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03-22-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 17988
Reply to: 17988
How to make money in Audio
fiogf49gjkf0d

A few weeks ago a person visited me. We had a long listening and interesting conversation. He was extremely surprised that audio is not something that I make money on for living. I less care about his surprise but the argument that he brought up was reasonable:  will it hurt if you do what you do and at the same time someone would pay for your time and for your results?

Of cause it is not so simple and we all know that as soon the subject of our passion get mixed with financial interests then all hell breaks loose. Still I would like to talk a little about the subject of how make money in Audio, of course from my own perspective.

I see again and again in audio that most of the people as soon they get some visibility and some results that they feel might be tradable then they instantly convert themselves into some kind of sales and join the army of multiple audio whores. In reality the conversion takes place much sooner. I consider that EACH SINGLE PERSON who patronages a company or a product not for sake of own use and own benefit but for “good sake of others” is in fact crosses the boundary between the expressing own opinion and participation in ugly marketing efforts. This is why I see difference between army professional dirt that write pre-paid “reviews” and the huge army of “amateurs” who do very much the same, even if they do not have the realized intention to do it.

Still, no one argues that it is nice to get pay for the time we spend in audio. How good if I have some cash flow for the time I write this article, think about some new audio concept, align tweeters or you have some fanatical gratification for the time you read this article. In my work I do get pay sometimes for writing a position a paper and I get paid for reading position papers and technical reviews. So, I wonder if it possible to have some fanatical benefits in audio and to keep the hands and head not dirty ?

Do not be alerted. I ask this question not because I need money. You WILL NOT see tomorrow at my site any hidden promotions of any products, pop up advertisement or any donation buttons (even those I do not mind to solicit money from readers to benefit felines). Just with the things that are going on in my life I am getting bored with my day job and I do look some other opportunity. Naturally some aspects of audio are with me and there are pop ups in my mind that I do have some experience in some aspects of audio, why do not cash it? The problem is that whatever I might do in audio I have absolutely no interest of doing.

So, let see what cash flow opportunity exist in audio.

You can manufacture things in audio. For new people the glory to be an audio maker looks very attractive. Unfortunately  knows among those who was involved with any production the  manufacturing routine has absolutely nothing to do with what we value in audio.

You can sell in audio. Many people do it and it looks like audio community nowadays is nothing more than an army of deaf flea market hoodlums who sell to each other musically impotent garbage. There are different scales of selling, from successful distributors making 1mil per year to silent “amateur” trading online. I know one guy who for years associated with a big name audio reviewer and who sells as “used” the equipment that that reviewer does not return to the manufacturers. This guy supplements his full time job with $50K-$60K of net income trading the “fallen of the truck” gear from his reviewer-supplier. Of course I have no interest to sell anything in audio, not the last reason is that I do not like to socialize with audio people as I consider them to be a defective breed.

You can do consultancy. This market does exist, even it is very small. It however might be developed if it done properly.  I can be very good and surprisingly effective in certain fields but in audio consulting there are some elements that I do not like. I do not want to be involved in any process where the amounts of efforts I spend have direct consequence with amount of gratification.  I would like the efforts and reimbursement to be completely decoupled by nature of operation. If they are decoupled then I can administer my efforts in more and more efficient format in order to have disproportional reimbursement, I am very good with it too in my day-time job.

So, I wonder if somebody can pitch, even as a brain-storm idea, any new way to make money by means of high-end audio?  Again, I am not looking to literally cash my investment into the cable elevators but I rather would like to develop some inspiration how audio can bring some even minor income and do not be revolting mercantile as we see around us. I very much no looking for any grand operation but rather very minor cash flow that would create a multitude of tax advantages  which is my primary interest. I can wait to write off my 439 versions of Bruckner 8 as business expanse, to do so however somebody needs to pay me to for playing the Bruckner 8…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 2
Post ID: 17989
Reply to: 17988
Extreme consulting hobby
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy - I've thought about this one for some time. 


Let's just dismiss equipment business due to the declining industry sales trends, tight margins, and painful design/production/marketing logistics. And I don't see you selling audio equipment at a store (or to stores as a wholesaler).  That leaves consulting.


