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12-20-2007 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 6153
Reply to: 6153
The leather-suspended drivers.

The 6moons just announced that that The Orgue Company made 6.5" driver after the similar Mitsubishi driver:

"The original Diatone P-610 was made by Mitsubishi beginning in 1947 until 1992. The Diatone P-610 has sold widely in the world for 50 years and been popularly used by millions of people. The Diatone P-610 we currently produce is made by Orgue on the same production line that Mitsubishi used while we have improved frequency response and power handling." Orgue also makes the Mini and Reference monitors employing this driver, with the latter claiming a response of 38Hz-20kHz at 98dB.”

DIATONE-P-610S.jpg

I deal neither with Orgue driver nor with Mitsubishi drivers but my hat off for any company that tries to use leather suspension. Lather is extremely interesting material for suspension and if the paper/leather transition is done properly then it serves very beneficially, practically free from any known suspension colorations.

Rgs, the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-21-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,052
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 6156
Reply to: 6153
"That" Diatone?
I seem to remember a "Diatone" driver in some sort of "Helmholz" box (or maybe a "double box") that was supposedly developed by the Post War Japan Broadcasting Company, or something like that.  Quite slow and "forgiving", but also interesting tone and "character" in the mid band.  If the thing did either 38 Hz or 20k Hz you couldn't prove it by me.  I thought it had paper suspension, though (but then, I'm old...).

Might make a killer "injection" speaker...

Best regards,
Paul S
12-21-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 3
Post ID: 6159
Reply to: 6153
Distasteful
What a contrast between the noble understatement of the Diatone and these pimp spekers.
12-21-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 6160
Reply to: 6153
Forget the Diatone – the leather suspension is the key interest.
I did not use/had Diatone and I do not know a lot about them. Still, I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that Diatone did not use leather suspension. This new Orgue driver does use leather and it is what I found interesting in it. The Orgue driver might be very poor driver, I do not know… But I would like see more companies experiencing with leather suspension.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-26-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 172
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 5
Post ID: 6195
Reply to: 6153
Orgue
Hello,

My first post here.

I was the one who emailed the news about Orgue to 6m.
I bought a pair of their Reference speakers and am quite happy with the way they partner my Shig integrated.

They sound rich and clean but I'd say they are a little optimistic abut the 98dB.
20kHz seems pretty close, though. I'm still going through the burn in period but bass is now pretty full and crisp.
The drivers are made in the U.S. and can be bought separately. The boxes are made in Southeast China.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Tuga

P.S.: More info on the Diatone P-610:

http://www.audio-heritage.jp/DIATONE/unit/index.html

http://haute.fidelite.com.online.fr/c-club-LB.html

http://www.audiotekne.com/en/index.html

http://www.vt4c.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1268

http://www.audionautes.com/Altriprodotti/Diatone/DataP-610.htm


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
12-26-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 6200
Reply to: 6195
Audio-tekne's "Tone Quality Improvement technique"

Thanks you, Tuga. I care less about the Diatone drivers and was attracted only by the leather suspension. Anyhow, among the links that you posted there is one that actually made me to navigate further and eventually to read:

http://www.audiotekne.com/en/policy_index.html

Surely I disagree with many moments of the writing but still it was better presentation of company philosophy then uselessly…

Rgs, Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-27-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 172
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 7
Post ID: 6203
Reply to: 6200
Exotic materials
Hi Romy,

If you're into exotic materials check out the latest wideband driver from SEAS with papyrus fibre impregnated paper cones:

http://www.seas.no/images/stories/exotic/pdf_datasheet/seas_exotic_press_release.pdf

Cheers,
Tuga


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
06-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
haralanov


Bulgaria
Posts 130
Joined on 05-20-2008

Post #: 8
Post ID: 10785
Reply to: 6153
Leather suspension and the Tone
fiogf49gjkf0d
In my view the leather as a suspension material is absolutely spectacular and this is because it's mechanical impedance is very close to that of the cone (of course made of fine paper) and there is no energy reflected from the surround back to the voice coil former causing standing waves in the driver's diaphragm...
It must be flat as a profile and maximally streched toward to driver's chassis. This technique does not allow Xmax more than 1-2mm, but the sound is really really wonderful.

