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09-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 5221
Reply to: 5214
Super Milq 6 channels diaries: #8
Ok, now it looks like the amp is operational. I was listing today the individual channels (without tweeter – the 175:1 transformer is coming). The channels do sound very promising… here are some sweeps with the filter on. All channels use well warns test tube, so I case less about the gain.

The bass channel, it looks pretty good as is

The upperbass, it looks like the attention in the input voltage deviser was right and the response is almost where it should be, I might opened it up at upper knee..

The Fundamental channel. I will high pass it at speaker level as it is just one stage and there is no room to write another filter. I need to listen it and to find out how high I will take it. Preliminary I shell I might take it one octave higher…

The MF – it looks fine.

The Injection channel. There is a mystery dive for ½ dB in the mid range and the HF are rolling off too soon. Something is not kosher in there... However, the general high pass is fine.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-05-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 5230
Reply to: 5221
Super Milq 6 channels diaries: #9 – HF response.
I was kind of frustrated with some strange high frequency roll off at my HF and Injection channels. It should not happen. The 9H OPT LL1627 in Injection channels should be good up to 23kHz according to my former tests with a full range Milq and the Tribute’s OPT with 4H primary and limited amount of turns should be much more extended into HF.

So, I figures that I might be my TRA lied at HF – I did not celibate it before I measured it. So, I run it into the scope and it looked very good exactly - how I expected. Take a look – it is 3V driven into the Milq and the signal was taken from HF channel.

The first one is the calibration of the amplitude at 10 kHz where the channel is a complete band-pass. I made it 10 squares.

Now let to slide the frequency and see where the high-pass crossover will kick in. 3dB in my case is 3 squares or 1.5 squares from top and from bottom. So, I have minus 3dB around 2750Hz.

Let now to raise the frequency. The 20kHz – it has no impact to amplitude and the channel handles it at 0dB…

Now let to move up frequency until I get the 1.5 squares (3dB) roll off. I happened at 75 kHz – not bad at all… In hardly need it for Vitavox S2 driver but still…

It was my MF channel - I did not test my HF as I have no transformer yet – it is coming. It will be driving the Water Drop ribbon directly form the 6E5P’s plate. It is Amorphous torpid 175:1, turn to foil with primary inductance 180mH, leakage inductance 1.7mH and capacitance between primary and secondary .062nF. It should be fun to listen THAT high frequency

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 23
Post ID: 5244
Reply to: 5230
A therapeutic impact of those audio projects.

Jessie was very right talking about therapeutic influence of audio projects.

I do not know why buy I feel very much attached and really feel personally the various micro events that I are going on with my current 6-channel Supper Milq project.  The idea of a parallel narrow-bandwidth operation is very intuitive and lucrative, the design and layout happened to be very elegant and it is very tangible pleasure to make it happen, at least it is that way how I feel. I am being a consultant and paid for hours even took time off another day in order to go home and to implement and to try on the Super Milq the ideas that suddenly came into my mind – a very dangers symptom indeed…

Anyhow, today is the big day and I am planning to load 5 Super Milqs channels to Macondo and will try to listen it…. It should be interesting….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 24
Post ID: 5246
Reply to: 5244
Attachment in direct proportion to effort
I think this is one of the reasons that some DIYers get so far out there.  I look back on my early days and laugh, with the modded Rek-O-Kuts, Altecs, etc.,  but tend to take myself a little more seriously in the here-and-now (...that's different...).

The design sure looks good on paper, and it feels right, too, except I have had doubts all along about a single stage doing enough of what you want, based of course on never having heard anything like what you are attempting.

A key for me is to call it quits before I get manic and/or exhausted, no matter how close to completion I think I am at the time [I get tired].  Most of my serious errors have occurred when I am pushing myself, often in the heat of expectation.

Not saying you would ever get tunnel vision...

I'm rooting for you (and archiving your hard work).