From your perspective, some obvious consulting problems and some examples come to mind right away. This list needs to be refined but it is a start:


1. PERSONAL - 

* Expanding hobby to profession risks diluting hobby's fun factor. Biggest personal hurdle


2. DEFINITION OF OBJECTIVES WITH CLIENT- re">

* Perhaps the biggest professional hurdle


3. OUTSOURCING OF CONSTRUCTION - 

* Imagine a San Francisco client wants you to design and build dedicated room + system. The logistics of sourcing design architect, construction, electrical, permitting, etc. in a new state might be painful. Might be fun depending on your personality. Think about the mid-bass horn project at home. The logistics will take a lot of time away from the core sound project


* Of course room design is incredibly subjective. I think that expensive "acoustic" room at Goodwin's looks great but sounds terrible; how do you avoid that result in a room size/shape you outside your experience?


4. PROPERLY ADDRESS CONFLICT OF INTERESTS TO MAXIMIZE PERFORMANCE - 

* As you well note, "consultants" usually have back door deals with hardware suppliers (e.g. consultant takes vig (margin) on equipment sale, construction etc.) Whilst the consultants initial intentions may be clear, there is pressure to move equipment sales move towards best "margin" vs. best "performance


* Perverse incentives of hourly billing agreements and fixed fee billing agreements (e.g. never complete project vs. complete too quickly)


5. COMPLETION DEFINITION- 

* For project completion (final billing), how does one objectively assess the success of a system implementation?


6. MARKETING - 

* Not really sure how you could start marketing this, other than posting on your site


* Actually keeping the customer's names confidential, it would be a good exercise (and interesting to others) if you posted progress-photos of consulting projects as they moved forward. That would be good marketing


==> FINAL THOUGHTS (FOR NOW) - 

In the end, I think you need to keep this close to a fun hobby as possible.


One path is highly customized, ground-up, system design/consulting/implementation. These projects likely cost (significantly) over $100,000 dollars.  Fixed fee + overruns might be the proper billing mechanism. Maybe you could aim for just a few very high end projects per year where potential clients are given the opportunity to listen to your room and sound philosophy beforehand, then agree to give you an extreme level of design freedom.

03-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 235
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 3
Post ID: 17990
Reply to: 17988
Max option
fiogf49gjkf0d
surely the most lucrative option is also the simplest: offering to reproduce your entire system: nothing more and - critically - nothing less. that way you know exactly what you will get, and it takes no additional effort to do it. It is basically consulting without any consulting.
03-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Posts 134
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 4
Post ID: 17991
Reply to: 17988
What you do right now
fiogf49gjkf0d

I just don´t see Romy running around trying to satisfy a customer and his wife with the color selection of the carpet!  I am sure you will be great at whatever you set your mind to, but try to stay on your comfort zone.
Lets say you decide to make installations, and you get a high paying customer in California,  you will have to leave 438 versions of Bruckner 8 at home and travel,  leaving also your system and cat back in Boston...and your actual nonaudio customers!

New things come from a combination of talents, and you got many of those.

You can make avialable some of the great music you already have,  making bootleg copies of old wonderful recordings that already lost their copyrights.  Make them available in High Res from the PM2, or better yet, Reel Tape recordings on two channels and 15 ips.  If somebody is going to transfer unobtanium vinyl to another media, it better be a trusted audiophile with a good playback system.
Anyway I am sure that the copyright holders of most of your favorite recordings wont mind coming to an agreement with you to promote and copy a dead product! 

How about going to concerts and recording the music.  Make sure no stupid engineer messes up the recording and providing only well played performaces.
Recordings with the Cat´s Seal of aprooval.  Be it high res or RTR.    One or two microphones only, analog RTR recording with no post production compression! Downloadable high res files from your site.  How about a battery of Ampex tape copying machines on your basement!
I would certainly be one of the first customers!

You can become that which you most hate:  a Reviewer!  you do it almost monthly on your site already.  Or better yet, follow the advice you once gave a reviewer and just "show case" horn gear and recordings.  something like  Cat Moon Audio...

You can make and audio site that sells specialized audio stuff, music and gear,  pick up some of the slack left by the renewed Agon.
This way you can sell without ever talking to buyer or seller and even without getting away from your living room and cat.  Just make a trading section on the site.



Just some thoughts!

