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  »  New  It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity...  Does input ac affect output of PurePower regen?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1633  5974239  10-12-2006
02-03-2009 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 9623
Reply to: 9623
The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!
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The readers of my site who are frustrated about audible quality of electricity are familiar with a very clever electricity processor called “Avicenna” that I mentioned in the “It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity” thread. Who missed it and have interest can get it via search:

http://www.romythecat.com/Search.aspx?Phrase=Avicenna

It turns out that Avicenna absolutely flawlessly and absolutely naturally cures electricity from all imaginable distortions and noises and feeds equipment with an absolutely perfect sinusoid.  It is also turns out the Avicenna has absolutely no impact of sound – whatever good or bad it was it sound absolutely the same after the Avicenna. So, according to all measures the Avicenna failed to do it’s jobs: who need a power processor that does not affect sound? So, why do I discard Avicenna as a success? Well, Avicenna proves that distortion and noises of power lines have absolutely no relation with auditable characteristics of electricity.

There are many other factors that point out to this conclusion. Avicenna outputs let say no distortions but has zero impact to sound. What does it say? It says that Avicenna is perfectly designed and executed to deal ONLY with distortion and do not affect anything else, that might be in fact affective to quality of sound. Did you pay attention that if during those 2-3 days per year when you system sound perfect powered from the wall you actual electricity has the very same amount of distortions as during the rest of the year? I would not even mention the fact that we use rectified DC in our electrical components and any residue of AC problems on the amp’s output is at million dBs down then the distortions of amplifiers or loudspeaker.

So, I think that there is something else and I dedicate this thread to this “something else”.  There is something else that is NOT distortions or harmonics of AC career. Let the hypothesis of this there be the believe that if our power correction or regenerating devises do improve sound then they do it not because they correct sinusoid but because they do accidently do something else. What would it be? I do not know now and I did not see anybody ever this about it. Let it to be changed.

I think the conceptualizing of the hypothesis above is the main accomplishment and the main triumph of the Avicenna power possessor.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 496
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 2
Post ID: 9626
Reply to: 9623
How do power conditioners work?
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 Romy the Cat wrote:
It turns out that Avicenna absolutely flawlessly and absolutely naturally cures electricity from all imaginable distortions and noises and feeds equipment with an absolutely perfect sinusoid; It is also turns out the Avicenna has absolutely no impact of sound – whatever good or bad it was it sound absolutely the same after the Avicenna. Avicenna proves that distortion and noises of power lines have absolutely no relation with auditable characteristics of electricity.
First, I do not accept the hypothesis. We must confirm that the Avicenna was working correctly when no impact on the sound was made. It has happened before that a simple mistake in observation led to a faulty hypothesis. It must be confirmed again, as with any scientific experiment.

Second, the nature of how the sound changes with power conditioners should be characterized and compared to how the sound changes the insertion of other devices into the AC power. This will lead to a hypothesis.

Third, these devices may be "cleaning" the electricity in a way not seen on a simple oscilloscope. So we must ask, what is NOT seen on the oscilloscope?

Adrian
02-03-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 9627
Reply to: 9626
This is the whole question.
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 drdna wrote:
First, I do not accept the hypothesis. We must confirm that the Avicenna was working correctly when no impact on the sound was made. It has happened before that a simple mistake in observation led to a faulty hypothesis. It must be confirmed again, as with any scientific experiment. 

Actually there is nothing in my view that needs to be confirmed. Avicenna measures real time distortions at input and output, even more outs it to scope. I do not know what other scientific experiments are necessary it is enough to convince me. The definition of “Avicenna working correctly” is absents of distortions of any bandwidth in output. Avicenna does it and consequently outputs a perfect sinusoid. However, it is important to remember that Avicenna does not do anything else besides dealing with distortions, at least below 200kHz.

 drdna wrote:
Second, the nature of how the sound changes with power conditioners should be characterized and compared to how the sound changes the insertion of other devices into the AC power. This will lead to a hypothesis.
Actually, I do not think so. If we do so then we would examine the type of implementation instead of the concept of execution. One of the kinkiest things in Avicenna is that it processing amplifier does not recognizes load. It is what Dima spent 3 months to invent. Have you even seen an amp that has lower distortions to drive 10uf capacitor then a resistive load?

 drdna wrote:
Third, these devices may be "cleaning" the electricity in a way not seen on a simple oscilloscope. So we must ask, what is NOT seen on the oscilloscope?

