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   Home » Audio For Dummies ™ » Josh: My visit to Romy the Cat's Macondo (29 posts, 2 pages)
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02-02-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 164
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 21
Post ID: 25272
Reply to: 25271
Oh stop
Now Alex , don't be a Sissy Groupie. Josh's posts here were perfectly fine and his Macondo review is perfectly valid and absolutely valuable and it's telling that you do not grasp why. The only slightly questionable thing is his conduct as a man and a guest. I can't speak for Roman , but if he is a man I think he is, that's the only beef there.Josh will pursue his interest in music , DIY audio folks will sleep sound and securely assured in their superior communal thinking, old Jews will be the only people interested in keeping the Orchestra alls going and Roman will carry his Torch. 

02-02-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 222
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 22
Post ID: 25273
Reply to: 25272
Visit doomed to failure
I was just trawling over at diyaudio.com (like I do) and a recently updated thread caught my eye and had these tidbits from Josh the Visitor regarding critique of Macondo/Melquiades and Romy's stated viewpoints of GSC:

Well. I disagree that digital has to be intrusive. 
I disagree that SSamps are too. 
I don’t want to see a ribbon tweeter or standard Subwoofer in my horn. 

I cant stand SET sound. It bores me to death. I need the fresh kick and dramatic punch of a dynamic SS AB amp. 

Reg. the digital i know that having all vinyl-tube chain, and plugging a really good ADDA in the chain that gives exactly 1:1 pass through, u cant hear a difference. Fact. You have to do it blind though  then everybody will fail distinguishing! I bet my *** on that. 
So everything that u “touch / eq / deform” within the 01010 part... is up to you. If this sounds bad, then u did something wrong. Likely vast majority does 

Even if it does touch a molecule, room modes, phase delay, unlinearity is by far more intrusive. Its like comparing that molecule with a galaxy.



I do not add this quote here to discredit Josh in any way nor to belittle his views/experience, but it is fairly easy to see how the visit was doomed before Josh even knocked on the door.  Just like trying to mix oil and water, it was never going to be successful.

Joshs full thread is here...http://tempuri.org/tempuri.html
02-02-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 164
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 23
Post ID: 25275
Reply to: 25273
The point is that visit was not a failure
And sure enough you added the quotes to sling a little bit of mud. I bet it was not stimulating to Roman and a disappointment but it was beneficial to Josh. I simply laughed when he reported lack of orgasm and my respect to Roman increased exponentially. Cheap cigars on me next time I visit Boston. 
02-03-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,602
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 25276
Reply to: 25271
That is what I call audio ballast.
 ArmAlex wrote:
Josch actually I red your previous posts a couple of times to find out your point about the sound you heard, as haven't had the chance to experience Romy's system. Of course I couldn't understand you completely. Anyhow after seeing what CD you brought to test I realize  the time I spent reading your posts was complete waste of time.

Some years back I new a guy who “practiced” audio whom I visited multiple times. He was relatively famous guy within audio internet word, very active online. He had a nice playback setup. That did follow most recent fashions of audio industry. How can described his installation? Well, put in this way: if a cost of installation has any correlation with dedication of owner to audio (it does not but I use it only as an example) then the cost of that guy installation was around 100K, whatever it means. So, the guy had 4 test CDs, he has TEST 4 CDs all his life and he was keep spinning them a few hours a day working on his system. He had more CD in his family room be he admitted that he never used them on his playback. Then he bought a nice TT setup and bough one test LP. That was all that the guy did in audio. I was always making fun about him. Nowadays we do not see each other, he sold his audio and I think he does a different hobby. With all absurdity of the situation I describe the guy was perfectly normal human being. There are very many people like him in audio. I use to get angry about them what I was doing audio full-time. As I become older I become much more tolerant and I just acknowledge the there is a ballast in audio and I do not have anger to them but rather pity.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,602
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 25277
Reply to: 25273
It needs to be views in perspective.
 martinshorn wrote:
at DIYAUDIO.COM

Well. I disagree that digital has to be intrusive. 
I disagree that SSamps are too. 
I don’t want to see a ribbon tweeter or standard Subwoofer in my horn. 

I cant stand SET sound. It bores me to death. I need the fresh kick and dramatic punch of a dynamic SS AB amp. 

Reg. the digital i know that having all vinyl-tube chain, and plugging a really good ADDA in the chain that gives exactly 1:1 pass through, u cant hear a difference. Fact. You have to do it blind though  then everybody will fail distinguishing! I bet my *** on that. 
So everything that u “touch / eq / deform” within the 01010 part... is up to you. If this sounds bad, then u did something wrong. Likely vast majority does 

Even if it does touch a molecule, room modes, phase delay, unlinearity is by far more intrusive. Its like comparing that molecule with a galaxy.
  
