets for 2A3/45 and for 4V tube than I think it will be many other kinky contestants after my stash of YO186 will be gone. It does not mean that type 45 is a bad tube, it is just a bit too straight  and too undistorted tube to facilitate the sound I would like to get from my MF channel.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-18-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 393
Post ID: 19941
Reply to: 8932
The YO186 is gone.... :-(
fiogf49gjkf0d
After 5 years of using the YO186 for my MF channel I think I need to find a replacement for YO186 as I thin k the tube got used up. I feel that my MF does not have the color density as it use to have and some contrasts become in a way more subdued. This is uselessly the sign that the tube is gone. I need to learn how to test the YO186 as I do not have trusted way to test the DHT and I need to do some re-inventory of the Milq’s tubes. The 5 years from the tube? I thought it will last longer....


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-18-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 394
Post ID: 19942
Reply to: 19941
That sucks.
fiogf49gjkf0d
That sucks. I use to have a box of perhaps a dozen of YO186 but I did not see it for a while, pretty much from the time I moved to new house. I was listening today some of my “critical” reference stuff and concluded with very high certainty that my MF is gone, it just does not have the tonal yield that it use to have.

Well, the way how Milq is built is very simple to put in there any 45/2A3 or any 4V European tube, so I did today for a couple hours. To my disappointment I did not get the Sound that I was getting before. Other tubes give me very clean and very effective sound but none of them can do brass that my old YO186 was able to do.  I am looking for very specific portraying of brass micro- bubbling, of that super-granular, abrasive, coarse tonal texture, when overtones clash like waves during Nor'easter storm and harmonics have legs growing right from neck down. My other best tubes, including my best Nazi tubes, just do not got for that brass complexity and their brass sound more like string’s rosin bite. With YO186, when it was alive, brass was felid with zillion explosive micro-bubbles that make it immensely pleasurable and super fascinating to listen. When NDR Symphony unleash own brass in Bruckner it is no tomorrow in my playback without my YO186. I want my brass back, I want my YO186 back. I only hope that Amy did not learn how all those tubes cost and did not pound them in order to raise money to by her new cosmetics….

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 454
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 395
Post ID: 19951
Reply to: 19942
YO186
fiogf49gjkf0d
Somewhere earlier last year I searched for some tubes in ex-USSR and YO186 did pop up, esp. in Ucraine IIRC, with not
unbearable price ~$100/tube, although in unknown condition (I did not buy any).



Cheers,
Jarek
08-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 396
Post ID: 19952
Reply to: 19942
Hm, what the hell is going on?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
That sucks. I use to have a box of perhaps a dozen of YO186 but I did not see it for a while, pretty much from the time I moved to new house. I was listening today some of my “critical” reference stuff and concluded with very high certainty that my MF is gone, it just does not have the tonal yield that it use to have.

Well, the way how Milq is built is very simple to put in there any 45/2A3 or any 4V European tube, so I did today for a couple hours. To my disappointment I did not get the Sound that I was getting before. Other tubes give me very clean and very effective sound but none of them can do brass that my old YO186 was able to do.  I am looking for very specific portraying of brass micro- bubbling, of that super-granular, abrasive, coarse tonal texture, when overtones clash like waves during Nor'easter storm and harmonics have legs growing right from neck down. My other best tubes, including my best Nazi tubes, just do not got for that brass complexity and their brass sound more like string’s rosin bite. With YO186, when it was alive, brass was felid with zillion explosive micro-bubbles that make it immensely pleasurable and super fascinating to listen. When NDR Symphony unleash own brass in Bruckner it is no tomorrow in my playback without my YO186. I want my brass back, I want my YO186 back. I only hope that Amy did not learn how all those tubes cost and did not pound them in order to raise money to by her new cosmetics….

The caT

This nigh I made a very interesting discovery. It turned out that my YO186 tube did not dive. The sound from the midrange was too soft and not distinctive. I was experimenting with different tubes to substitute YO186 and while I did it I was following my Macondo calibration sheet. Thanks god I did it long time back and locked all outputs:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/MacondoCalibration.jpg
 
So, paling with all of it I realized that the acoustic output of my YO186 was dropped from reference 81dB to 78dB and 79dB. I have the “smart” attenuator in the secondary and I added volume to MF and hallelujah- the playback once again sounds just wonderfully!

However, this made me to think: how the hell my MF was able to lose around 3dB? The first blame would be for the demagnetization of drivers. I very much doubt that it might be the case. Drivers demagnetize with temperature, excessive power or DC. Neither is in presence. The drivers see high pass of 3kHz and around 400mV there is absolutely no power to demagnetize them.  Then I begin to blame the amp.
 
Well, the amp is not truly blamable. If the tube did get worn then the tube gain shall not change. The tube gain is the geometry of electrodes; the tube with lost cathode emission shall not loose gain. Something might get overheated in the amp with time and the amp might lose gain. I was looking and looking and thinking and thinking about the amp circuitry and I do not see anything that might be responsible for it.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/Melquiades_YO-186_Attenuation_revision.jpg

I was even thinking that the cleaning lady accidently did it but she prohibited to clean amps and thank God she does obey it. I still would like to know the answer how I lost my 3dB in both channels. I think it did happen during the last 2-3 months and that was when I begin to notice that my playback is slightly tonally softer and less articulate then what it used to be.
 