03-23-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 172
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 5
Post ID: 17992
Reply to: 17991
Custimized sound
fiogf49gjkf0d
I guess the tricky bit would be to customize sound to someone else's "objectives", "taste", whatever.

As an architect I deal with a similar problem every day: trying to idealize what the customer wishes (from a messy mishmash of the input and preconceived ideas that he attempted to pass on to me) and then trying to convince him that the resulting project is the closest I could do to what he wised for.

On the other hand, I have colleagues who don't give a damn about the customer and just design whatever is their mind at the moment...

Cheers,
Ric


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
03-24-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 17993
Reply to: 17988
Archive recordings
fiogf49gjkf0d
Orchestre de Radio France archival recordings of live concerts all day on the radio. Phenomenal performances with lush, full textured strings, crisp horns, deep bass volume. Isaac stern playing the brahms violin concerto and I am in heaven.
Romy can't you create a business to remaster and release great archival material ? You can create your own " internet romy" based station with paid membershop fees!  
R weissman
03-25-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 17999
Reply to: 17993
It is not so simple….
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Jorge wrote:
You can become that which you most hate:  a Reviewer!
Actually to review audio products is not something that I would hate but it I has to be only on my terms – the condition that certainly does not exist and would not exist in real world of Audio. There is not only condition for serious audio reviewing but there is no consumer need for serious audio reviewing and there are very few products that deserve serious audio reviewing. So, I do not think that boat will ever sail…

To re/produce and to sale good recordings or good dubs is the idea that come to me sometimes but there is something in this dirty and therefore not stimulating. Even the copyrights are expired, still, it is juts stealing and marketing the labor of others. If I can claim some taste in the selection of the recording and some technical perfection then I need to do recording, not dubbing the well known releases. I have no knowledge and frankly no interest to do recordings. I am listener and thinker, not a technician.   I do not mean to undermine the recording artistry but I am very much out of game in that sport.

The idea of getting paid for assisting to anybody to mimic my playback I find is very not stimulating and there are two reasons behind it: humanitarian and technical – both of the reasons condemn such a project to be a failure.

I was considering to open a section of a site where I would offer short reviews, brief history and recommendations for some music and then to get some commissions from sellers. I do not need a lot of money, just some positive cash inflow for tax purposes. Still, doing it makes sense and creates any dent only if the traffic over the site more or less substantial.  I have absolutely no interest or need to raise traffic over my site. There are zillion ways to do it, and I am good with it at my full time work but my personal site has no need to be overly public. In fact I do some measure to restrict traffic and in most of the cases even I tend do not link my site from other sites I socialize on-line.

The thing is that I my interests and my expertise are in very narrow field that has not a lot of following out there. With my musical acquaintances I am a bit “too audio” and with most of my audio acquaintances I am “too musical”.  My expertise is in the very threshold of art and machines interaction. If you are an art-painter and you have prostatic arms and you would like your hand to be sensual enough for you to do fine sketching  than I know what to do with gears, valves and motor of your prostatic arms in order you to have ability to express yourself. I do it in audio and there is practically none existing pool of the audio people who need a help in this field.  Just as an audio-specialist I would be hardly understood, and the idiots out there do not even understand what I would be talking of doing and where I would be coming from. This is one of the major reasons why I prefer do not deal with audio people and consider most of them to be worthless.

So, I do not see a lot of business applications for myself in audio. There are some areas that I would like to deal with. For instance if some digital company  would like to make digital  to be a full 100% replica to analog, if they will provide full technical backup of my experiments and pay for my time, then I would be very happy to do some research. The same would go for other makers – if somebody would like to make special tubes or special speaker drivers with predictable and targeted musical characteristics. For sue it is naïve to think about it but this thread not about concrete plans but about thoughts browsing… 

