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03-18-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
hagtech


Hawaii
Posts 117
Joined on 02-13-2006

Post #: 1
Post ID: 2199
Reply to: 2199
TAS article: start of the Hi-End Industry
I finally got around to reading this issue.  What suprised me even more than the horns were some of the comments in the interview / round table discussion they had with some dude from Wilson, one from Overture, and another guy.  Big honchos in the high-end industry.  Ok, what really shocked me was their cavalier attitude, or perhaps arrogance, regarding when hi-fi or hi-end started.  They did some analogies to wine and auto industries.  Their conclusion was that auto industry comparison is invalid since it's mature.  High-end is just beginning.  Something about David Wilson being one of the 'founders' of hi-end, and he's still alive.  Henry Ford isn't.

Holy cow!  These guys think they started high-end.  No mention of Marantz, Klipsch, Hafler, or companies like MacIntosh and Scott.  Or dozens others I'm sure you can come up with.  No nod to Edison (who I believe was the first audiophile) or Blumlein.  These TAS guys think we're still in a first generation. 

Well I'm not buying it.  I don't think high-end audio started with David Wilson.  Or am I the one on planet 9?

jh
03-18-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 2200
Reply to: 2199
The start of the Hi-End Industry

I did not read it, I rarely read those types of articles but what you describe is very common and very indicative for those people. They fly like butterflies from a manufacture to a manufacture, from dealer to dealer and from marketing campaign to marketing campaign, picking the very superficial and very shallow perceptions and views. Interesting that none of them, even if they do have the initial intentions for Sound, are looking for the actual results but ONLY for the supporting their position and status of being at the hub of the industry’s distribution.  It is not wonder that they consider themselves as bellybutton of audio but the beautiful part that they do not real users of audio. Look it is fine if people come across something that he is she impressed in audio and wiling to share. If sh/e has any audio and listening intelligence then it might be a good writing from a product users. But looks what those industry riders have instead of a normal audio-life. Let look at that retard Framer for instance. A few weeks ago some guy calculated the stats for the reviews and claimed that Framer published near 50 reviews a year. It is just the published reviews not to mention 3 times more equipment that the poor guy should hear in his home and filter out the manufactures that did not feed him. Can you pretend that in your installation you change components 2-3 times a week? Who the hell would care then what you think about a “new” component! No wonder that the sound of the Framer’s system is a subject of the mockery for anyone who was in his room.

The start of the High-End Industry? I do not think that audio High -End even started as the TAS’ level. Really, the High End is not about the big prices or but big attitude of the cretins who run the industry but about the High -End Results, or the actual Sound. As far I know the TAS demo room is very revoltingly sounds and the people who do that manganese are not really about the Results but more about making the important faces and puff themselves from pomposity

I do not know when High-End started. There are some evidence that Germans tried ”something: in mid of the 1930. RCA, Western Electric, and many others also tried to do “better” audio during that time. However, do not think that it was shaped as the Industry at that time. Me personally, I feel that the mass conception of benefits of the “better sound” started from the Walt Disney’s "Fantasia" with Stokowski. If I remember the production stated in 36-7s and was release in the 1940. In 1946-49 RCA and Western Electric built many 4-9-ways installations for highest possible public performance of the "Fantasia". I think that the "Fantasia” performances gave an injection to the public and the concept to the market that a better audio might do better saleable sound. It is not argument that (in US) RCA, Marantz, Klipsch, WE, Hafler, Dynaco, Bell, Westrex, Electro Voice, Altec, JBL, Dynaco, McIntosh, many others were in the very beginning…

Rgs,
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 3
Post ID: 2216
Reply to: 2200
Re: The start of the Hi-End Industry
There are some evidence that Germans tried ”something: in mid of the 1930. RCA, Western Electric, and many others also tried to do “better” audio during that time
Apparently Siemens was making stereo recordings in the early '40s already.
BTW, I have a reedition of a Beethoven piano 5 (Gieseking-Rother-SO of the 3rd Reich!!) from '44 if I remember correctly. It's stereo...
03-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 2226
Reply to: 2216
Re: Before the Wilsons and the HTML...

