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12-30-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 201
Post ID: 12584
Reply to: 12341
The MiniMe playing loud.
fiogf49gjkf0d
This is kind of strange but never played MiniMe loud. If I want the concert style play from audio I usually use Macondo. The MiniMe usually plays at the level of 60-80dB but today I have fun to listen something and I cranked it up. To my surprise MiniMe did not responded. I mean I so accustom that each click on my preamp adds more loudness that I even forgot that it might be different.  After reaching a certain level   MiniMe just stop to play louder. Before this level the dynamics is very impressive. This Focal 51 tweeter does dynamic magic at low and mid levels. But after certain level it juts stops. I do not know if it is amp or the Yamaha B2 amp, I do not case as I do not plan to do anything with it. It is just very odd to add 60 clicks and to have absolutely no auditable impact.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-30-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 202
Post ID: 12585
Reply to: 12584
Volume issue with solid state. . .
fiogf49gjkf0d
I had this "volume" issue with the dozen or so solid state amplifiers I tried in my bedroom system. There was a big jump in volume from click zero to click one. From click 10 to click max there was not much of an increment in volume. Overall, volume increase with my tubed gear was more gradual and what I expected. 

Thinking about it now, I suppose this was due to impedance matching between the preamp and amp & the consequences of very inefficient speakers (which is not a linear problem BTW).

Incidentally, I tried that Yamaha B2 in this system. It was enjoyable at reading/background volumes but gave me a headache and sounded "uninspiring" in every way at any higher volumes; it sounded better after running for an hour or so, but still not very good. The B2 ran very cool so this was probably a function of switching out of class A too early and need of some routine maintenance. The built in "preamp" functions and the binding posts were less than stellar,which I think you also noted somewhere. Lots of intellectual horsepower wasted on the meters. 

Nonetheless, at low volumes the B2 amp was pleasing so I will get that serviced one day. The "volume" issue you note above was the same with the B2 as it was with all the other solid state stuff I tried.
12-30-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 203
Post ID: 12586
Reply to: 12585
Interesting that you attribute the effect to amplification....
fiogf49gjkf0d
scooter,

Interesting that you attribute the effect to amplification, not to the loudspeakers. You might be right, I do not know – I do not have a lot of experience with getting right sound from SS amps and for me is a big mystery how they work. The B2 does not do too well at default bias. The upper region at values over 70-80dB juts breaching up into sever distortions. Holding the amp at higher bias and letting it to go to A/B class later does cure the problem, making it to sound much neutral at HF. However, it also might be that it affects the dynamic capacity of the amp. It might be or might not be so. I more inclined to blame the low sensitively speakers. Well, I have no idea what I would blame. It is not good. It is it curable? I do not know, I so long do not have SS amp and loudspeakers with sensitively in 80s then I might lose a senesce how they typically sound. I know that I am not planning to change anything so far as in my room of I need the MiniMe to sound laud then I turn the Macondo on.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 204
Post ID: 13203
Reply to: 8141
A death of MiniMe as I planned?
fiogf49gjkf0d

I was strategizing how will be putting my audio crap in my new listening room. The room is being remodeled now and here is an interesting subject. The room has 4 wall-installed loudspeakers mounted on the cathedral ceiling.

DeathOfMiniMe.jpg

They are 6” in infinite baffle configuration.  I am planning do not remove them and perhaps to use them as some sort of MiniMe substitute.  I did connect them and they do surprisingly fine.  I would say that they do fine with NPR news and they less suitable for Music. Still, can such speaker in such position to be used for anything.  This week I still have a full control over the room walls and then it will be re-finished. I can even mount a 18 driver into the wall in infinite baffle configuration, of course not for Macondo but for MiniMe’s needs…

Anyhow, I am still thinking how hard I will use those ceiling mounted speakers. They do produce a very freaky sound. I think partially it is because the drivers might be not in phase. I have no time to investigate all of this now but I will keep the ceiling-speakers on the ceiling for how and will see how it goes.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 205
Post ID: 14397
Reply to: 8138
The end of MiniMe
fiogf49gjkf0d
As much as the concept of MiniMe I find is supremely useful as much it was unlucky in my implementation. I went over a number of monitors, then built my own versions of MiniMe, then in the new room I used Danlavy SCIII. Some of them were good but it looks like they did not stick to the wall.

The last week I setup a new revision of MiniMe and it gives me some odd sense of peacefulness. My new listing room had 4 in-ceiling mount speakers (cathedral cathedral, so it is kind of in-wall mount). The speakers were SpeakerCraft – nothing exiting but they have in wall 6 run of very good cables to itch of them. I put into the SpeakerCraft the Focal Utopia drivers; in this case multi-wired with Utopia own external crossover and driver it all from a separate from my plays table radio. I do like the result, particularly the fact the woofer work in infinite baffle and do prose very pleasant sound.