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-25-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 155
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 8
Post ID: 18000
Reply to: 17999
Be more cynical and cash on the sheep...
fiogf49gjkf0d
You already have quite  profound effect on the market place , why not find a way to cash on it? You don't even have to prostitute yourself into revieving whore just make a  separate " commercial " part of your web site like your exotic leftowers with short recommedations of worthy equipment for which you could charge accordingly interested parties. Is this not what all of the emailing morons ask for ? , well give it to them for free and earn some money. You can even satisfy your dark side recommending total crap and watch the prices go upWink
03-25-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 18001
Reply to: 18000
It is hard to stop being me.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Wojtek wrote:
You already have quite  profound effect on the market place , why not find a way to cash on it? You don't even have to prostitute yourself into revieving whore just make a  separate " commercial " part of your web site like your exotic leftowers with short recommedations of worthy equipment for which you could charge accordingly interested parties. Is this not what all of the emailing morons ask for ? , well give it to them for free and earn some money. You can even satisfy your dark side recommending total crap and watch the prices go up
Actually, sometimes I had an idea to have a commercial version of the site. In past I thought to have it as a completely different site (I own domain SiteAboutSound.com or something like this), not associated with my own personal site and in there to run purely e-commerce operation, discovering the new “things” and to sell them in there under special “garnish”.  I have a very clear vision what kind “things” need to be sold in there. Unfortunately to discover, test and to develop those “things” takes a lot of time and I am not looking to devote myself to this type of operation.  For the same amount of time that I would spend to deal with my e-commerce site to sell for instance porn gives much higher cost-benefit ratio. The point is that to sell the audio toys would give me identical satisfaction as to sell sex games, stolen pharmaceuticals, “demilitarized” vacuum cleaners, or imported exotic fruit. To sell non-audio crap brings much more money for fewer efforts. So, I think if I hit the e-commerce then it will be not audio related.

The idea that I WAS contemplated is to discover not the existing “thing” but made my own “things”, recognizing and slightly developing a need/demand and providing the supply. I do have some engendering and production recourses that I might bring into the game if I need to. I have an audio- friend who “invented” the need/demand, provide a very smart and very chip to make solution and very nicely is making ~$22k a year by doing absolutely nothing. If to have a few products like this and to create a framework that would protect the “thing” from imitation and competition then it might be something that I would contemplate. Again, it would be absolutely not associated with current my own site and I would like to be absolutely incognito in that new audio-commerce operation. I do have a few idea what the “things” might be and to a degree I do have more or less elegant solution the might be former as very interesting products. However, all these “things” are very narrow demands products and not type of the products that I feel worth to undertake for wide operation.  I do not keep thinking about it but I do keep my eyes open for such ideas. Frankly I do not think that I will come up with something as my dally audio practice is too far from the dally experiences of most of prospective audio customers, and my feelings of their need might be very much screwed by my pleasure to mock them by selling to them sublimational crap and to see them to erect the crap to their pathetic pedestal…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-26-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JJ Triode
Posts 75
Joined on 09-12-2007

Post #: 10
Post ID: 18005
Reply to: 18001
Audio house calls and full-range Melqs
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,

I have thought about what you might do to create some audio cash flow and two things came to mind.

1.  Audio doctor house calls.  This would not mainly be to "audio people," as their goals and frustrations would usually not be what you would be willing to help with.  However, there are a certain number of affluent "non-audio people" who nevertheless ended up with fairly expensive audio installations that they have trouble with.  In some cases such people have equipment that is objectively not working right, e.g. blown tweeters, grounding problems or other straightforward things that they don't know how to address (or don't have time or energy for.)  In other cases the "expert installers" from their dealers have made a mess of things, or there are acoustic problems in the room and nobody with common sense there to sort it out.  Sometimes these clients just need someone to help them figure out how to use it all, I mean literally like putting batteries in the remote or whatever.  Sticking to a few wealthy customers (in preference to an army of bottom-feeders) I'd think you could get, say, 4-6 engagements per year, amounting to a couple hours to a couple days of work per gig, and paying a couple hundred to a couple thousand $/gig.

2.  Offer to build and sell the full-range Melquiades by custom order.  I know you have various reasons to put the Melq in the public domain and not build it for money, but you could leave the "plans" here on GSC and still sell maybe 2-3 pairs a year to people who want it and are not prepared to build it.  There are reasons not to do it, but there are reasons not to do anything in audio for money.  I think you did sell that one mirror-imaged pair, and it was not the end of the world.
03-26-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 18007
Reply to: 18005
I think I did get the inspiration I was looking...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 JJ Triode wrote:
2.  Offer to build and sell the full-range Melquiades by custom order.  I know you have various reasons to put the Melq in the public domain and not build it for money, but you could leave the "plans" here on GSC and still sell maybe 2-3 pairs a year to people who want it and are not prepared to build it.  There are reasons not to do it, but there are reasons not to do anything in audio for money.  I think you did sell that one mirror-imaged pair, and it was not the end of the world.