 Gregm wrote:
Apparently Siemens was making stereo recordings in the early '40s already.
BTW, I have a reedition of a Beethoven piano 5 (Gieseking-Rother-SO of the 3rd Reich!!) from '44 if I remember correctly. It's stereo...

Gregm,

You should be wrong.  How someone was able to make any stereo recordings in 40s if David Wilson, John Atkinson, the ringy Mike Framer were not born yet, the Sound by Singer and the Overture were not found yet and, since today the entire High-End is juts a random stream of HTML, the HTML was not even invented?

To be more serious the 1947-55 was one of my favorite recording time. I am not familiar with the Siemens recordings. Our Yankees did quite amusing things thought. I have a few records like below…

4735xbig.jpg



Rgs,
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-22-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 5
Post ID: 2229
Reply to: 2226
Re: Before the Wilsons and the HTML...
How someone was able to make any stereo recordings in 40s if David Wilson, John Atkinson, the ringy Mike Framer were not born yet...
Very good pointSmile!
Binaural (stereo) was patented in 1941 by EMI (Abbey Road studios). The record you show above is the first "wide-range" recording made -- where on earth did you find it?
Cheers
03-22-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 2231
Reply to: 2229
The history of stereophonic sound

The history of stereophonic sound

1881 - Clement Adler at the Paris Electrical Exhibition put "a series of 80 telephone transmitters across the stage at the Paris Opera and connected them by wires to telephone receivers in a suite of four rooms" in a local hotel where visitors could pick up a receiver for each ear and listen to the live transmision, but no sound was recorded.

1916 - Harvey Fletcher joined the Research Division of Western Electric Engineering Dept to work with Irving Crandall on hearing and speech, was director of acoustic research at Bell Labs 1927-49, built the Western Electric Model 2A hearing aid and a binaural headset in the 1920's, published the widely-read book Speech and Hearing in 1929 that analyzed the characteristics of sound. Fletcher would lead much of the research on binaural, or what later would be called "stereophonic" sound recording, at Bell Labs.

1931 - In December, Harvey Fletcher and Arthur C. Keller of Bell Labs with Leopold Stokowski used improved electrical recording equipment in the Academy of Music in Philadelphia to record and transmit monaural and binarual sound. Also in December, Alan Dower Blumlein filed a patent application in Britain for stereo recording.

1932 - March 12 Stokowski recorded his first stereo disc, Scriabin's "Poem of Fire" for Bell Labs in Philadelphia using vinyl rather than shellac, with the dynamic range extended to 60 db and response to 10,000 hz. The master disc was gold-coated by vacuum-sputtering. At first, for the Scriabin recording March 12, Bell had recorded two separate grooves for each channel, but later Arthur Keller in the patent #2,114,471 described the 45/45 method in one groove. The patent application was not filed until 1936 because Bell did not see an immediate commercial application of the method. Keller was unaware of Blumlein until the 1950s when his 45/45 system was re-invented by Westrex.

1933 - April 27 Stereoscopic sound was transmitted to the National Academy of Sciences and many invited guests at Constitution Hall, Washington. Transmission was over wire lines from the Academy of Music in Philadelphia and three channels were used with microphones respectively at left, center and right of the orchestra stage and loud speakers in similar positions in Constitution Hall. The orchestra in Philadelphia was conducted by Alexander Smallens while Dr. Stokowski in Washington manipulated the controls so as to enhance the music in accordance with his own views.

1934 - Jan. 19 Alan Blumlein recorded Thomas Beecham at the Abbey Road Studio in stereo, conducting Mozart's "Jupiter Symphony" with a vertical-lateral technique using a stylus to vibrated in 2 directions, first recording one channel of sound in a groove laterally and then recording another channel of sound in the same groove vertically.

