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06-16-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 19511
Reply to: 19511
A sad day in Greece.
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmubmoEjHo
06-17-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,301
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 19512
Reply to: 19511
Yes, sad, but….
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, needed, it is a sad day in Greece but it is in a way... a reasonable day. For instance the Greek brass and woodwind players have full retirement at 50 and have then life-time and quite high pensions.  Looking at out American citizens who work well into their 80s I am trying to find some justice.

For sure I do not feel that Greece “deserve” it but I do feel that everything is factored in into the system.  We have two houses: in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.  In Massachusetts we pay flat 5.3% on all income state text, in New Hampshire we pay no income state tax and no sales tax. One might think that it is “fan” to live in New Hampshire. Well, it is BUT there is a LOT of VERY useful and valuable services that are just available in New Hampshire but available in “expensive” Massachusetts. What I am saying is that “nice” leaving has own hidden cost. When I see Greek trumpet player retires at 50 but Amy’s mom and dead both at 70s and still working I am wondering if the sad Greece day was kind of logical.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-14-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 211
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 3
Post ID: 21272
Reply to: 19512
The greek challenge?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Do any of you have one single greek symphonic recording? I know it is not fair to compare commercial success with artistic, but at the end of the day, recordings ARE a big part of the life blood of a performing ensemble.
When we add purpose to the list of desirable behaviours, we learn alot about the artistic focus. I think about interesting performances and with Greece, I am lost except for pan flute or piano.
Am I being too harsh? I think not. The word Symphony originates in Greece. The word symphony is derived from greek συμφωνία (symphonia), meaning " agreement or concord of sound",


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-14-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,301
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 21275
Reply to: 21272
There are many examples like this.
fiogf49gjkf0d
The reality is that quite many nations, even though they are completely fine nations in any other aspect, do not have ether own advanced symphonic presence of own high visibility symphonic musicians. I am sure we could name a other countries that has no big name orchestras or big names musicians. 
 
 For India to me India was a symphonic mystery where western symphonic music did not do well. For sure India is a huge and very old country with very substantial cultural weight. India has very powerful musical culture and many talented western musicians who…. made in west. In India itself it looks like western symphonic music dead. They have just one reportedly bad orchestra for the whole country that was found for them by somebody from Russians south-east and it is very pathetic for the nation of cultural magnitude the India unquestionably is. There are many examples like this… 
Rgs, Romy  
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 288
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 5
Post ID: 21281
Reply to: 21272
Greek recordings
fiogf49gjkf0d
Greek pressing plants did popular music not classical AFAIK. Actually Greek pressings of pop music are pretty good. The big companies like EMI and philips  had operations there in the post war era and their vinyl have good surfaces. for the most part. They also pressed quite a few records for surrounding countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

As for India, they had their own advanced classical tradition which probably inhibited the adoption of western symphonic music. That was not the case in the Far East where their classical traditions were much more restricted. Sadly of course Indian classical music is becoming extinct even in India paralleling the decline of western classical music elsewhere or even outpacing it.
10-19-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 211
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 6
Post ID: 21282
Reply to: 21281
Urbanization as the cause of decline?
fiogf49gjkf0d
If we look atbthe history of "american" folk music, we see a specific trend. Spirituals with a religious source became Gospel through urbanization - and got a commercial orientation. What about town bands, company bands and the like? how many people really enjoy a well played march? What has happened to John Philip Sousa music? It has been replaced by film music in march style. When our most common source of entertainment comes from a television or mobile phone, others make the decisions. The masses are manipulatable.......
 steverino wrote:
Greek pressing plants did popular music not classical AFAIK. Actually Greek pressings of pop music are pretty good. The big companies like EMI and philips  had operations there in the post war era and their vinyl have good surfaces. for the most part. They also pressed quite a few records for surrounding countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

As for India, they had their own advanced classical tradition which probably inhibited the adoption of western symphonic music. That was not the case in the Far East where their classical traditions were much more restricted. Sadly of course Indian classical music is becoming extinct even in India paralleling the decline of western classical music elsewhere or even outpacing it.



Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-19-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 288
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 7
Post ID: 21283
Reply to: 21282
Masses is not a country
fiogf49gjkf0d
And the masses are not people within an ethnic group.

We are all part of the masses and Not part of the masses based on our behavior at any given point in time. Anytime we perform an action or think a thought common to a majority of the citizenry we are part of the masses. Everytime we do something that is done by less than 10% of the population we are oddballs and outliers. We are manipulable in either case or not manipulable in either case. Sousa is still played by US military and school marching bands just as some Germans sing hymns in church written by Hans Sachs. Even in an Orwellian dictatorship that would still be the case although the range of behavior and thought would be greatly restricted.

The reason why classical music is declining in the West and in India is simply that the elites or tastemakers there are not going to classical concerts in any numbers nor do they publically extol it. Richard Nixon believe it or not was the last President to go to a regular classical concert outside the WH. In a democracy the LCD is dominant and the elites are simply the embodiment of the LCD or they are deeply unpopular and rejected.as Mencken correctly observed:

As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

Or as Nietzsche said: Teaching the masses to read is the death of letters.

But this is not because any individual is the masses personified but simply their collective LCD is low in anything. And we all are part of those masses more or less.

In other words, excellence is undemocratic.

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