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   Home » Melquiades Amplifier » Full range Melquiades implementation (82 posts, 5 pages)
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03-03-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 15692
Reply to: 15691
The Milq’s Newton Bias
fiogf49gjkf0d
 decoud wrote:
I shall try it; do you suggest it as a test of whether or not mating the Milq with the SH50 screws up the sound irredeemably anyway? Rgds, d

Nope, it has nothing to do with ability or disability of Milq to drive SH50. Milq has a lot of built up to facilitate bias that might be accomplished by much cheaper and more convenient means. However in my estimation only THAT bias makes the Milq to sound in the way I like it. This Newton Bias as Dima and I call it does make very interesting impact to Sound and I feel it worth to make a simple experiment to confirm it. I do remember very vividly what I first got it and I feel it was very educational, at least to me. You might find it useful to see the difference as well.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
glaesemann
New York
Posts 22
Joined on 12-18-2007

Post #: 22
Post ID: 17394
Reply to: 15612
Parts still available? Melquiades update?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Decoud, are these parts still available? How about an update on your Melquiades project and specifically the results of Melquiades and SH50. 


"I'd rather know than believe." - Carl Sagan
11-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 23
Post ID: 17403
Reply to: 17394
Getting there
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, the parts are still available, decoudm@gmail.com for further details.

The Melquiades is nearly finished, my builder tells me, but I don't yet have an eta: will report when I have it.
05-18-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 24
Post ID: 18188
Reply to: 17403
Full range Melq and SH-50
fiogf49gjkf0d
So, the SH-50 is easily driven. And the sound is easily the most interesting I have heard. Further reports to follow. 
FullRangeMelqImplementation.JPG 
05-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 18189
Reply to: 18188
Good.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Interesting, decoud. If you build the exact schematic of Milq then share your experience about the building process and the final amp calibration. Did you detect any need to make any correction to hit the right operation modes? What OPT you used? The key in the amp is quality of OPT, the driver and the driver’s bias. I would strongly advise to try running the amp with no gas tubes (juts as an experiment) and to see how it impacts sound.  I do not know the SH-50 speaker but of cause it wools be interesting to hear your observation about sound. There are some minor things that might be tuned in Milq that would navigate sound here and there… Let me know if you need any assistance with it.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 26
Post ID: 18190
Reply to: 18189
Early days
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, it is built according to the schematic, but by someone else, from whom I have only just received it. The opt is custom-made nanocrystalline amorphous core, gapped at 300mA and running 200V/240mA.

It is quiet, precise and very fast (which last the unusual coherence of the SH50 helps). But what is most interesting, to my ear anyway, is the way in which the character and dynamics of tone appear to be signal dependent. Whereas an amplifier usually has a static tonal signature, imposing it on whatever is played in a uniform manner, this one intelligently adjusts to the input. A subtle accentuation of contrast that is helpful in a quiet passage is not there in a loud one, where it would not be. Though even harmonic distortion is there, as one would expect, it does not colour instruments, such as violins, where a richer pattern of distortions is essential to their tone. In general, the real microdissonances that give music vigour are reproduced, but without the cost of introducing fake ones elsewhere.  It is eerie.

What parameters would you suggest tuning?

bw, d
05-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,130
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 18191
Reply to: 18190
"Drive"?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Good for you, Decoud!  That picture ought to warm your cockles 'til summer!

I don't know if you have an audiohile-nervosa morbid streak (like I do), but are you curious to find the limits of this little amp with the big speaker?  Are you sneaking up on the limits, or have you already gone for it?  Are you running it FR, or high passing?  If x/o, then where and how?  If FR, then how is LF?  What about fortissimos?

As for tuning, how about clarity vs. tonal saturation, or impact vs ambience?

Best regards,
Paul S
05-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 28
Post ID: 18192
Reply to: 18191
Limits
fiogf49gjkf0d
No, I have not pushed it hard at all: I am just trying to understand it in the mean before I look at the extremes. Though 100db sensitive, the SH50 is designed to handle 1000W or some such absurd power, so it is surprising that it works so well. It is currently running full range, and the LF shows the interesting effects I mentioned, but I'd like to hear it when it is high pass filtered, as Danley recommends. Yes, I am sure you are right about those as outcome measures of tuning, but the question was rather what parameter of the amp itself to play with (beyond output stage current).
05-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,130
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 29
Post ID: 18194
Reply to: 18192
Parameters
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, the usual pivots are the tubes' basic current and voltage operating points.  Like Romy has described many times, there is on the one hand an "optimal" convergence point at clipping.  Then, there are the audible "polar" "qualities" that one gets to "choose between" via the current/voltage/wattage choices, and plate loading, broadly speaking, not to mention the bridge, and the means of regulation, grounding, etc, etc.  Since (I presume...) you know what this speaker can do, it will be interesting to hear from you your impressions of how the amp fares and your sense of overall results with a large, "efficient" direct radiator of of the pro ilk.

Best regards,
Paul S
05-20-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 18196
Reply to: 18190
Do not forget to detonate to homeless Cats shelter.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 decoud wrote:
Yes, it is built according to the schematic, but by someone else, from whom I have only just received it. The opt is custom-made nanocrystalline amorphous core, gapped at 300mA and running 200V/240mA.

