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10-03-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree

Chicago, IL
Posts 174
Joined on 06-12-2009

Post #: 1
Post ID: 23438
Reply to: 23438
The path of simplification (a horn system)
Now that the preliminary excitement of my ingenious idea wore off, I'm ready to share it and accept the harsh reality of any shortcomings... but seriously.
For a while now, I've been been working on optimally integrating my 3 channel horn system + subs. Fundamentally, even with the help of DSP crossover, there is the fact that it's just a physically large system in a 500 sq ft room, and I can only do so much to until hitting the wall of getting a small sweet spot, outside of which the wholeness of the sound starts falling apart. Also, with family and kids, the though if having a more compact, simple system is becoming more and more appealing, and from the aesthetic perspective, more elegant.

So, I have been conceptualizing a variation of a hybrid horn system to address the above issues, which boil down to scaling down a physically large horn system to a more manageable package.  Of course, the largest and most problematic part of a full horn system -- the midbass horn, has to be replaced by the next best thing in my view -- a good 15" direct radiator. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the following concept that would replace a full horn system with as little compromise as possible, consisting of the following elements:
mid bass and tweeter --> 80-600hz + 8khz-20khz: large coaxial (such as a 15" Altec or Tannoy)
midrange --> 600hz-8khz: compression driver with horn
bass --> 20hz-80hz: sealed subwoofers
simple horn system.jpg simple horn system_side.jpg

Theoretically, and possibly in my simplified view, this configuration has some strong advantages: 
1.being relatively compact 
2.close spacing of acoustic centers, practically 2 point source from 80hz-20khz
3.ability to have physical time alignment
4.ability to use 6db/oct filters at line level.
5.overall decent efficiency of at least 98db (limited by the 15" coax)
Some pros/cons of this configuration, the way I see it: cons: the time alignment the coax (woofer/tweeter) is non-adjustable since the tweeter is stuck to the the back of the woofer. This is a bit of a bottle neck, unlike the physical adjustability of the rest of the channels in relation to each other. No horn loading below 600hz.pros: the 15" coax is not "stretched" to play the range that it's not good for. Hence the possible use of 6db/oct crossovers. An additional 15" mid can be added as a filler to "beef up" the upper bass range, and still keep the system with roughly the same footprint. Can be added to the subwoofer box, above the sub driver, for example.
And now, I am ready to hear your thoughts on this. Actually, I'd like to ask you guys for any productive criticism. What are the problems that you see?
10-03-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Posts 114
Joined on 04-14-2017

Post #: 2
Post ID: 23440
Reply to: 23438
1st order not in reality
Hi Gera
Problem i see, all drivers are bandpass with 2nd Order themselves by nature.  Horns even 4th sometimes/often.  Having a beautiful perfect transient first order crossover will not bring the same results on the output as ull get 3rd order ( or 5th) in the sum. So the time alignment in absolute phase is still there, but frequency dependend phase is still screwed Smile
Cheers  Josh 
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