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  »  New  “Harmonic Speed”- friend of foe?..  Speed, control and SET harmonics...  Playback Listening  Forum     6  33952  01-31-2005
  »  New  The elusive “absolute tone”...  Breeze......  Playback Listening  Forum     24  121572  07-28-2005
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  »  New  It is about timbres, stupid...  It is about timbres, stupid....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  8467  02-23-2009
  »  New  Other Ways of getting Special Tone from a loudspeaker...  Paul S....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  45757  11-27-2009
11-15-2007 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,249
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 5874
Reply to: 5874
About TTH characteristic in Audio

I have written somewhere that 2 years ago I was fascinated with a notion of intellectual equation many ingredients of perceived Sound into one universal formulation that would objectively evaluate performance of a playback system.  It was a very long and very complex equation that was derivative of assessments at all six levels of listening perception:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=50#50

The methodology that I was developing at that time, milking listening reaction at each level, cross-equating them with some other factors was truly amazing. However, I faced eventually problems with all that “data” and all those thoughts. Having a lot of semi-applicable elements I had very difficult time to relate them via mathematical equations. I knew exactly and very precise in min awareness how the parameters related but I did not know what mathematical progression that relation might be described with. The simple relations did not always work and I have very rudimental knowledge about higher mathematics. Eventually looking at over 40 different equitable only in my mind parameters I decided do not think about it anymore. It is very typical for me – since I have my own internals evidence of facts I abandon needs to materialize the “tangible” proof in order to “sell” it to others. With my “Universal Formula of Sound Assessment” it might not be the case as it would be fun to have it around but to get anything useable out of my notion it would require to plug into the research some mathematicians, paying them… and since I do it as “hobby” I am not willing to go further… particularly since in my consciousness I “get” the answers…

So, how TTH relates to that entire story? Well, it very directly flows out of it. If you read the above-mentioned article then you know that perception of musical event (or any artistic event) stratified upon 7 levels, for the sake of simplicity let to drop the last one – so it will six levels

1)     Static perception
2)     Dynamic perception
3)     Emotional perception
4)     Esthetic perception
5)     Ethical perception
6)     Re-Creative perception

The TTH an “abstract–simplification” characteristic that operates at Static (mostly) and Dynamic levels. Why “abstract characteristic”? Because I am not willing at this point to prove any concrete binding of TTH with anything else and I am not giving up any objective methodology to determine the utter values of TTH components. Why “simplification characteristic”? Because the 3 ingredient of TTH are NOT atomic ingredients but they rather a virtual composition of a few others ingredients.  I juts a month or two ago end up with this abstract –simplification and I do found it very simple and useful - that is why I share it with you. So, after all, what the TTH is all about?

TTH is a mental abstraction in a one bundle: “Transient, Tone and Harmonics” (TTH). Linguistically TTH might be presented as something like this: “Sound that pursuits maximum Transients and maximum Absolute Tone, while maintaining proper Harmonics”.  Yes, I know: the Absolute Tone operates partially at Lever #4 but let disregard if for a sake of simplicity.

So, we have a very fragile balance of Transient, Tone and Harmonics. Surely maximum Transient (with derivative Dynamics) is almost very welcomed but it is ONLY acceptable if sound develops the necessary supporting Harmonics. The value of those harmonics and their meaning fluctuate with dynamic pointer, along with a few other thing but let discard it and just accept that Transient/ Harmonics balance should be “proper” (VERY loaded statement). They we plug in Tone. The Tone obviously tries to pursuit it’s max value but it restricted and at the same time in-riched by Transient/ Harmonics outcome. Tone might be a catalyst for Transient/ Harmonics success or Transient/ Harmonics might use tone as catalyst. The Tone and Transient/ Harmonics might be not DIRECTLY related. (They related via other things that I would like aside for now).  Still, the entire Transient, Tone and Harmonics (TTH) BALANCE is very objective and very powerful indication of Sound.

It is very important do NOT assign to the “abstract and simplified TTH” any absolute values and to keep it more as “awareness tool”. However, it is also very important to understand that TTH D … DOES have an absolute value.  In a simple was TTH might be presented as:

 TTH =Transients/ Harmonics * Tone

where Harmonics are measured on a scale from 0 to 1. However, in this simplification there is no need for any absolute numbers and I inclined to “sell” TTH as “perceived property”.

If you wish to experiment with TTH characteristic in your mind and educate own perception then you could start with simple case: performance assessment of individual drivers of loudspeakers. Eventually you might learn to observe the TTH characteristic of entire playback (or live event).

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-15-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,037
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 5875
Reply to: 5874
As a process
And then we also have a reasonable basis for practical choice/decision making versus the hinted-at (but undefined, of course) Absolute, which practically speaking becomes a +/- moving target, if only because of the relative nature of perception.

I am interested to hear more about the speciific relationship between the "elements" (as opposed to the "variables").

Best regards,
Paul S
Page 1 of 1 (2 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  How to evaluate playback... or the Six-Leveled-Listenin..  Introduction to Level #2 - the Dynamic Level...  Playback Listening  Forum     3  42213  06-12-2004
  »  New  “Harmonic Speed”- friend of foe?..  Speed, control and SET harmonics...  Playback Listening  Forum     6  33952  01-31-2005
  »  New  The elusive “absolute tone”...  Breeze......  Playback Listening  Forum     24  121572  07-28-2005
  »  New  Ways to use audio methods...  Classical Music and Video lines....  Playback Listening  Forum     10  48659  07-11-2006
  »  New  It is about timbres, stupid...  It is about timbres, stupid....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  8467  02-23-2009
  »  New  Other Ways of getting Special Tone from a loudspeaker...  Paul S....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  45757  11-27-2009
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