Rgs, the Cat
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 397
Post ID: 19955
Reply to: 19951
I do not think that anybody but me would like YO186
fiogf49gjkf0d
 N-set wrote:
Somewhere earlier last year I searched for some tubes in ex-USSR and YO186 did pop up, esp. in Ucraine IIRC, with not unbearable price ~$100/tube, although in unknown condition (I did not buy any).
Yes, I have seen the YO186 pup up here and there but I would not feel that a person who sells a single tube might be a good souse. If I buy it them I would buy from somebody who has a party of NOS tubes – that would be more or less some kind of assurance that the tubes were not used.

I do not think that anybody would be interested in YO186. In my case, in dace of DSET operation and in context of what I am trying to do with tone and balance of loading across the channels I find YO186 to be spectacular. For the most people who would use DHT in full range applications I do not fell that YO186 would be advantageous.

Anyhow, if somebody has a set of 6 or 8 YO186 for &100 then I would not mind to take them. After I find a dozen of the tube that I suppose to have somewhere I will be set for life.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 398
Post ID: 19975
Reply to: 19952
A hallucination?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 Romy the Cat wrote:
That sucks. I use to have a box of perhaps a dozen of YO186 but I did not see it for a while, pretty much from the time I moved to new house. I was listening today some of my “critical” reference stuff and concluded with very high certainty that my MF is gone, it just does not have the tonal yield that it use to have.

Well, the way how Milq is built is very simple to put in there any 45/2A3 or any 4V European tube, so I did today for a couple hours. To my disappointment I did not get the Sound that I was getting before. Other tubes give me very clean and very effective sound but none of them can do brass that my old YO186 was able to do.  I am looking for very specific portraying of brass micro- bubbling, of that super-granular, abrasive, coarse tonal texture, when overtones clash like waves during Nor'easter storm and harmonics have legs growing right from neck down. My other best tubes, including my best Nazi tubes, just do not got for that brass complexity and their brass sound more like string’s rosin bite. With YO186, when it was alive, brass was felid with zillion explosive micro-bubbles that make it immensely pleasurable and super fascinating to listen. When NDR Symphony unleash own brass in Bruckner it is no tomorrow in my playback without my YO186. I want my brass back, I want my YO186 back. I only hope that Amy did not learn how all those tubes cost and did not pound them in order to raise money to by her new cosmetics….

The caT


This nigh I made a very interesting discovery. It turned out that my YO186 tube did not dive. The sound from the midrange was too soft and not distinctive. I was experimenting with different tubes to substitute YO186 and while I did it I was following my Macondo calibration sheet. Thanks god I did it long time back and locked all outputs:


http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/MacondoCalibration.jpg

 
So, paling with all of it I realized that the acoustic output of my YO186 was dropped from reference 81dB to 78dB and 79dB. I have the “smart” attenuator in the secondary and I added volume to MF and hallelujah- the playback once again sounds just wonderfully!

However, this made me to think: how the hell my MF was able to lose around 3dB? The first blame would be for the demagnetization of drivers. I very much doubt that it might be the case. Drivers demagnetize with temperature, excessive power or DC. Neither is in presence. The drivers see high pass of 3kHz and around 400mV there is absolutely no power to demagnetize them.  Then I begin to blame the amp.
 
Well, the amp is not truly blamable. If the tube did get worn then the tube gain shall not change. The tube gain is the geometry of electrodes; the tube with lost cathode emission shall not loose gain. Something might get overheated in the amp with time and the amp might lose gain. I was looking and looking and thinking and thinking about the amp circuitry and I do not see anything that might be responsible for it.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/Melquiades_YO-186_Attenuation_revision.jpg

I was even thinking that the cleaning lady accidently did it but she prohibited to clean amps and thank God she does obey it. I still would like to know the answer how I lost my 3dB in both channels. I think it did happen during the last 2-3 months and that was when I begin to notice that my playback is slightly tonally softer and less articulate then what it used to be.
 
Rgs, the Cat
 

I was looking, looking, looking and looking in the circuit of my MF channel trying to figure out why the amp could lost its gain.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/Melquiades_YO-186_Attenuation_revision.jpg

The only idea that I might remotely embrace is that the plate current bypass cap of 2uF got overheat and raised it’s Equivalent Series Resistance. Then the signal current would go across and it might lead gain to drop. I was thinking about it so hard that last night I saw a dream that I was unconsciousnessly waking at night and while I was walking I in oblivion turned the amps gain. I woke up, said to myself that I turned into a complete idiot but then a strange thing happened: I begin to doubt if I did not do it.

Well, I need to make a break and to blame the cleaning lady in anything. The amps gain are calibrate now and they sound again spectacular, that is what important.  I would need to pay attention to it and check it more pereodicly. If it will never happen again then… is was night waking…

The Cat




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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