Actually I never thought about it but you might be right. I did sell of pair of Milq but it was more like ego sell. The guy from NY was using Lamm ML-2.0 with his horns and he stopped by at my place and asked to lend him Milqs. So, I did and he found after a month or so that Milq was better. There was no conversation at that point about sell or price and when he did ask me to sell them I begin to ask myself about the price I shall get. I did informed him how much it cost to me and then I proposed to him to sell the Lamms and pay to me the money he get form ML-2. He sold him Lamms for I think $12.5K and it was what I got for Milqs. I was very pleased not as much financially but rather ego-vise as when I started to work with Melquiades I did not even think that my amp will be changing ML-2.0, all that I wanted to have another amp that will be able to work along with Lamms. I still do not feel that making Melquiades is something that I would undertake. However, thinking about it did give me a VERY interesting inspiration that frankly quite take me.  I have to confess that I come to a very appealing to me idea right after I read your post and I do feel that I owe you one. Do you know you? The “JJ Triode”, are the guy who visited me two year back with Clark of you are the Vivaldi-guy who visited me in February? Sorry, I do not remember people behind the site’s monikers…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-26-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 12
Post ID: 18011
Reply to: 18007
Disagree . . .
fiogf49gjkf0d
I "get" the attraction in selling a few Milqs. 
But. . .  
1. What is the likelihood of the Milqs becoming part of a good entire system? 10%? 5%? less? So what is the point?
2. An average "garden variety" professional consultant / law partner bills at $500 - $1,000 per hour. In my view that is your baseline, although one could argue that your skill set above "garden variety" and that you should be billing a lot more per hour. Without scale you just can't came close to that rate selling equipment.
3. Logistics. Some guy named "justin w" has been trying to build and sell some customized tube headphone amp for the past few years (like the those of the Milqs, the headphone amp's schematics are also in the public domain). I don't know if it is good or lousy equipment but it is pretty clear for the thread that the logistics/delays of getting some parts can be a real headache for him and his customers. He might be worth speaking to: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition 
4. If you are hell bent on selling equipment, maybe that comes as part of a "package" including consulting. That helps guaranty some level of quality for the end user and allows you to move up from terrible equipment margins to consulting rates. 
==> So just selling one component seems to me is just aiming too small. Both from a philosophical perspective and financial perspective.
For me, the philosophical perspective is more important. Rather than hassling parts suppliers every day, wouldn't it would be more fun to visit that Asian guy noted in the new thread to help him design and implement his system, chop the tree stump rack, have a drink in that neat room. Even if the system end result is imperfect, there would be some satisfaction in driving the improvement. . .
My 2c
03-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 18013
Reply to: 18011
Very interesting….
fiogf49gjkf0d
This turned out to be a phenomenally proactive thread. Last night I had a revelation as I former he very narrow requirement what I would not mind to do in audio professionally. To my surprise the requirement that I formed was so clean, so elegant and so “me” in nature that I got truly fascinated with it. As in anything else: if the requirement is narrowly form and the right question asked then the answer never far. So, it was this time and in lately one hour I have a very very very interesting idea in my head, the idea that I do not mind to develop in commercial audio product.

The idea has all beauty that one might dream. It represents a product that had never existed. It has enormous potential market. The acute need for it in existence form many many many years but no one dealt with it, at least in such an interesting way as I invested. The idea is innovative and patentable. The idea is highly technical but not too technology intensive. The idea might lead to relatively non-expensive family of new products that market never seen before. The idea might permit to have absolutely different and non-annoying distribution/marketing strategy contrary to what in existence now. The idea by-nature would not demand the prospective consumers to have brain, ears, culture of listening intelligence – everyone will be able to interact with the idea’s products and to recognize the benefit. The idea is not expensive to manufacture and supports.