1940 - Harvey Fletcher and Stokowski made another stereophonic demonstration at Carnegie Hall April 9 and 10, with recorded stereo music from a three-channel system using sound on film with a frequency range of 30 to 15,000 cps and a volume range of 120 decibels. A 4th track was used as a loudness playback control track. The New York Times reported April 10 "Sound Waves 'Rock' Carnegie Hall As Enhanced Music' Is Played" and "The loudest sounds ever created crashed and echoed through venerable Carnegie Hall last night as a specially invited audience listened, spellbound, and at times not a little terrified."

1945 - Decca's early stereo LPs used a Teldec/Neumann Stereo cutter to record one channel lateral and another vertical, each on the opposite wall of a groove; but the dual tracks could not be reproduced with heavy mono pickups on the turntables and record players.

1949 - General Motors asked Magnecord to make a stereo tape recorder to improve spatial analysis of automobile noise. Magnecord modified its PT-6 tape recorder that had been introduced in May 1948 at the National Association of Broadcasters show. This modified recorder was introduced at the 1949 Audio Fair in New York with two record/play heads 1.5 inches apart, each with its own amplifier.

1951 - Emory Cook made the first stereo recordings of railroad trains in the field for the LP titled "Rail Dynamics" demonstrated at the 1951 Audio Fair in New York.

1953 - The Robe had 4-track stereo sound; was the first CinemaScope film and led the release of 33 stereo films in 1953, but stereo failed to transform motion picture soundtracks and would not reappear until 1975 with Dolby optical stereo sound. The Robe used directional sound, footsteps of Roman Legions marching from right to left, thunder and wind and rain of the crucifixion scene. The first time off-screen voices are actually heard off-screen, when voices warn Marcellus of his ship departure to Judea. Only Fox and Todd-AO would record dialogue with directional sound. All other studios provided some music in stereo for magnetic soundtracks, but recorded voices and sound effects in mono.

1954 - Jan. 31, Edwin Armstrong jumped out of 10th floor window in Alpine, NJ, committing suicide due to the tangle of lawsuits over his invention in 1939 of FM radio (his wife Mariod continued the lawsuits of another 13 years and eventually won). FM radio with lower noise and greater frequency response than AM radio would be a major stimulus to the spread of stereo.

1954 - Murray Crosby demonstrated FM stereo multiplex system in his Syosset, Long Island, lab to 16 executives of RCA; his demo was the result of a request by Leopold Stokowski to David Sarnoff; this was the first time the executives heard stereo and it led to the issue of RCA prerecorded open-reel stereo tapes; No. 1 tape that sold for $18.95 was "Also Sprach Zarathustra" by Richard Strauss, recorded by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner using 2-track magnetic tape at 30 ips, 2 Neumann M-50 omnidirectinal mics 12 ft. high and placed 24 ft. apart with the orchestra in between.

1954 - Feb. 21, RCA made its first commercial stereo recording of a symphony when Jack Pfieffer and Leslie Chase went to Symphony Hall in Boston to record the "Damnation of Faust" by Berlioz with a RCA RT-11 two-channel tape recorder and two Neuman U-47 mics. This same month, EMI in London made "Stereosonic" recordings at its Abbey Road studio that were announced to the public in April 1955.

1954 - In May, Decca made its first stereo recordings at the Kingsway Hall studio for classical music recording in London with the "Decca tree" designed by Roy Wallace, using 3 directional cardioid-pattern Neuman KM-56 condensor mics suspended eleven feet above and slightly behind the conductor's platform on a cross-bar, pointed 30 degrees down to the orchestra and clustered tightly together to exclude reflected sounds from the sides and rear. The mixed signal was recorded on an Ampex 350-2 recorder at 15 ips.