Very good. The 200V/240mA with 300mA gap is a sensible mode. With 300mA gup what the lowest cut off you get at full 18W-20W power?
 decoud wrote:
It is quiet, precise and very fast (which last the unusual coherence of the SH50 helps). But what is most interesting, to my ear anyway, is the way in which the character and dynamics of tone appear to be signal dependent. Whereas an amplifier usually has a static tonal signature, imposing it on whatever is played in a uniform manner, this one intelligently adjusts to the input. A subtle accentuation of contrast that is helpful in a quiet passage is not there in a loud one, where it would not be. Though even harmonic distortion is there, as one would expect, it does not colour instruments, such as violins, where a richer pattern of distortions is essential to their tone. In general, the real microdissonances that give music vigour are reproduced, but without the cost of introducing fake ones elsewhere.  It is eerie.

Yes, I would say that the effect mode applicable to dynamics (it was what I called viscose dynamics or smart dynamics) not to “tonal signature” as I did not feel the amp modify colors during play. It does happen with dynamics and key is the driver stage.
 decoud wrote:

What parameters would you suggest tuning?

I suggest do not modify anything. If you have any specific sonic problem or specific requirements to navigate sound in one or another direction that I might to pith to you some way to tune the amp slightly…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-20-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 31
Post ID: 18197
Reply to: 18196
Education
fiogf49gjkf0d
Many thanks for the suggestions, both of you, and many thanks Romy for making the schematic available to others. This really is a remarkable piece of work and I would strongly encourage others to try it. 
05-21-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 18198
Reply to: 18190
Builder
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi decoud,Could you share with me the contact details of your builder please ?
Thanks,
R Weissmanronyweissman@hotmail.com
06-14-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 18288
Reply to: 18197
Melquiades update please
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi decoud,
Are you still enjoying your amplifier ? I may go for it, or I may try a leben 660 or almarro 318 . Any feedback would be helpful.R weissman
06-16-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 34
Post ID: 18296
Reply to: 18288
Risk
fiogf49gjkf0d
My view remains unchanged: it is an extraordinary amplifier, at least with my speakers.  It is also relatively simple, so if something goes wrong you will have no problem correcting it. I would change a few small things with the implementation -- just structurally -- but more appropriate to email me about it.
07-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 18439
Reply to: 18296
Melq building
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks for response I will e-mail after the holidays. i have begun exchanging mails with the builder and I think I can swing this project, financially speaking.
R Weissman
08-08-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 36
Post ID: 18498
Reply to: 18197
Coupling capacitor
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy, I imagine the coupling cap in the full range melq acts as a first order high pass filter: is there any reason why one could not lower its value to raise the cutoff to a level one would otherwise redundantly need a speaker-level filter to achieve?  rds, d
08-08-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 18502
Reply to: 18498
Sure, you can do it.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 decoud wrote:
Hi Romy, I imagine the coupling cap in the full range melq acts as a first order high pass filter: is there any reason why one could not lower its value to raise the cutoff to a level one would otherwise redundantly need a speaker-level filter to achieve?  rds, d

Yes, sure the coupling cap in the full range Milq acts as a first order high pass filter and this is what I use in DSET configuration. If you have a wide range amp and need to high-pass loudspeakers at let say 30Hz then it would be a good idea to implement the roll off by coupling cap. The OPT still need to be at least 1.5 octaves lover however. I do not stress this meted in full range amp as I do not like the loudspeakers with closed bottom, or the loudspeakers that need a high pass.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-14-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 450
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 38
Post ID: 18595
Reply to: 18498
Nichicon caps source?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Decoud (and others), where do you source big Nichicon caps, pref. in EU?

I'm slowly preparing to attack a Staxquiades - a mastodont Milq inspired
amp to power Stax headphones (PP 6E5 DC to PP 2A3/300B/EL34).
I need 10.000uF/500V and 10.000/350V caps.
Mouser, srouser and other trouser sell them at prohibitive
prices and I believe one can have them way cheaper.
(I got a very reasonable-looking "quote" from Hong-Kong, but I susect the seller has little
idea which voltages she quotes)

Thanks for any help,
N-set



Cheers,
Jarek
09-15-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 240
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 39
Post ID: 18596
Reply to: 18595
Eu sources
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking for a reliable one myself: a capacitor just failed. Similarly for Electrocube 950s which are obscenely priced in low quantities direct, and not on the ground this part of the world.  
09-15-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 450
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 40
Post ID: 18601
Reply to: 18596
Nichicon failed?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 decoud wrote:
Looking for a reliable one myself: a capacitor just failed. Similarly for Electrocube 950s which are obscenely priced in low quantities direct, and not on the ground this part of the world.  


Really? Did you form it before putting on HV?


I got scared just looking at it:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/221040095771?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

I consider getting a pair...would prefer a bit smaller but...heck

Electrocube-I passed on the idea and used Arcotronics KP172 in EAR834

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=KP-172&sra=oss





Cheers,
Jarek
Page 2 of 5 (82 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3 4 5 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Melquiades For Dummies™ - step by step...  Risk...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     24  126616  08-29-2007
  »  New  Building Melquiades: Chronicle of full-range..  Variable Resistors...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     43  242031  06-09-2006
  »  New  Building Melquiades: questions and answers...  PeaceMAT XS™...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     96  295300  10-09-2007
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