I am not trying to butter myself up – this is truly very innovative idea by concept and I do love it. It has to be for sure implemented properly and I have no idea how to do it. I have spoken with my technical recourses and ball is roiling – the design phase has been initiated. I do not know at this point if we will be implementing the prototype of the idea at the level I demand, conceptually it will work but there are a lot of “special demands” that I implanted into it and I do not know how complex will it be to implement. One of the damns is that the product shall do exactly what it want to do and do not do absolutely NOTHING else. This “make no harm of any kind” demand is a very intrinsic Modus Operandi of the product and it is what I will be demanding from my designers.

Anyhow, it is very early to talk about anything for now but I did get some fascination over the topology and concept of this new invention. It might lead to a VERY lucrative side business…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JJ Triode
Posts 75
Joined on 09-12-2007

Post #: 14
Post ID: 18017
Reply to: 18013
Who are you?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am the person who visited last month, heard some Vivaldi and other things and "did not get" Bruckner.  I am not the Clark's person.

And no, you don't owe me anything, except to keep doing this site and allowing occasional visits.  Well, if you REALLY feel like it you could dump some music on a couple of Redbook CDRs (the only digital format I can use, unfortunately) and send them to me.  But I would have to think about what music; maybe some of your live-from-FM recordings.

I can understand that if your new idea is patentable, you will not yet post it on the forum.  It'll be fun to eventually see what it is, though.  I'm guessing it is a remote-controlled tweeter toilet-paper unroller.
03-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
noviygera


Chicago, IL
Posts 129
Joined on 06-12-2009

Post #: 15
Post ID: 18024
Reply to: 18013
Mad Mad Electricity?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, 
Just make a good power generator that will not screw up dynamics and not be affected by dirty power. You had some ideas before (60Hz sine wave + amp with a lot of power) and you have experience in this matter.  That will take care of all folks with audio systems -- simple folks and complicated ones.
Gera
p.s. generally, I think a simple device that lets people "see" (like on a screen) the quality of the power they are getting is a good one to have in the household. This will not only appeal to audio people but all people looking to improve a certain aspect of their life, like any sensitive equipment that they cherish. It is a device that will bring awareness to usually ignorant people and this is good thing to bring to any society. In turn, you can develop other devices that tackle the issue of bad power and develop in that direction later on.
03-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 18027
Reply to: 18013
Me.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I had some interesting thoughts a about the little Gisheft idea. While my technical people work on the design aspect of it I spoke with a couple of friends of my about marketing possibility. Of cause it is too early to talk about anything as anything will be only starter only after I will be able personally test the whole notion but regardless if the idea will be working properly some very interesting question has risen.

I do know how to the devise need to be sold and thee are multiple ways to do so but all of the ways to spin around one very fundamental question: shall Romy the Cat to be a part of the perspective operation.  If yes than I will dictate very specific actions: put up a new site, state the thing that I have in my head about the devise and it’s position on the market, offer the devise to public and pretty much to be myself. Another direction is to outsource the devise marketing to one of many industry pimps and absolutely remove my public association with the device.

Both direction have own cons and pros. I personally at this point more inclined to the go with first direction – it might not be as much money but it much more fun and more option to play counterpoint to what I hate in industry and audio people. I do not need to decide now as there is nothing to talk for now about but the thighs that were in my mind were controversial. The last thing that I would like to get from all of would be to become the “industry enslaved” person.  The devise itself, it is works in the way how I invasion do have some contra-establishment subtext but I would like do not become slave even the contra-establishment interests.  So, there are some benefits to cash out upon the invention and not make the hands and soil dirty with my parochial interests.

BTW, I do sincerely hope that the readers of my site, if they detect that I am turning toward to the ugly direction of whoring for anything, will point it out.  

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 17
Post ID: 18028
Reply to: 18027
Strategy, marketing and legal
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
Sounds interesting. Whilst you are sorting out the technology / product / production ideas with your tech guys, a few thoughts:

1. Legal - Some law firms will offer special "discount" rates to startup technology type businesses. Of course the product/service will need to have some potential for significant sales, such that the law firm has the possibility to bill a lot of work at higher rates in the future. I worked with a firm in Chicago that did this and we received a lot of firepower and could focus funds on operations. Interestingly for us, one of the intellectual property issues was just not registering anything to keep the "technology" completely private. If the technology is easy to copy, then protection may be important. This turned out to be an excellent legal arrangement beyond just saving some money.