Anthony, I think you do not understand it. I told about it before.  The visit was not doomed before Josh even knocked on my door and it was NOT a failure. It was a very successful visit and was perfectly prepared to deal with Josh’s reaction, in fact I was kind of looking forward to it a bit. I just was not prepared for two things: 
 
1)    That Josh will refuse to any accommodations to satisfy his sonic discomfort, while he was in my listening room. I always do it to my visitors, particularly not well audio-developed.  I want people feel in own zone of comfort within their sonic preferences and do not want my preferences to distract them. The most audio evolved people know how to tune themselves off from own audio preferences and the mist wonderful game take place: we listen each other playbacks, hearing the deviation from where we feel the sound should be and then try to understand what the system owner was trying to say by own differences, it is like reading somebody novel, very interesting. The unexperienced people, who not frequently come to my listening room, do not have this level of understanding and they are looking for equilibrium with their purely sonic comfort. It is the level #1 of sonic inelegance by Lechitsky’s classification or as I call it sometimes the level #0a. (Among all people you are among the few who know how perfect the multi-amping let to hsape any sound you want). Usually as I re-tune Macondo for my visitors to be happy with sound then I let them to discover that to not to be “disturbed” by playback is not the final audio objectives but very beginning. I have many people who discovered this fact in my listening room. I was not prepared that Josh refuse to go in there, the opportunities were there and everything that we are discussing how was discussing with Josh while he was here. I think his time did not come yet.  
 
2)    I was absolutely not prepared that Josh will be posting “review” at diyaudio.com site where I have no ways to express my views.  
 
Regarding the views Josh expressed about him liking this and disliking that. They are perfectly valid views and there is absolutely nothing in those views that I find defective. The problem that Josh does not have them. It is hard to understand. What he says or feel has no relativity to reality of sound. If you sit with him and asked him to pull a recording that demonstrate this or that his audio point of view, he will not understand what you mean. I actually did it with him and was w asking him multiple times “what doe it mean to you?” What he demonstrated was the very primitive level #0a and did not get any slightest idea that it might be anything else in there. It was like discussing with a life-long vegetarian some kind of very fine specific of taste of pork marinade…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Newtohorn
Posts 8
Joined on 01-03-2018

Post #: 26
Post ID: 25308
Reply to: 25272
Manger CD
Just got to catch up with this post and I just had to laugh at the Sissy Groupie comment =)
Reminds me of the Manger Test CD.  Once I visited an audio buddy with a new system, the music played was from this very Manger Test CD.  I got the CD home basically to hear the tunes in my system.  It was maybe the only time I put this CD on.  However, I believe this Manger CD deserves more credits than it does here.  Leave alone the interpretations, the music choice is actually much more interesting than a typical "test cd".  For instance it has Capricho Arabe by Tarrega, a piece which is maybe less well known by non classical guitar enthusiast, which I was very surprised to see in a test cd.  Pathetique is another piece that I would not expect to see on a typical test CD focusing on the bang bang boom or with haunting female voices.  Interpretation-wise, none of the pieces in the CD are my go-to choices, but hey, it isn't that bad or is it?  =)
03-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Newtohorn
Posts 8
Joined on 01-03-2018

Post #: 27
Post ID: 25309
Reply to: 25249
+1.5db
 Romy the Cat wrote:

 
In the end a few words. I do tend to listen music significantly loader then he does. It has to do with perhaps personal preferences, habits, type of the music we listen, personal sensitivity. I have no problem with that and this is why I give to visitors a remote control. Set whatever volume you want. The harshness Josh reported is very much there and very much deliberate. In my view it is not a harshness, Josh just did not understand it, but it is +1.5dB forwardness of S2 driver.  It gives some edge to Bruckner recordings and to some other music.

Romy, this caught my attention.  In my experience, I tend to prefer a "harsher/sharper" system when listening to classical tunes, particularly on strings i.e. violins.  Say I would take Oistrakh and Kogan on the Wilson with metal domes (definitely not on any other music, had the WP7 long before and I couldn't get over their bass freq) rather than on any Sonus Faber, which is hailed as the speakers for violins.  Maybe personal taste plays a role here but what are your thoughts?  The +1.5db of S2 you mentioned is there to increase the presence just on some music?  What other parameters do you adjust when listening?  Thks.
03-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 258
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 28
Post ID: 25313
Reply to: 25273
A very confused individual
Slam originating in SS or PP amplifiers? SET being boring? Josh disqualifies himself seemingly at every turn. Instead of embracing the situation and learning something, he just digs an ever deeper hole.
In any case, I question if he has any following. It does not look like anyone is really interested in what he has to say - aside from the initial „report“.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
03-28-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,602
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 25319
Reply to: 25309
It is not what it is all about….
 Newtohorn wrote:
The +1.5db of S2 you mentioned is there to increase the presence just on some music?  What other parameters do you adjust when listening? .

Newtohorn, I think my comment about +1.5db on S2 drivers a bit taken out of context and I think I was the one who started to do it. I do shape sound in some way how I feel it should be shale but what I do should not be taken in context of Josh’s comments. I was trying to interpret his comment about his reported “harshness” but then I understood that what he call “harshness” is not what I call the “S2 forwardness”. It is hard to understand if you do not know what Josh and I were talking about. I very much certain that we are NOT talking about the same even if I feel that Josh’s feeling that I have “harshness” are valid.  Not the last factor, and I cannot stress it hard enough, is that each single recording that Josh played was incredibly harsh. It was not just “harsh” in a normal sense it was just a very much compressed, much grained colorless. I did pointed to him that anything his played was very much compromised from purely audio point of view. I did not care too much about that music, so I did not feel that it make any difference if it was better or worse recorded. It was funny but Josh did not seen disseminated a difference in purely audio quality between CD/LP that I played to him and his recordings. The demo disks uses are typically made with reasonable audio quality, his copy of his demo disks was very bad, I do not know if it was the mechanism how he copied it or whatever…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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