1957 - Sept. 5 Westrex gave a private demonstration of its 45-45 stereo disc recording system. Shortly after, Haddy demonstrated the Decca V-L system to RCA. The Westrex system was publicly demonstrated at annual convention of the Audio Engineering Society in New York Oct. 11. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) adopted the Westrex system and the "full stereo record" (not compatible with mono records) with stylus tip of 0.7-1.0 mil radius and vertical force of 6 grams as the industry standard on March 25, 1958. High Fidelity components began to appear.

1958 - Oct. 18 the BBC began regular stereo broadcasts Saturday mornings

1960 - The dual bilateral light valve was developed, that allowed each side of an optical motion picture soundtrack to be modulated independently, allowing 2-channel stereo sound. The movie industry adopted stereo optical sound quickly, and it was the movie industry that pushed multichannel sound into home market.

1961 - April 19 FCC ruled in favor of the GE/Zenith stereo FM system rather than Crosby matrix system. Murray G. Crosby had worked for Edwin Armstrong and Crosby held 150 patents and wanted the FCC to adopt his stereo FM system that utilized the matrix principle (that of transmitting the sum signal L+R as the main channel modulation and the difference signal L-R as a subcarrier) rather than suppressed AM subcarrier principle (by Zenith & GE). WEFM in Chicago and WGFM in Schenectady began stereo FM broadcasting June 1.

1962 - 87 FM radio stations existed in 29 states and Canada, including 2 FM stations in New York City; John Koss was starting to promote his idea of individual stereo headphone listening, but few audio components had headphone jacks.

1968 - Sheffield Lab made the first modern direct disc recording, "Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues Volume One." No tape recorder was used and only a limited number of records was manufactured. Only one single point stereo tube mic designed by Sheffield Lab was used.

1970 - Quadraphonic sound used 4-channels, but produced an "antisocial" stereo sound that allowed only one listener to hear it correctly in the stereo seat, or "sweet spot." There was no center channel. Although it failed, the technology had a lasting effect, especially the JVC CD-4 system that recorded 4 discrete channels in the grooves of an LP record by extending the bandwidth to 50 khz. Stereo systems developed better cutting and pressing

From the “Recording Technology History” by Steve Schoenherr




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-20-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 5679
Reply to: 2199
Lynn Olson on History of High Fidelity
As most of the Lynn Olson’s thinking the article more portrays a secluded technological framework of the subject but it is still a very good read:

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/tinyhistory1.html

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-20-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 5680
Reply to: 2229
Stereo vs. Binaural

 Gregm wrote:
Binaural (stereo) was patented in 1941 by EMI (Abbey Road studios).

Gregm,

you are slightly confided in here. Stereo and Binaural are very different techniques and Binaural was invented long time ago before stereophony. Unfortunately stereophony was accepted by industry and got momentum, that itself has own merit for air listening…

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-30-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Andy Simpson
Posts 42
Joined on 10-21-2007

Post #: 9
Post ID: 5768
Reply to: 5680
....binaural....

I'm not sure if you should care but recently - at least within scientific circles - the term binaural has come to mean (more or less) dummy head - including pinnae (outer ears) - which includes interaural time & level differences, head-shape occlusion and significant (but not completely understood) 'spatial cues'. This kind of recording can only really be reproduced by headphone monitoring but is interesting nonetheless.

As far as I am concerned this kind of recording does not represent understanding of the hearing system, but rather an crude imitation applied without understanding, effective though it can be. Research in this area is painfully absent.

Andy

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  »  New  How audio started…...  Clarifying...  Audio Discussions  Forum     18  91782  01-21-2005
  »  New  His Master Voice’s Shaded Dog? Why not!..  His Master Voice’s Shaded Dog? Why not!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  7946  02-09-2005
  »  New  Valve Technology Timeline..  A good video about tubes making....  Audio Discussions  Forum     5  71504  06-18-2006
  »  New  The “Inverted High End Audio” ™..  God is in the Nuances...  Playback Listening  Forum     30  139037  10-08-2006
  »  New  American National Recording Registry..  BTW, I heard on BBC last night …...  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  43333  03-01-2007
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