| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Didital Things » A CD player of today… 20 years after TL0 (33 posts, 2 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 2 of 2 (33 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Myth of CD clocking = True/False..  Clock cables...  Didital Things  Forum     15  99016  02-24-2006
  »  New  CEC TL0 3.0 trasport..  Cec tl5 transport...  Didital Things  Forum     1  10785  07-07-2014
07-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 21097
Reply to: 21095
It is about the level of digital rhetoric
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hm, I did not know that Dan Lavry has his son Marc working with him.  For sure it has to be gratifying for Dan that  son could take over eventually and Marc does have a large shoe to fill.  Still, we as consumers faced ultimate question: would Lavry products of 2015 vintage be the same as they were 20-25 years back? Generally is audio and in life it never the case. Would Lavry be able to overcome the trend? Who knows....

The Dan Lavry position himself is kind of peculiar. It presume that he would give whole weight of his reputation and experience to give a jump stat to his or his son new venture. Dan always was vocal, posted in pro groups and wrote papers. It does not look that he did it, at least I did heard it yet. It is possible that the explanation and publicity from Dan will be coming in future. It is also possible that he is not well and do not play the games anymore. Everything is possible...

Here is what I think. If Marc Lavry would like to fill his father shoes, of even become better than his dad (that would be ultimate benefit for us the consumers and for legacy of his family) then Marc need to open his mouth and begin to speak. Dan Lavry not only design great product but he was outspoken person. Agree you with him or not but he certainly have risen the general level of digital arguments. So, Marc, come on, are you up to  the task?

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 309
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 22
Post ID: 21098
Reply to: 21097
Then and now
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Here is what I think. If Marc Lavry would like to fill his father shoes, of even become better than his dad (that would be ultimate benefit for us the consumers and for legacy of his family) then Marc need to open his mouth and begin to speak. Dan Lavry not only design great product but he was outspoken person. Agree you with him or not but he certainly have risen the general level of digital arguments. So, Marc, come on, are you up to  the task?

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


Just for the record a short quote from Stereomojo article on the DAC 11:

"Unlike a lot of the better-known audiophile designers (and marketers), Lavry likes to remain relatively quiet about his designs.  While this seems a bit against the grain of modern marketing, where companies are constantly hyping the technical specifics of their newest and best designs, I can understand why Mr. Lavry likes to keep his cards close to his chest.  First, he considers his designs to be proprietary, and second, he doesn’t like the idea of audiophiles acting as 'back seat designers'.”



Based on what I read some years ago about the DAC 11, I think the problem with digital product design these days is the need (at least as perceived by designers) to integrate DACs with computers and servers. Reviewers of the DAC 11 reported all kinds of differences in sonics depending on each combination of inputs and outputs. Digital design prior to 2000 could proceed in minimalist fashion and still be viable commercially. No more. That's why I see digital on a downward trajectory until the issue of the computer is resolved.
12-21-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 178
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 25193
Reply to: 21098
Ask Lavery about new DAC Quintessence
Hello-
Regarding your questions:
 
1.) The DA924 was originally designed before converters with accuracy beyond 15-16 bits were available. It is no longer in production. The Quintessence is a state-of-the–art design with accuracy that exceeds the DA924 and offers additional features. The “sound” is extremely neutral so what you hear is the recording exactly as it sounds with no coloration or loss due to the converter. There are two outputs, the Main output which is a straight-wire fixed level and the Monitor output with the front panel Volume control. The Volume control is a proprietary analog design that offers click-free stepped settings in 1/4dB steps over an 80dB range. Each of the three inputs has its own level setting, so digital sources can be compared with level compensation for differences in the recorded level. The Volume control can also be used to directly control speaker listening level (no need for an additional preamp or volume control).
 
2.) The DA924 actually did not use an r-2r network; the design is proprietary.
 
3.) The DA-N5 is an up-sampling converter for 44.1 and 48kHz.
 
4.) The DA924 had more of a “sound” that most people liked, but it was not as accurate as the DA-N5. The DA-N5 is extremely neutral in character (it has no “sound”). Customers who own them have been very enthusiastic in their response and many have traded their DA924’s in to upgrade to the Quintessence.
 
Please feel free to reply to tech support if you have any technical or operational questions.
 
Thank you,
Lavry Engineering Technical Support
12-21-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 274
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 24
Post ID: 25194
Reply to: 25193
Marketing garbage again?
Why should we believe this? Is this not the very trash that the modern audiophile company uses to get people with more money than sense to "upgrade". How good would the system have to be to show the difference?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
06-08-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 25
Post ID: 25459
Reply to: 20358
Have you found the answer?
As I contemplate the death of my TL-0 (which I found, a gently used one, 10 years ago), and people back in Japan tell me the replacement laser pick up parts no longer exist, I am curious as to the answer to the question you posed ("20 years after TL0 do we have anything in the market..."), or what solution you have found?
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 25460
Reply to: 25459
Still in progress...
John, I am not sure that I can talk in generalities on the subject as for a quite few years I stopped to monitor the market as attentively as I did years back. It is very possible that something new come to existence last 10 years. Also, there a huge array of new options to rip CDs and play files from different streamers, some people claim that it is the way to go. My limited experience with ripping and streaming CDs demonstrated to me that TL0 beats anything I was trying to stream and I found that the people who supported ripping were uninformed. But it was my own experience from past and I am not sure if the conclusion still holds ground today. I still use TL0 with Bidat, that I found to be a unique combination. The massive, overwhelmingly massive details of TL0’s output in my view are very well compensated by lower Mid bloating character of Bidat. I find that TL0 ability to accent the rhythmical inflictions are so stanning that only this characteristic made me in past discard any other CD solution contestants. The TL0 also has the best lower bass of anything I have tried, even though the Bidat does not. 
 