2. Strategy / marketing - prodigious amount of time and effort in planning the "firm's" strategy and "marketing" plan can make the difference between selling a little or selling a lot. The consumer products in your house are not there by coincidence; some people spent stupid amounts of time planning how to get that junk into your house. 

I know this looks like a fluffy and trivial area when compared to the technical and operational hurdles you are battling. However, this is really what will make or break sales volumes. You can't outsource this initial work. Spend a while with a pencil mapping out the US (then international) landscape of:
--Target end customers (who are they, #, demographics). 
--How do you get this stuff to them? retailers, distributors, advertising venues, conventions, magazine reviews, internet distribution, etc. Afterwards international markets.
--Is this just traditional "expensive audio" distribution or are you going more mass market to include electronics / consumer retailers?

===> How do you reach out to these distribution channels and customers, and eventually sell to them? Is that something that you actually want to do with your time?
03-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,285
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 18
Post ID: 18029
Reply to: 18028
Yes, you got it.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 scooter wrote:
Is that something that you actually want to do with your time?

This question of your is exactly right and it is what I have been asking myself while I am thinking about it. If the idea works fine on technical and sonic aspects then it is not so hard for me to set a full scale production.  I have recourses to convert a [hopefully] properly operating/sounding prototype into a very functional, sensible and technologically property device. It is not a big deal to order the boards, boxes and the rest necessary elements. With proper presentation and under my name I think the product might see some success as it is have very interesting operation and beneficial principle it has huge market and practically there nothing offered in the felid. I do not mind to find in Boston some semi-retired worker (these old Russian school defense super-engineers are well beyond to the crap that exists in today pool of personnel). I have good option for manufacturing facility in my basement where the units might be assembled, tested packed and shipped. The problem is that with all hidden pleasure of this type of operation it is not what I want to do with my life. Lamm does exactly that and I under no circumstance would like to go to this path, not that I think that it is bad but it is not what I want to do with my time. A manufacturing is very enslaving process and very soon a person becomes a servant of the process. This is not the audio that I practicing and I would like do not contaminate my audio practicing with negotiating for the price of the new party of caps or spend hours on the phone with idiots who explain to me that my devise make their Patricia Barber  to perform a lap dance on them. So, if the device turns out to be worthy then I need to devise some kind of pattern that would assure me to be me and will not convert me into another industry manufacturing android.   For sure if we are talking about 1-2 sales per months (it is what I would look ultimately) then the basement operation scenario look perfectly fine. There is however a chance that the devise might become very in demand and to render 30 sales per months will be a responsibility that would demand full-time attention, even with help. Of cause I might BS myself and it will never happens but  I think before to dive into it is the right time to build strategy, not when you get the orders and you brainlessly drift with events. If to outscore the whole thing then the scalability of the operation is not my problem anymore. I will lose my own control over it, it will be no my operation - therefore it will have unpredictable results… So, there are many cons and pros in both ways to go…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 172
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 19
Post ID: 18036
Reply to: 18029
Romy cares, and makes a difference
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The reality is that most of audio people have extremely poor listening intelligence when they deal with audio. Listening intelligence, something that I been stressing for years, is not considered a commodity in audio world because the industry can’t buy and sell it. So, as the result the majorly audio people not only have very poor audio listening intelligence but they do not even understand what listening intelligence might mean and how it might be used in audio. A developed listening intelligence however allows no-impediment transition and self-administration of listening attention between observations of audio and observations musical phenomena along with many other things…


Romy rolls up his sleeves and picks the single most important but neglected "commodity in audio world" and sets up a Summer Course in his front lawn.
Applicants are required to provide a motivation letter where they will describe their sonic objectives and musical preferences.
A tent will not be provided by the organization so you must bring your own.

Cheers,
Ric



"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
04-05-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
unicon


Posts 72
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 20
Post ID: 18037
Reply to: 18027
Might be ugly
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

BTW, I do sincerely hope that the readers of my site, if they detect that I am turning toward to the ugly direction of whoring for anything, will point it out.  
The Cat

Sure if folks in industry and money making hifi toys or any hifi hugger can benefit your service we all may get blessed by better sounds around I hope
BUT It gets ugly while meanings and art behind the sound for end users relates to Payment cards.
I rather lick the water than diving in it.

uncorn
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