I did remove the SCIII out of my room. There is no MiniMe anymore. From one perspective it was good to have a pilot speaker. I still like the idea and I will be missing it. From additional perspective my listing room is well isolated from living quitter and radio plays via my in-wall MiniMe all time – it is too comfortable do not use it as is….

MiniMe_End1.JPG

MiniMe_End2.JPG

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-06-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 206
Post ID: 14399
Reply to: 14397
….and a few follow up thoughts
fiogf49gjkf0d
Despite that I killed my MiniMe I still would like to stress that a pilot acoustic system for any large installation, particularly a one that uses tubes multi-amping and do records is very very useful. I would like to encourage others to keep experimenting with good ideas of true pilot systems. Fill free to post information if you find any inspiring solutions.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-10-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 207
Post ID: 18993
Reply to: 8138
One step forward and two steps back.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Interning as I again feel a need to use a pilot system with my playback. Not that I “need to” but I rather fine it very comfortable as playing digital strip from multiple locations I have music running for many hours. I have not too high demand for quality of sound during thus moments and I do not want to run Macondo feed by mp3 crap.  Hhmm, something very small that would do large sound of large room – I remember I had this conversation sometime in past.

In past I was very successful to use small monitors that I made with my favorite Focal tweeters but those monitors will not handle my current listening room. I need some kind of other invisible solution.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-11-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 241
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 208
Post ID: 18994
Reply to: 18993
Exploiting the architecture
fiogf49gjkf0d
Perhaps you should use the cathedral configuration to make a synergy horn of the entire ceiling: tweeter at the apex, mf a little further down each wall, and bass at the base. 
Were it steeper it could actually work. 
02-11-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 209
Post ID: 18995
Reply to: 18993
How bad do you need it to be?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, the main system often seems to require too much of an "investment" to make using it worthwhile, or even realistic.

I confess I have let my mind wander in this direction:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=a5+audioengine&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=7287412101&hvpos=1t3&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18735131591406127421&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_8iss7548pl_b

There are others along these lines, of course, but I'm not sure one is so much "better" than another.  As for "normal" box speakers, I normally recommend the nearly-impossible-to-find-now original Harbeth Monitor 40s as "all day" speakers that do not spawn suicidal thoughts.  Although the 40s do need some power, it could probably be integrated MOSFET amps, or something like this, maybe a soft version of the new "All-In-One" source/pre/amps.

Really loading that great room is another matter, if that's what you're after...

Best regards,
Paul S
02-11-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 210
Post ID: 18996
Reply to: 18995
Micondo's Pilot Rev 2.0
fiogf49gjkf0d

 decoud wrote:
Perhaps you should use the cathedral configuration to make a synergy horn of the entire ceiling: tweeter at the apex, mf a little further down each wall, and bass at the base.
Were it steeper it could actually work.

A good idea but I do not think that I would go for this level of complexity for Pilot Channels.  I think a regular monitor that are able to play a typical monitor bass (down to 60Hz would say) would be perfects sufficient. They juts need to have a lot of power handling to power the whole room and to be small size. I might add some kind of consumer grade sub to it if I need to. The way how I envision it will be mostly used with internet feeds, that are 192kbit/s - 320 kbit/s, or essentially the data feed compromised by digital compression anyhow, so quality is very tolerable in there and demands are very flexible…

 Paul S wrote:
I confess I have let my mind wander in this direction:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=a5+audioengine&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=7287412101&hvpos=1t3&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18735131591406127421&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_8iss7548pl_b

There are others along these lines, of course, but I'm not sure one is so much "better" than another.  As for "normal" box speakers, I normally recommend the nearly-impossible-to-find-now original Harbeth Monitor 40s as "all day" speakers that do not spawn suicidal thoughts.  Although the 40s do need some power, it could probably be integrated MOSFET amps, or something like this, maybe a soft version of the new "All-In-One" source/pre/amps.

Actually, I was also thinking about some kind of pro active monitors. I would like it to be small and not complicated but I also would like it to be easy to use. It would be nice to have one button that turns both monitors. I think if I power them from the same radio control power switch then it will be fine. I would like Amy be able to have “one button approach” to the playback if she want to listen something. I would like also to have a full blown pilot functionally for myself.

I will pick in basement some monitors and try to use them tonight with a dedicated separate amp.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 241
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 211
Post ID: 18997
Reply to: 18996
Directionality
fiogf49gjkf0d
The only advantage your pilot could have over Macondo is omnidirectionality, no? So why not suspend from the ceiling something like this:

OCTAGON_SPEAKERS.jpg

02-12-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 212
Post ID: 18998
Reply to: 18997
I love it and I have no idea why I did not do it before.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 decoud wrote:
The only advantage your pilot could have over Macondo is omnidirectionality...