Yesterday I listened to very old 12" Blaupunkt driver from 30's which has really amazing tonal qualities. When I tapped the paper with my finger and then the leather, there was almost no difference between the two sounds from these materials... Here is a close shot of the leather surround:


IMG_0460.jpg

This is the driver:

IMG_0423.jpg

Regards,
Haralanov





"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." -A.E.
07-01-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 10954
Reply to: 10785
The duck’s leather?
fiogf49gjkf0d

The leather suspension IS a spectacular material, I agree. I would say that it is a spectacular material for relatively long throw drivers, the drivers that work in open baffles as so on.

There is a community of people who strong supporters of leather suspension and they take good drivers and change the suspension to leather. I think the Russian-German Oleg Rulit does it as few others; the leather suspension always was very popular in Russia.

I ma not using leather suspension as I have no topological need in it but if I were in a “wide rage drivers” domain then I would play with leather.

However, let do not forget that leather suspension has also two negative moments. First is that leather is greatly change with time and it is absorbs moisture. The degree to which leather doe it ware with the way leather manufactured and how it was processed.  Of you look for leather manufacturing prosees:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather

then you realize that a simple piece of leather is very complex and in many cases not well normalized  chemical compound.  The phrase “not well-normalized” in my view is the key. I am sure that the leather production standards are perfect to make a good leather jacket but I do not think that the people who produce leather care about the speed of sound propagation across leather and to keep THAT standard. Also, I do not know if the flexibility of leather per thickness is standartiried to a degree as it might be important to out drivers to maintain the targeted driver Q. In the driver conversion we uselessly get leather “whatever we can get” not to mention that we do not care how our leather performs next year.

From what said I think the direction that some manufactures go I feel is also very perspective. Some manufactures produce suspension that is sort of mix between rubber, leather and foam. Foam eats a lot of good vibrations, rubber has too much inertia, leather is not stable. I have seen some suspensions when I was touching it as I was not able to say it is was rubber, leather or foam. I still have no idea what it was… it might be heavy mineralized leather as well. For instance the 4.5” bass drivers that I use foe MiniMe have leather suspensions, at least it is what I say. I am sure that it is not leather but a very cheap syntactic material but if it walks like a duck and quacks like is duck then who care if it is not a duck?

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zycomatique
Posts 3
Joined on 08-17-2009

Post #: 10
Post ID: 11446
Reply to: 10954
The leather suspension maker
fiogf49gjkf0d

Hello,

Do you have a link to contact Oleg the leather suspension maker?

David

08-17-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 11447
Reply to: 11446
Try the field-coil.com
fiogf49gjkf0d

David,

You can trace him from his commercial site

http://www.field-coil.com

I do know if it his site but he most likely hangs around there. I think that field-coil.com is rather a group of people with certain interest and certain agenda then just one guy. Anyhow you might take it from there. We corresponded I would say 10 years back and at that time he was in Germany.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zycomatique
Posts 3
Joined on 08-17-2009

Post #: 12
Post ID: 11448
Reply to: 11447
Orgue link
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks a lot!

Do you have a link too of the Orgue enterprise?

Have a good day: David

08-17-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 172
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 13
Post ID: 11452
Reply to: 11448
Orgue contact
fiogf49gjkf0d
 zycomatique wrote:

Thanks a lot!

Do you have a link too of the Orgue enterprise?

Have a good day: David



Hi David,

Try contacting Luk at webmaster(a)leyun-music.com.

Cheers,
Ric


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
08-17-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zycomatique
Posts 3
Joined on 08-17-2009

Post #: 14
Post ID: 11453
Reply to: 11452
Thanks
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks! I've just done it!
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