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04-14-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 1
Post ID: 898
Reply to: 898
Romy's Horns

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I am reading through those interesting threads.

I have just won a pair of S2 on ebay so I am interested in horns for them. I have fired an email to Vitavox Peter and I will get his
diaphragms. Since my drivers are in UK, maybe he could have a look at them and perhaps recharge the magnets.
 
Peter's S2 diaphragms have plastic surround. Interestingly, Japanese Goto, ALE and TAD 2001 drivers use plastic surrounds with Titanium and Beryllium diaphragms. I wonder if the plastic surround takes away some of the bad Titanium sound. The plastic surround would also explain why people seem like TAD 2001 more than 4001 which has a metal surround. 
 
Romy's horns are made by John Hasquin. I have met John at MAF in Lima 3 years ago. I know his horn theories and his approach to horn design. Romy you say on your web site that your horns are made from soft wood. Did you mean MDF? (John uses MDF while others do not like it since it is dead sounding. When I spoke with Dr. Edgar, he mentioned that at first he used maple for his salad bowl horns. He said that they had a bit of ring to them. Now he uses soft poplar and they supposedly do not ring. Balsa would be very soft but also light. I would like the horns to be quite heavy so that their resonance is below the lowest horn frequency.)
 
Romy, what are horn flare frequencies of your horns? I understand that both are Tractrix.
My guess is that the midbass is 125Hz with a sealed rear chamber and 4" throat. Correct? 
 
What is the mid horn flare frequency? (I saw 2 numbers).
 
Any other hints to make these horns?

I have a new pair of Martin Seddon 205Hz horns calculated according to JM LeCleac'h's
expansion (very similar to Tractrix). I will use them at first for midbass. But I really want them to
go an octave lower. I will have to have such horns turned locally. After a lot of searching I have found 2 people in Canada willing to turn up to 48". (I sort of remember that John retired from horn turning till his wife finishes school. Or was it after he turned your midbasses, Romy?  :-) )
 
Best regards,
 
TonyB
04-14-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,535
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 900
Reply to: 898
Not Romy's but your horns

 TonyB wrote:
Romy, what are horn flare frequencies of your horns? I understand that both are Tractrix. My guess is that the midbass is 125Hz with a sealed rear chamber and 4" throat. Correct?
They tunes for 115Hz and pushed in room down to ~95Hz one channel and 150Hz another. 
 TonyB wrote:
What is the mid horn flare frequency? (I saw 2 numbers).
I have currently 400hz. I presented in this thread a lot of data to make own decision, still it would depends only from what kind upper bass solution you will be using. Would your upperbass horn at 700Hz be good and S2 at 700Hz?  Do you think anyone would tell you? Do you thienk you will be able to tell yourself until you build it?  :-)
 TonyB wrote:
I have a new pair of Martin Seddon 205Hz horns calculated according to JM LeCleac'h's expansion (very similar to Tractrix). I will use them at first for midbass. But I really want them to go an octave lower.
The 200Hz horn would do 400Hz of sound and it is hardly a midbass horn. It sound to me more like it is candidate to use S2 with a lower crossover point and higher order filter. Still. Tony do not worry about the S2 utilization unit you define what tha upper bass would be.  Remember, the upperbass is the most important range and it should have a very smooth translation into the S2. The upper bass is the region where the most of the fundamentals of instrument and voices live and there is no such a thing as too good upper bass channel...

Romy The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 3
Post ID: 933
Reply to: 900
Still Romy's horns

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Hi Romy,

You wrote:
"They tunes for 115Hz and pushed in room down to ~95Hz one channel and 150Hz another."

So do your horns have 115Hz flare frequency? (and have the rear chamber tuned for 115Hz as well)

From the pictures the horns look like that they are made from MDF. Is this correct?

I fully agree that the midbass is the most important (and also the most difficult to get right). I am thinking about starting with your Fane Studio 8M. I like to build on what others did. Could you, please, tell what midbass drivers did you try and which did not work as well as Studio 8M? It would be very educational. Purely on gut feeling, I would like to try Supravox 285 in field coil version. The problem with fieldcoil in a closed chamber is the heat generated. The advantage of a fieldcoil driver is that one can tune the driver by varying the fieldcoil voltage. It is much more money than Studio 8M and I would likely repeat your search process. So I better stick with Studio 8M.

What is the impedance of Studio 8M? Its RE=6.2Ohms so I guess it is an 8Ohm driver. Interestingly, I found somebody with 16Ohm Studio 8M. And what is the sensitivity? I have seen as different numbers as 91dB and 101dB.

Your current system without a tweeter is in some respects similar to JM LeCleac'h's system: he also now runs mostly without a tweeter with TAD2001 on a 380Hz horn. He adds a tweeter only when more people come to get a wider sweet spot.

Regards,

TonyB
04-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,535
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 935
Reply to: 933
RE: Still Romy's horns

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 TonyB wrote:
So do your horns have 115Hz flare frequency? (and have the rear chamber tuned for 115Hz as well)

They are 35”. Do your math. The back chamber tuned at 115Hz.

 TonyB wrote:
From the pictures the horns look like that they are made from MDF. Is this correct?

Yes, they are

 TonyB wrote:
I fully agree that the midbass is the most important (and also the most difficult to get right). I am thinking about starting with your Fane Studio 8M. I like to build on what others did.

Pretty much all the you need to decide what size of the throat are you wiling to target and it will describe all the rest. The Studio 8M work Ok for small throats but if you go for 6”-8” throats then you might look at the different drivers. Be advised that the Studio 8M is effectively 5”-6” driver as it has the outer-suspension very wide.

 TonyB wrote:
Could you, please, tell what midbass drivers did you try and which did not work as well as Studio 8M? It would be very educational.

I was buying and trying all possible 8” and 10” drivers that would be horn-complied (or even not). I would not recall all of them as some of them had no even name to remember.

 TonyB wrote:
Purely on gut feeling, I would like to try Supravox 285 in field coil version. The problem with fieldcoil in a closed chamber is the heat generated. The advantage of a fieldcoil driver is that one can tune the driver by varying the fieldcoil voltage. It is much more money than Studio 8M and I would likely repeat your search process. So I better stick with Studio 8M.

Yes, the heat dissipation form the back chamber is a problem. Also, the varying the field-coil voltage is kind of tricky because it do affect how the driver sound and does affect it’s sensitively.

 TonyB wrote:
What is the impedance of Studio 8M? Its RE=6.2Ohms so I guess it is an 8Ohm driver. Interestingly, I found somebody with 16Ohm Studio 8M. And what is the sensitivity? I have seen as different numbers as 91dB and 101dB.

I ordered 16R version form manufacturer. The driver has 103dB sensitively without horn

Rgs,
The Cat

PS: This thread is splitting of the “Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide” thread.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 1 of 1 (4 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  A typical convention......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     123  924386  07-16-2004
  »  New  Macondo Horns: biography...  Macondo with Pussy Eyes....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  45317  05-18-2005
  »  New  Russian mythology and Horn loudspeakers..  The Nutcracker horn...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     9  80172  10-02-2005
  »  New  Macondo copying: Horns troubleshooting..  True RTA and Windows trouble...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     24  150379  12-26-2006
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  No wonder...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     72  399597  07-29-2007
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