Well, what we see in oscilloscope is only distortions. The deviation of sinusoid from it’s perfect shape is the presence of sinusoid of other frequencies then the fundamental. The Avicenna takes care about that. So, rephrasing your question: what else might be fixed that NOT seen on the oscilloscope/distortion analyzer? This is the main question.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 9628
Reply to: 9623
No one knows anything
fiogf49gjkf0d
I received an email from a visitor who is involved into the electricity fight and he pointed out that my hypothesis might or might not be accurate only in context of eliminated large distortions. According to him the very high levels of harmonic distortions, let say over 10%, do invariably damaging sound. I would agree with it though the threshold of 5%, 10% or 15% might be arguable. Usually anything above 1-2% is visible via analog scope… It is still interesting to see a power regenerator for instance that outputs 5-10% harmonic distortions but sounds great. Well, from another perspective we do listen SET amps that have 5-7% of harmonic distortions and de do not complain. I have to note that SET amps have 5% of harmonic distortions in speakers and it is actually the signal. In case of power distortions, they are very severally attenuated by many-many things...

As Tony Soprano use to say: no one knows anything…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 496
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 5
Post ID: 9629
Reply to: 9627
The scientific method
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 Romy the Cat wrote:
 drdna wrote:
First, I do not accept the hypothesis. We must confirm that the Avicenna was working correctly when no impact on the sound was made. It has happened before that a simple mistake in observation led to a faulty hypothesis. It must be confirmed again, as with any scientific experiment.
Actually there is nothing in my view that needs to be confirmed.
I am saying there is something about the setup that may have allowed you to listen to a "dirty" waveform, when you thought it was "clean." There are many examples in science of such mistakes. A recent popular one is "cold fusion." It is just important to get independent confirmation of the results, because the result is surprising and would be revolutionary in approach.

The answer to what makes electricity "clean" if it is not the perfect sinusoid is also hinted at with the bad sounding lithium battery bias.

Adrian
02-03-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 9630
Reply to: 9629
How much mater maters and what is mater?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Adrian, isn’t it exactly what I am proposing? My (and I believe anybody’s else) definition of “clean electricity” was and is concentrated around the absence of waveform distortion. I do not think that we have other “scientific” classification of what “clean electricity” might be. What I propose is that the absence of distortion might not be relevant at all, at least up to a certain point.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 15178
Reply to: 9623
Where to find mica sheets?
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Last week since the PP2000 did not work I was trying to put the Dima’s Avicenna Regenerator together. It did not sound right even in it’s best time but at least I have full control over it and I can do something with it. The reason the Avicenna Regenerator generator was abandon was that 2008 version of PP2000 did so well that I had no need for other options. (BTW my idea of motor-generator was abandoned foe the same reasons). Since the PP2000 begin to give difficulties and I do not know how long it will take for PurePower to fix the problem:

http://www.RomyTheCat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=15163 

I think to put the Avicenna back to service. Now I kind of slowly am putting it back together. Two year back I order a custom male last heat sink that was done and now I need to mount the Avicenna board on the new 1000W heat sink.  I have problem with it. I need to decouple the Avicenna’s thik copper plate from all transistors that I will mount on it but I do not like to use the individual mica or silicon cut-off pads that people sell anywhere. I would like to have a sheet of 0.2mm mica to lie atop of my 1” copper plate and then to mount the thing above mica.

2 years back I knew sources that supply mica sheets but now they are gone. I fond mica sheets in Poland and India but I need something in US that can be shipped right the way. Is anyone who do soldering knows any supply house that care mica sheets? I would need a sq foot that I would make from 2-4 sheets. Any pointers are appreciated…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 184
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 8
Post ID: 15179
Reply to: 15178
Is muscovite mica ok?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy:

Does it matter whether it is Phlogopite or muscovite mica sheets? There is a company here in the Uk that has only the muscovite in stock, thickness being 0.2mm (and upwards). You can find them here.

http://www.elelco.co.uk/mica-sheets.php

Regards
rakesh
11-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 17389
Reply to: 9623
New life for Avicenna
fiogf49gjkf0d
The Avicenna power devise is not operational nowadays, I did screw it up a few months ago, not operationally by other more barbaric way. Anyhow, It is back with Dima now, I am sure he will repair it. For a time being I found another interesting way to use the Avicenna heat sink. I place it atop of one burner of my cook top and I am tell you that it make phenomenally effective room heater. My kitchen in the mid of the house and if kitchen is worm then heat is very nicely distributed across my listening room that is opened to kitchen.

AvicennaHeater.JPG

This type of heating is extremely nice as it is 100% efficient, has no noise, not impact to humidity, very reliable and no smell. I can cook the bottom copper play up to 600F and in 15 min as it reaches the cruse temperate (I keep it at 500F) it is stunningly effective; it for some reasons is more effective than just an opon burner(!!!), even though it used the same amount of gas – I have no idea why.  It has also that cool effect of “worm spot”, like a fireplace….  Sure it has nothing to do with audio but thought o share with my stupid thrill….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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