Best,
Paul S
09-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 5248
Reply to: 5246
I would absolutely disagree with “attachment”.
An “attachment” and self-enslaving feeling that I hardly feel in anything and defenatly do not exercise any attachment in audio. The DIYers do not “get so far out there” they are “there” to begin with - nowhere. I do not just hate all that DIY-movement but I even hate the DIY word as it implies a stupid preoccupation with the processes of making audio instead of recognition of results. The people who feel an attachment in direct proportion to efforts should think again about rational of their sensations.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 5249
Reply to: 5230
Super Milq 6-channels diaries: the honeymoon nigh

After many hours and much efforts I have connected the new 6-channels Super Milq to my 6-channels Macondo, with omission of tweeters for now.  I made some measurements and initial adjustments and then was trying to listen it briefly. I did not listen it too critical as it would require more calibration on everything but I was interested about my initial raw impressions. Here are some instantaneous noticeable observations, without order, priority and without any attempts to make any generalizations.

1) The attenuator at Injection Channel turned out to be a total success: very-very-very transparent!

2) I will keep the Injection Channel without any filters and will filter my Tannoys at speaker level. I feel that it is nice to have in house a channel in my Super Milq that will be a full-range Melquiades, able to drive anything else…

3) The volume from single stage amps (Fundamental and MF channels, loaded 15:1) is the identical to all the rest channels – absolutely perfect. The 30K-10K voltage devised at upperbass was all that was necessary to balance all system. (look at the circuit above at provisos page:  http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=5207  )

4) I need to research more how I can capitalize on the upperbass channel, since it does not see the Fundamental’s channel drivers anymore.

5) The sound of a single-stage Milq is not the same to the sound of a two stage Milq - they are NOT identical amplifiers sonically. I can’t not say which is “better”, as I hear the single-stage Milqs only in context of narrow-filtered drivers.

6) Since the single-stage Milqs have own sonic signature I feel that I shell review how Macondo should be organized in terms to capitalize the opportunities that those single-stage channels offer.

7) Is any huge difference between Macondo driven by 3-channels Super Milq and 6-channels Super Milq? I would not say so. There are some differences, including some very positive but still are not as huge as I would like to think. From a different perspective the 3-channels Super Milq was perfectly calibrated to work with Macondo, the 6-channels Super Milq is not at this point. I might only presume that when the 6-channels Super Milq and Macondo will be properly integrated then it might be different.

8) It looks that the tube maintenance with the 6-channels Super Milq will be an ugly ceremony….

9) Screw APS PurePower people! During all those upcoming finalizing procedures I would need a stabilized voltage and I would desperately need constant quality sounding electricity. I still have none of them. It begins to frustrate me….

10) The very prominent changes in sound that I’m getting now are from MF and partially Fundamental Channels. With Fundamental Channels is slightly more interesting then it use to be but it mostly because it is now flexible in operation and setting up.

11) The new sound from MF channel is the punch-line of the entire project. Direct coupled to single-stage Milq the MF horn with S2 drives do sound different. The new MF channel has way less granularity and has much cleaner and much smoother sound flow. It is in way very similar to the sound that I was getting from electromagnetic drivers but in contrary to the field coil type of sound the new MF channel has dynamics and it is capable to become very swift and zippy if music is called upon. Still even it’s zippiness a different then it used to be…. is it very smooth but vivid at the same time. I like a lot that new MF sound, but at the same time I have some reservations. My concern is that with introduction of that super-lucrative and “palatable cleanness” the new MF channels lost some bubbleness on sound. I would question if it is good but thanks God I do not need to question it as I have a tool that really sets me free – the Injection Channel. Without the Injection Channel I would most likely have problem with the super clean MF driver but with the Injection Channel I might inject any structure I want into MF sound and it make me really review what I getting from the new MF channel. I was plying a little with MF + Injection and was able to get very-very interesting results – actually capitalizing on the fact of the MF’s new  purity and hipper-hygiene…

12) I would need to roll off the upper knee of my Fundamental Channel slightly faster…

13) The self noise from the 109dB sensitive speakers is = nothing short of phenomenal. All 5 channels emit no noise of any kind, even if I stick my head into the horns. There is no physical evidence that the system is running, beside the lights from the amp – very nice. The 3-channels Super Milq was very quiet but the 6-channels Super Milq took it even further.

