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  »  New  How to USE “Resonating Oops” in loudspeakers..  Injection?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     184  1239516  02-28-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  131645  07-12-2007
  »  New  Simpson Microphones thread...  A whole another subject....  Audio Discussions  Forum     45  268528  10-21-2007
  »  New  About TTH characteristic in Audio..  As a process...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  21016  11-15-2007
  »  New  The Absolute Sound of Audio Idiocy...  Different ways of listening...  Playback Listening  Forum     13  79520  08-06-2008
  »  New  It is about timbres, stupid...  It is about timbres, stupid....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  11925  02-23-2009
  »  New  Other Ways of getting Special Tone from a loudspeaker...  Paul S....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  71398  11-27-2009
  »  New  How to play Bruckner Sound in Audio...  Being a pedagogical geniuses…...  Playback Listening  Forum     16  89386  06-15-2010
  »  New  Rejection of non-natural sounds...  Another view...  Playback Listening  Forum     4  22356  03-15-2011
11-09-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,262
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 21
Post ID: 5830
Reply to: 5829
Aesthetic bliss/gestalt by way of aural cues
I think the most profound statement I have seen in this site is to the effect that we should expect the same things from reproduced music that we expect from live music.  Of course this means the aesthetic experience rather than a line item, verbetum "perfect" re-rendering of of the "original".  Yet, one is still left with the choices of which aural cues to strive for and which to slight, since we are bound to compromise, while to totally ignore the "original" event is to court chaos.  It can also be argued that a "good" system can not only render clearly the difference between instruments and musicians but it must also [re]produce well enough in the way of frequency range, pitch and dynamics that there is at least some sense of verisimilitude.  While some listeners can differentiate over the telephone, few would confuse the telephone for live music, and I would not in any case be happy or musically fulfilled with telephone quality [re]production.

The idea of the idea is very powerful everywhere, and it certainly seems to work with hi-fi.  I always think of this as striving for sound that is "reminiscent", that somehow conjurs up for me the same senseSleep and feelings I get from live music.  And I also think this does involve some sort of "reproduction".

Best regards,
Paul S
11-10-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 22
Post ID: 5838
Reply to: 5829
A system that sounds real?
 morricab wrote:

The finest reproduction I have heard was close enough to a real event in sound that with eyes closed you could believe that it was real even though you knew it wasn't.  Then a slight imperfection or two intrude to remind you, sonically, that it isn't but it sure was close!



Tell us something about the setup!
11-11-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Andy Simpson
Posts 42
Joined on 10-21-2007

Post #: 23
Post ID: 5840
Reply to: 5838
....on the subject of 'fooling' the listener.....

I was sitting in the pub a few years ago and overheard a conversation between two audio engineers. They had been drinking for a few hours and had reached the point of grand challenges & wagers.

"I can assemble a music reproduction system that can fool any listener in a double blind test .... with full symphony orchestra" said the man to his friend.
"It can't be done!" said his friend, "you simply can't get a flat enough speaker response!" he continued
"It can be done!" the man replied with vigour, "I'll wager my jaguar v12 on it"
"I accept", said the friend, "and I will wager my precious fairchild 660 limiter - both equal classics I think you will agree. Now let us consider the terms"
"Well, it shall be double blind - in the best traditions of scientific research" said the man
"Agreed. I would like to take your jaguar in the fairest possible manner" said the friend, imagining himself driving the car, the scent of engine oil almost tangible.
"Indeed", the man replied, "and to make the test fair, you will chose the listening panel"
"Well!", exclaimed the friend with excitement, "you had better give me the keys to the jaguar right now! I happen to be a very good friend of Romy the Cat. There need be no other on the panel! I will arrange for him to attend! You will need the very best microphones and speakers in the world!"
"Very well", said the man, "I will arrange the rest. Please await my summons to the test by the late post tomorrow afternoon".

So the man and his friend parted ways and made preparations for the test, the friend very happy in the knowledge that he would soon own a pristine jaguar v12 in racing green.

When the next day arrived, the friend was eagerly awaiting the postman with intructions of the test. A letter arrived with instructions:
"The test is constructed. I have arranged for the Moscow State Symphony to serve as live sound source. Please bring your listening subject to this address."
Where followed an obscure address and a meeting time.

So the friend went, together with his listening panel to the address.

As they arrived at the given address they were amazed to find that the place was a vast dried salt lake. At one end of the salt lake was an old leather chair with a velvet blindfold hanging from one arm.

Just at the same moment the man turned up in his jaguar with a trailer in tow. He climbed out of the car and drew back a tarpaulin. In the trailer was an array of tattered equipment including a pair of battered old Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theatre Horn speakers, a 60 watt Western Electric amplifier, a single RCA ribbon microphone and a cheap DAT machine (complete with noisy & distorted pre-amp).
"I bought the whole lot at auction for £150 - direct from an old dubbing stage in Bombay" he exclaimed casually as he replaced the tarpaulin securely and got back into his car.

As he drove into the distance the friend was left in a state of confusion. This was hardly perfectly callibrated state-of-the-art equipment.

Five miles north of the chair the now slightly salty Moscow State Symphony was tuning up as the man began checking levels on the LED meters of the DAT machine.....

Poor Romy took his seat and placed the blindfold over his eyes.....there was a slight breeze.....

........

Andy

11-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Manitou
Perthshire, Scotland
Posts 9
Joined on 10-26-2007

Post #: 24
Post ID: 5867
Reply to: 5840
Rust in pieces...

Very good!

But an e-type as a 'prize'? Poor engineering? Iconic? Dodgy electrics? Penisey? Rust? Whoosh! what a prize. 

Ironic from the beginning to the bitter end.  I do have a question though.  What direction was the slight breese blowing from and what was Romys orientation to said breese? 

Could be vital...

C


"If you can imagine it, it's real"
...myself and others...
11-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Manitou
Perthshire, Scotland
Posts 9
Joined on 10-26-2007

Post #: 25
Post ID: 5868
Reply to: 5867
Breeze...
I meant breeze, not breese.  Wrong, but sounds somewhat Flemish or Belgian.  Maybe not so wrong after all...?

Hmmm...  Bedtime, I imagine.

C


"If you can imagine it, it's real"
...myself and others...
Page 2 of 2 (25 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  How to USE “Resonating Oops” in loudspeakers..  Injection?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     184  1239516  02-28-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  131645  07-12-2007
  »  New  Simpson Microphones thread...  A whole another subject....  Audio Discussions  Forum     45  268528  10-21-2007
  »  New  About TTH characteristic in Audio..  As a process...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  21016  11-15-2007
  »  New  The Absolute Sound of Audio Idiocy...  Different ways of listening...  Playback Listening  Forum     13  79520  08-06-2008
  »  New  It is about timbres, stupid...  It is about timbres, stupid....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  11925  02-23-2009
  »  New  Other Ways of getting Special Tone from a loudspeaker...  Paul S....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  71398  11-27-2009
  »  New  How to play Bruckner Sound in Audio...  Being a pedagogical geniuses…...  Playback Listening  Forum     16  89386  06-15-2010
  »  New  Rejection of non-natural sounds...  Another view...  Playback Listening  Forum     4  22356  03-15-2011
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