It might be a good idea under some circumstances but not truly necessary in my case. The way how the room our listening/living room is organized and the way how I envision to use the Pilot channel I have no need for omnidirectivity and the directivity of regular none-horn loudspeaker would be sufficient.

Last night I put a few small monitors that I had in basement and basement and just dumped them atop of Macondo ULF towers. None of the monitors were able to create some kind of filling sound in the room with exception of Celestion SL600. The SL600 slightly made nice and very balanced sound (in context) that would not require any complementary subwoofer, something that I did not expect from 6” driver. Hey also look fine atop of ULF and this is what I will leave for now. I just need to power them with a proper amp. The consumer 60W amp that I have now I think has not enough power.  I do not hear any clipping but I do hear that the SL600’s tweeter turns yellow at some passages – very first evidence on this type of tweeter that there is not enough power to drive this thing. I need to find some kind of 120-150W and I will be all set.

I need to say that it was very liberating to listen radio via the Pilot channel last night. I was listening the programs from NRK, Oslo, Norway, it was 384kbps48khz and it was some live event from northern Germany. The librating part is that it was just one button on a cheap SS and and the while room was “active” with music I wanted to be. When I left for supper I did not even care to shut the thing off. Amy was staying in Portsmouth last nig and she did not see my new “invention” but I am sure she will be very welcoming to it and I do not think that she would acknowledge the difference.

Usually the way how it works: I listen some of broadcast and I typically have my background recorder is running. If I find anything worthy then I save the background file and just extract the kbps file from the cue-sheet of the saved file. I do not listen anything lover then 128kbps. The 128-192kbps still not good but the opportunity to hear “interesting” music is too tempting for me.

I do very welcome the revival of my Pilot system and Mini-Me configuration. It was too stupid to run while Macondo for hours juts to listen kbps feeds. Not to mention that it will same some electricity cost and tubes life but it certainly will be a huge benefit during summer time.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-13-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 159
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 213
Post ID: 19001
Reply to: 18998
But why do you need another pilot system when
fiogf49gjkf0d
you already have one, which is Tannoy Red in enclosure ? You just need to figure out the way to use it independently via some remote
speaker switch to switch amps (if needed )and that's all . Isn't it good enough or what?
Regards, W
02-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 214
Post ID: 19025
Reply to: 8138
Injection Pilot?
fiogf49gjkf0d
The idea just came to my mind and it is in a way brilliant. It is not implementable in my playback because my Injection Channel is driver by 1/6 of 6ch Milq and because my Injection Channel is high-passed.  However the idea is still conceptually very elegant.

Pretend you have a multi-amp multi-channel and pretend that you have discovered a need/benefit to use an Injection Channel. Why do not combine Injection Channel and Pilot Channel into the same physical channel? All that is necessary is to make Injection Channel more or less full-range to be able to care the Pilot duty.

Theoretically it would not be hard to do in my playback if I put a relay in use and at the time when I use Pilot Channel it might engage a different amp and bypass the high-pass filters. I will not implement it as I do not want to drive Tannoy red full range but still, the idea as a concept might be useful for someone….

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 11 of 11 (214 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 7 8 9 10 11
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Suggested target curves and setup techniques for Pro Au..  Contacting Thorsten...  Didital Things  Forum     9  90120  03-23-2005
  »  New  “A” sound from “B” system?..  Re: “A” sound from “B” system?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     13  98295  05-22-2005
  »  New  A quest for a better monitor...  Dome tweeters and brightness in SL600...  Audio Discussions  Forum     97  709848  06-08-2006
  »  New  Rightsizing from extreme systems......  It is Hot! The summer playback...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  51196  06-17-2006
  »  New  Monitors: Wishful thinking..  Digital crossover...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  76365  07-23-2006
  »  New  Cool running AB amplifier.. with good sound...  How about more current integrateds?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     11  77104  07-25-2006
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  334543  12-22-2006
  »  New  The inflatable speakers dumping and no only...  Labyrinth?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  49344  05-30-2007
  »  New  The foolishness of multiple playback systems...  The foolishness of multiple playback systems....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  11136  04-09-2008
  »  New  Help to identify the LF driver...  Shell I install some kind of finding award? I might…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  19440  09-06-2008
  »  New  The low-power SET and dead speakers..  Expiring Cygnets (Back to Bass-ics)...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  22248  01-18-2009
  »  New  Off-the-wall playback or the 'hamster solution'...  Spacial information...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  35472  02-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo listening experience..  Actually I disagree with your assessment....  Playback Listening  Forum     4  37379  06-16-2009
  »  New  Yamaha B-2 V-FET amplifier...  I do like my B-2...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  133914  07-20-2009
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