14) The 6-channels Super Milq, even it has juts 3 more 6E5P for whatever reason it radiates more heat and warms room much stronger then it older brother.  Perhaps it is because I have more powerful forced cooling….

15) I was genius that I implement in the new Super Milq an ability to turn the amp on and off via a pedal. It is so cool do not bend my fat and lazy body and just to hit a pedal… I need the identical functionally for opening my refrigerator door…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 5250
Reply to: 5249
Bubbly MF
Bravo for the progress,

Romy quotes in blue :

"...My concern is that with introduction of that super-lucrative and “palatable cleanness” the new MF channels lost some bubbleness on sound..."

Upon reading this, I of course immediately want to know your reaction when running the S2 MF channel with the original metal suspended diaphragms reinstalled...

"...I was genius that I implement in the new Super Milq an ability to turn the amp on and off via a pedal. It is so cool do not bend my fat and lazy body and just to hit a pedal…"

This is a really great idea, which BTW should also allow Koshka power up the new amps!

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
09-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 5251
Reply to: 5250
The very reasonable questions…

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
Upon reading this, I of course immediately want to know your reaction when running the S2 MF channel with the original metal suspended diaphragms reinstalled...

 A very reasonable question. I would like myself to know the answer and am planning to take the S2 with older metal suspension cone and to see how if it behave with single stage amp different. However, I will do it later on and it is not at my immediate radars as it would be satellites and I have a bigger fish to fry at this point (like founding the right operation points for single stages and to make it possible in context of those tubes, resolve some biasing conflicts….. etc…

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
This is a really great idea, which BTW should also allow Koshka power up the new amps!

Hm, I never thought that I would make the amp top vulnerable to my Cat to turn the amp on. This is a reasonable concern. Uselessly Koshka do not care about anything unless it covered with fresh tuna let hope that she will not do it and in the worst case I will use a very strong pedal.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-08-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 5265
Reply to: 5249
Super Milq 6 channels diaries #10
If you read the very important post:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=5255

then might understand that it lead to a painful research on the subject. I have ton of data now and many experiments done. If I have time I will upload some notes.

Here is the current working version. Some of you will understand what is going on and what I'm fighting with…

It is already semi-running...




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-10-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 5275
Reply to: 5265
The 6 channels diaries: evening of gratification

Eventually, I had a chance to spend last night with up and running new Milq (no tweeters was involved at this point). As I said before, the major fight was around the MF channel and I feel I did found a good configuration where the MF channel takes advantage of the single-stage amp but do not exhibit the improper volume/harmonic behavior. It is very interesting to see how S2 responses to single-stage amp. I have many observations and I will make them later, when the information will age in my mind…

Meanwhile I decided last nigh to pick a mono recording and just listen some real music, since the Milq/Macondo are already properly balanced.  I took the La Scala’s 1955 performance of Giordano’s “Andrea Chenier” with shining Maria Callas and Mario del Monaco. It played well, though I question if it makes sense to use that caliber music for audio evaluations. 

It was very fascinating to see the MF channel’s reaction to Sound. It has more of that “snow taste” and in a way sounds slightly less “Vitavox-like”. I am not quite sure at this point if it was positive quality and I need to play with settings around the MF channel more in order to get maximum-interesting sound out of the MF channel. What is very positive moment in all of it is that I might work explicitly with MF channel, without affecting anything else. If nothing else and only because of this moment then the entire idea of the 6 channels Super Milq is well-justified. Thankfully, there is a lot of else…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-10-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 5278
Reply to: 5275
Which OPT is it for the MF channel?
Is it the new Tradition OPT for the MF channel, sorry I haven't had time to follow threads lately? If so I am curious as I need to order an OPT for my full-range melquiades project soon.  (I found someone to build it for me finally!!!) .