So, as my TL0 dies it was quite a tragedy to me. I did fine a laser at eBay; they are quite available and they cost $40. I have my local technician to put the new laser in and it has… no impact. Bummer! Ten my technician asked me why I made him to replace the laser, I told him that because it is what get worn. He retook the unit and measured everything and informed me that I was wrong and the problem with my unit was not laser but the spindle motor. That thing was had to get and we got not the right replacement but something that he was able to fit in there. This fixed the problem. The unit still have some occasional random “loosing” but generally it is operational. If I do find the right spindle motor, I will replace the one that it being used now.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 25461
Reply to: 25460
TL0 forever then
Romy, thank you for the very useful info. You have given me hope! When I contacted CEC in Japan a year or two ago asking to let me buy replacement lasers (as many as I could) they said no (they did say they will repair the unit if it ever fails - if you need me to help you get that spindle motor replacement please let me know if I can help - I can call them and I have contacts in Japan plus I go there twice a year). My local audio repairman (who is authorized service center for many famous non-US high end brands but not CEC) told me he has customers who are selling their TL0s before they break down. Finally, people in the Japanese hifi industry told me audio equipment that need IC chips and lasers all going to be un-repairable, which was shocking but also funny that it seems that all the CD promises were false and simple vinyl was the most robust long term medium to enjoy music. I think with potential changes in software/hardware even ripped music and files may  become obsolete one day? So your story of how you brought your TL0 back really made my day - at least while our ears last we can enjoy CDs played on the CEC. I agree with you the TL0 is stunning - my day to day system is basically a table top radio, but every once in a while when I play the TL0 through big amps and speakers it is like as if I went from a kitchen faucet to a fire hydrant hose! 
PS - the ebay replacement lasers are not originals but it seems it had no impact on the sound for you, which is really good news
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 309
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 28
Post ID: 25462
Reply to: 25461
Disappearing digital players

I agree with Romy that unfortunately playing files from the computer (regardless of how they were produced) is sonically worse than playing disks through high quality players' transports. I have no idea why that is the case and it seems counterintuitive. But it is not just me.

Finally, people in the Japanese hifi industry told me audio equipment that need IC chips and lasers all going to be un-repairable,

This has been going on under the radar so to speak. Audiophiles incorrectly generalize from TTs to CD players. A TT (without tonearm) can be built at home with only a few tools and a commercial motor. Lasers and IC require expensive and complex manufacturing. Even in the heyday of CD players, audiophile companies were not manufacturing their own custom lasers and ICs but fiddling with analog outputs, power supplies and vibration control. It was only the recent collapse of Oppo that has woken up some audiophiles (not that I think Oppo was much good sonically but many did).
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 25463
Reply to: 25461
So far I am still with TL0
John, my technician, his name is Dariusz, tested the original laser and the aftermarket that we got from eBay and he insisted that there is no difference and there was no need to change it at all, at least in my case. You can contact him and ask more about it. His site is qaudio.com, his contact information is at the bottom of his page. Honestly as my TL0 got bracken I was very upset as it would means to embark to a journey to find another good CD transport. It looks like nowadays they do not care about 16-bit transports anymore and I feel that if I need to do it again it will be painful and pricy search.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 30
Post ID: 25464
Reply to: 25462
The vulnerable TTs
Based on what the engineers tell me, the direct drive TTs and the belt-driven ones with very fancy motors (controlled by an IC chip) are guaranteed to become useless. I hope those 100k turntables (like Techdas) have been designed for eternal repairability given their cost Smile
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 25465
Reply to: 25463
Things do not always get better with time (at least with audio)

Thank you for the kind intro to your technician.  Yes, replacing the TL-0 will probably be a heartbreaking exercise. Just like there are people who own a few vintage Jaguars to cannibalize parts from one to the other, it is crazy that we are forced to consider doing the same for CD transports. Another bad alternative is to record the TL-O playing music onto open reel; talk about back to the future Smile
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 309
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 32
Post ID: 25466
Reply to: 25464
Outboard TT drives
As long as the belt TT motor can be driven externally after IC failure then it shouldn't be a catastrophe. The direct drives are more problematic and I am not sure the effectiveness of workarounds. Nevertheless old DD TTs do seem available on the used market from time to time so maybe something can be done with them short of a TI factory getting involved.  Do most buyers of really expensive TTs hold on to them for 20 years? That's an honest question but it seems to me the answer is no as they seem to gravitate to the next super TT. Maybe someone here knows.
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 309
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 33
Post ID: 25467
Reply to: 25463
That would be good news
 Romy the Cat wrote:
John, my technician, his name is Dariusz, tested the original laser and the aftermarket that we got from eBay and he insisted that there is no difference and there was no need to change it at all, at least in my case. You can contact him and ask more about it. His site is qaudio.com, his contact information is at the bottom of his page. Honestly as my TL0 got bracken I was very upset as it would means to embark to a journey to find another good CD transport. It looks like nowadays they do not care about 16-bit transports anymore and I feel that if I need to do it again it will be painful and pricy search.

That sounds encouraging if your inexpensive 3rd party laser replacement (from Ebay) tested the same as the original laser or close enough. I have been wondering about that for my Marantz Bluray player as the laser is no longer obtainable from Marantz itself.
Page 2 of 2 (33 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Myth of CD clocking = True/False..  Clock cables...  Didital Things  Forum     15  99016  02-24-2006
  »  New  CEC TL0 3.0 trasport..  Cec tl5 transport...  Didital Things  Forum     1  10785  07-07-2014
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts