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   Home » Playback Listening » Be careful: Imaging vs. Compression (24 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  239418  05-14-2005
  »  New  Attention Sound Engineers (compression and loudness)..  Injection channel and Romy's rules...  Playback Listening  Forum     48  250168  09-09-2007
  »  New  K-Stereo Ambience Recovery Processor..  Peter's UpperBass + K-Stereo Files....  Didital Things  Forum     29  208247  10-04-2007
  »  New  The mystery of reversed imaging...  Catastrophic reduction of sound quality.......  Playback Listening  Forum     2  20073  11-26-2007
  »  New  The nature of "soundstage" in audio...  My goals beyond...  Playback Listening  Forum     22  124557  02-03-2008
02-16-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 21
Post ID: 2088
Reply to: 2083
Re: Crossovers, phraseology and the holes
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Even if it is possible with a given (multichannel, faulty design) loudspeaker then the DPLOS become very fragile and appears/appears too sudden, without a gradual improvement while approaching the DPLOS. The keys are phase coherency and … surprise, surprise a compliance of the individual drivers between each other.


This was exactly the case -- figuratively speaking, the last mm makes a strong perceptible difference. (And this looked very silly from the viewpoint of another person in the room looking at me touching the bottom of a spkr -- and doing visibly nothing, but the sound changed.)
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Higher order crossovers produce less “maximum amplitude” at the level #3 (my post above) of the DPLOS proximity. Any deviation of crossover from 6db per octave severely minimized articulation and expressive capacity of a loudspeaker. The impedance normalization networks and any resonating chains completely kille it.
...
Ironically 12dB per octave coming from a mechanical device (for instance cut off due to the size of a horn bell) instead of electrical resonating chain do not affect Sound so negatively.

Again, exactly my experience. To state the obvious: given the engineering compromises allowed in the design of the spkrs there seems to be an (equivalently compromised) "optimum" in approaching the DPLOS. 
OTOH, the advantage of a mechanical cut-off seems quite logical; or inversely put, an equivalent electrical circuit has much higher variability (apart from the ubiquitous phase anomalies). I don't mean infinitessimal changes perceptible only to a platinum ear -- I mean our beautiful, 1kHz @ 3volts (let's say) xover, complete with designer components that slips to 0,5kHz (just an example) at 5 volts. With a 6db electrical, you have to work very hard getting things right around that xover -- but, at least, it operates more or less predictably thereafter...

 Romy the Cat wrote:
(the new) location is closer  (luckily) to the DPLOS then the original was.

Indeed Smile !  One of the bonuses of working hard to place the spkrs in the first place!

02-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 9889
Reply to: 1558
Electricity, compression and soundstage
fiogf49gjkf0d
A few days back a guy who began recently to use a power regenerators that eliminates a great deal of compression out of sound was reported that soundstage the he did not like did despair. In this thread I was advocated that “soundstage” as a surrogate of playback reproduction is solely a property of dynamic compression and that higher dymick capacity just blow soundstage like wind flow smoke out of fire… I think the example with better electricity (consequentially higher dymick aptitude of playback) and the vanishing of soundstage is a good illustration about compression and soundstage relation.


The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-05-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 101
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 17909
Reply to: 1558
Compression tuning
fiogf49gjkf0d
Dear Romy,My speakers are semi active-I can turn of above 250 Hz- Do you think it's possible to just turn on bass, position them according to compression?Then fine tune by playing full range?Best regards, Armen
03-07-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 101
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 24
Post ID: 17917
Reply to: 1558
Compression vs. imaging
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

One more tip. The “least dynamic compression positioning” mostly managed by upper bass and bass channels while in the “imaging positioning” the MF and HF channels play more dominating roles. Therefore, if you use a typical single box loudspeaker then you most likely have quite few tools to manage the situation as the different channels would most likely demand the different optimum positions in your room (unless you are incredibly lucky!!!).

Dear Romy,
In your post compression vs. imaging you said to achive good result one must concentrate on "least dynamic compression". I'm seeking your opinion if I can turn off my speakers mid and highs and just turn on bass(it goes up to 250Hz.) and use bass for placement with "least dynamic compression" and then fine tune it using full range.
Best regards,
Armen

Page 2 of 2 (24 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  239418  05-14-2005
  »  New  Attention Sound Engineers (compression and loudness)..  Injection channel and Romy's rules...  Playback Listening  Forum     48  250168  09-09-2007
  »  New  K-Stereo Ambience Recovery Processor..  Peter's UpperBass + K-Stereo Files....  Didital Things  Forum     29  208247  10-04-2007
  »  New  The mystery of reversed imaging...  Catastrophic reduction of sound quality.......  Playback Listening  Forum     2  20073  11-26-2007
  »  New  The nature of "soundstage" in audio...  My goals beyond...  Playback Listening  Forum     22  124557  02-03-2008
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