R Weissman
09-10-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 32
Post ID: 5279
Reply to: 5275
Channel evaluations
I like to use different sources and kinds of music for sound evaluations.  For instance, I might use some interesting, well-recorded jazz, then move up to something more complex, as you have done.  The jazz tells me some things pretty clearly, but, after all, I do want musical options in the end, and since I got the ML2s integrated I have tried to tweak things to get more out of classical, including "high caliber", "complex classical".  In the end it has to be able to do it right enough, right?

Would it be worth adapting one of the 1/2 X 6C33C channels in order to compare that configuration with the present MF?

You have 65H on the fundamentals, right?

Don't get mad when say it, but a group of the DIY guys insist the weak tubes can drive anytyhing, depending on the transformer.

I wondered about current from the onset.

Of course you also have the injection channel to "add interest"...

Best,
Paul S


09-10-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 5280
Reply to: 5278
Other transformers... but they are does not matter as now.
 RonyWeissman wrote:
Is it the new Tradition OPT for the MF channel, sorry I haven't had time to follow threads lately? If so I am curious as I need to order an OPT for my full-range melquiades project soon.  (I found someone to build it for me finally!!!) .
I do not have Tradition OPT, in fact I do not know what “Tradition OPT” it is. I have two other 15:1 amorphous HF transformers, 5H and 4H but to trace the deference between them is not my objective at this point as there are the things that should be take care before the differences in transformers might kick in. For the full-range Melquiades project it will be necessary to get other type transformer and it will hardly be related to anything in this thread.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-11-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 5282
Reply to: 5265
The Super Milq and the bottleneck
 Romy the Cat wrote:
If you read the very important post:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=5255

then might understand that it lead to a painful research on the subject. I have ton of data now and many experiments done. If I have time I will upload some notes.
I did not expected that the main impediments in the super Milq project will be the organization (sound) of the filters, particularly the high-pass filters. It looks like a type and topology of the high-pass filter for MF canal for instance become very fundamental for what the channel does. As you see on my last circuit I choose to drive the MF channel full range, despise the inductive limitation of the channel’s output transformer. There are reasons why I went for that, look like ridicules, solution. I still am experimenting with high-passing my MF channels, trying to get the right sound out of it but at this point I see no clear picture how it might end. The “resolution” of the 6E5P+S2 is superbly high and the filter-bias assembly is sitting right in the grid – a very “special” place to be.

In addition it is remotely possible that I might come to the conclusion that for proper Sound a channel must not be high-passed at line-level. I do not know if the conclusion will be a general rule of applicable only for the topology of my Milq but if I reach this conclusion then it might be huge as I never heard from any multi-amping people any warning against high-passing and the sonic consequences it has to Sound (I imply the corruption proper relationship between volume and harmonics).

Will see…
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 5288
Reply to: 5282
Super Milq 6 channels diaries #11
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I did not expected that the main impediments in the super Milq project will be the organization (sound) of the filters, particularly the high-pass filters.
After some experiments it looks like the input stage of the super Milq is straighten up. Here is the last version.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 5290
Reply to: 5288
Line level/speaker level, and OPT
Romy, on Fundamentals channel did you leave the 20uF cap at speaker level or did you re-configure that band pass at line level?

Are the RC feeds you mention pre-driver or interstage for A, B and C?

Is everything still 1st order?

Can you say already if you have enough drive with 5H on the MF?

No need to adjust - bias on A, B, C?

I imagine "clarity" is astounding.

Best regards,
Paul S
09-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 5291
Reply to: 5290
There is nothing extraordinary so far.

 

 Paul S wrote:
Romy, on Fundamentals channel did you leave the 20uF cap at speaker level or did you re-configure that band pass at line level?

Nope, it is hoe it depicted the 20uF cap at speaker level. I see no problems with it is very narrow bandpass that cares no HF. However the interdiction of a high-pass filter at line level, right next to the low pass will create problems. The OPT at that channel is 60H and can care a full range signal.

 Paul S wrote:
Are the RC feeds you mention pre-driver or interstage for A, B and C?
The C channel has no filters and works full range.

 Paul S wrote:
Is everything still 1st order?
as you can see.

 Paul S wrote:
Can you say already if you have enough drive with 5H on the MF?
This channel is filtered with 1000mH indictor against 20K resistor, which makes it around 3200kHz. The 5H OPT is set to have the channel to roll of at 250Hz. So, I see absolutely no problem in there with limited inductance. Furthermore, I DID drive the MF without any fitters at all and it was also perfectly fine sonically. Driving frequency down the output reformer at MF channel begun suture around 250Hz but it is at full power – with 3.2 of input signal. What I play music VERY loud with my preamp maxed out then I develops on driver grid no more then .285V RMS. So, I presume that I juts do not drive enough voltage through the channel. Still, I prefer to roll off the input if it does not affect sound. It looks like the RL filter works very nice….

 Paul S wrote:
No need to adjust - bias on A, B, C?

Nope, in the two stages channels the driver cares 17mA that is very far from critical 35-40…

 Paul S wrote:
I imagine "clarity" is astounding.

Nothing extraordinary. There are certain areas where I can report some improvement but nothing revolutionary. It will take time for me to learns how to capitalize on the advancements that I abstained now and how to convert it into more interesting sound….

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-16-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 38
Post ID: 5316
Reply to: 5275
Near end-of-the-project gift.

This weekend the new 6-chenal Milq is not finished yet design-vise but functionally is already “there”. The amp was good enough to play with other 3-chenal Milq. Firstly for the last month I was able to listen full stereo from Macondo…. I spend some time with specific “targeted listening” regarding the nuisances that I was interested in. I made quit a number of exciting observations that will share as time goes by and then I decided to relax from audio and to listen some music. The electricity was not bad and the entire payback was responding not badly. Then, at 2PM, the WGBH kicked in….

In their “SymphonyCast” program the WGBH broadcasted Gergiev leading London Symphony with the 2007 Proms program. Gergiev is not my favorite guy and the Proms seldomly have interesting play but this time it was surprise. Gergiev brought all-Russian program:

Tchaikovsky: Romeo & Juliet Overture
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 2 by Alexander Toradze
Tchaikovsky: Hamlet
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 7

The concert took place in August and WGBH broadcasted live-to-tape BBC recording. The sound was wonderful and as usually SymphonyCast has no abusive compression. The Prokofiev’s symphony was confusing as the Seven should be. The Hamlet was ornamented but boring – I heard more interesting play of this peace. The Second Piano Concerto was extremely appealing - it is seldomly played work and it is incredible complex and difficult. I need to hear it more and I tend to like what I heard; though there were many moments where Alexander Toradze was kind of “lost”. And then the very first piece that LSO and Gergiev played – it was the Romeo & Juliet Overture. That was nothing short of amazing – bold, meaningful and with great respect of own play – the phenomenal performance!

I have to tell that I have heard some new thing in the new Super Milq/Macondo that I liked very much and that I did not experience before. I hope it was not juts an “another good electricity day”…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-19-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 5329
Reply to: 5316
6-channels Milq: the design phase is over.

OK, it took for a while but at this point I have nailed down all design aspects of the new 6-channels Super Milq, and particularly its input stage. I have listen and evaluated all solutions that will be implemented in there; selected, appraised and ordered all ingredients and now I am at a straight finish line with this amp. At this point I know how it will be finished, organized on context of my acoustic system and how it will sound when it will be done.

Here is the semi-final diagram of the 6-channels Super Milq input stage. I said “semi-final” because the values or 2 “red” resistors in the C and F channels will be slightly changed later on, but it will be very minor and will be no more then 20% from where it now. I will make the adjustments on that this image as it is the only drawing that I have and use for the assembly.

A few words about the Super Milq’s final solution.

Lower bass “A” channel: There is no change from what 3-channel. The Super Milq was the same: first order at 65Hz, two stages and 53W dissipation on 6C33C plate at 200V. The coupling cap I dropped to 4uF, did not go for electrolytic and still stay with film cap. I have deseeded do not do inductor as the filter and to say with RC chain. If I found 15H-30H indictor with VERY low DCR (20R-50R) and relatively small dimensions then I might go for it. So far the only inductor that I accept in there sonically was 11” tall and had weight of 25 pounds - I can not fit it in there.

Midbass “B” channel: Everything is straight forward in there.

The Injection “C” channel: The 30K 24-steps L-pad with RN60 resistors and Alma switch is nicely transparent. I do not high-pass this channel at line-level and as a result I have nice full-range Milq amp built-in with which I might drive anything I wish- very convent and I do not need to keep a separate full range Milq around to play other speaker’s drivers that I get from time to time. I can even to connect the second filament on the 6C33C and use more power from the channel. (The OPT has 250mA gap.) I found it very good to have this channel built-in nit to mention that it does very goods job to drive the Reds of the Injection channel. Perhaps now I might let my full-range stand alone Milq to go….

The Fundamentals “D” channel: The first singles stage channel. I use 5E6P in there. To mess-up two closed operating line-level filters was not good idea. Since the channel is low passed I did not detect any negative influence of the caps on the secondary. The channel has also attenuation at speaker level and is used ~ 6db below the MF channel.

The Mid Range “E” channel: This is a purely a shine of the whole project. I use 6E6P-DR as a driver  and  RL filter. Absolutely nothing in capacitive world (mica, teflon, polypropylene, polystyrene) was able to give me the result I got from the RL filter.  Air cap was the best among caps but RL filter was superior to air caps. It does apparently serves the purpose does not put anything in series… So, the RULE is: no capacitors in high-pass if top is wide-open. I shell write more about the selection of the filter for MF in future as it was very interesting journey.  It was exciting to learn that D, E and F channels do not need as lot current as I initially thought and I use 30mA at 200V, which dissipate moderate 6W on plate. The coke I use is Hammond 622ZA in a Co-Netick can. I have also another “alternative” very interesting output transformer for this channel to try….

The HF Range “F” channel: The 6E6P-DR at 30mA connected at tetrode. The filter is second order with Sowter 9858 Pultec MEQ-5 EQ Inductor 420/277/145/108/61/34 mH) and variable air cap. The variable inductance and capacitance allow me to write any prefer Bessel curve against any frequency I wish and I have now much more gain on in tweeter then I need. The driver is tetrode strapped to defeat the insertion loss of the 175:1 transformer and to have more then necessary gain to run the “Water Drop” Tweeter on transition slope, crossed at 30kHz-40kHz with second order. The shortcomings of the tetrodes (loosing of damping, increase of output impedance and so on…) are absolutely not applicable in my case as the ribbon tweeter care less about the damping. In fact if I have a tube with more transconductance then 6E5P-6E6P (30-35ma/V or 30.000mS in Western scale) that has >3-4W on plate and more then 2-3V of bias I would stick it in. I might use something like 7788 pentode only with more power and more bias. If you know any of them then please pitch it to me as to have too much gain on tweeter do not hurt. Do not forget that the chennal will not do “sound” but rather the “space noise”. Still, even what I have now is ~ 12dB more then I need and it is already is very good.

In the end: the layout of the things is really perfect and I do like very much how it fits. I practically (air cap is an exception) do not use any extra wire at all for signals and bias – just the natural leads of the parts. The bias attenuators, after much evaluations, I ended up to use Bourns 83 series that are a perfect balance between the geometry, wirewound multi-turn precision/reliability and sound quality.

http://www.bourns.com/pdfs/8384.pdf

It is pretty much it and not I need to render it in the final implementation….

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-19-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 40
Post ID: 5332
Reply to: 5329
Some great solutions
Nice job of keeping R off the ribbon.  Like you said, who cares about circuit "damping" there, anyway, given the freaking magnet in that thing versus the 0 weight of the ribbon.  I'd say it's "damped enough"...

It will be interesting to hear how your LF cap works out versus the 11 pound L.  That's a lot of mass you are pushing there.

If something betters the best wirewound pots for your application, I'd like to know about it.  I figure that's as close to a "non-issue" as we get.

I agree that series caps suck, and "open-ended" high-pass series caps are the worst; I'm just not clear on how to get around them.  Using them, the sound becomes "about" the stupid cap.

30 - 40kHz x-over?

Best regards,
Paul S
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