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04-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 183
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 1
Post ID: 16102
Reply to: 16102
Melquiades (D-Set) parts list
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi,

Every so often, someone contacts me and asks for some information about my plans (presently on hold) to build Melquiades Full-Range or D-Set, and whether I have a list of parts etc. My experience of trying to find a builder for Melquiades has not been overly positive, but I hope, someday I may yet find someone who has the requisite skills (and enthusiasm) to do this for me. I wish those embarking on this fascinating project the best of luck; I certainly envy you!

I do not have a source list for everything, especially the different capacitors and chokes although I did carry out some preliminary research. As part of that initial build phase, I commissioned a parts list which cost me in the region of £400-500. It is in the form of a spreadsheet and certainly easy to email to anyone interested. I would like to add a word of caution though. This parts list is not foolproof (it was not intended for publication) and there are a few gaps that your builder will have to fill in.

I have found this site, particularly the thread where Romy goes through the build of the Full-Range and D-Set Melquiades of immense help and I urge you or your builder (if he is so inclined) to peruse these to get a better understanding of all the aspects of the build.

Whilst my own project may not materialise, I imagine it would be a shame to have the parts list that may be of help to others and keep it to myself. After all, I myself came to the schematics as a gift freely given to all who might have an interest in an amplifier that promises simplicity of design, and an underlying coherence of purpose. I am proposing to all those interested in the parts list for the D-Set (you can of course use it as a starting point for the Full-Range), who are fully aware that I make no claim to accuracy whatsoever, that parts list. For free, of course.

I did forward my parts list to Romy with some queries and he added some helpful comments so unless he has some objections that's the parts list I will forward upon request. I would like to add that when I approached Romy for some assistance with this, although we clearly disagree earnestly on almost everything, he found the time to go over a very long list of stupid parts and commented on pretty much every element where I (or my would-be builder) had a query.

I have a parts list without Romy's comments, if that is deemed the appropriate one I should be making available of course.

Now, what about my hidden motives? Can it be as unselfish as it sounds, or am I working in conjunction with an unnamed party whose services I am trying to ply on you in a very underhanded way? Certainly these questions will arise and you will need to make up your own mind in due course. For my part, I would like it to be simply about giving out freely something which may save people a fair amount of time (and money) and give them a greater chance of bringing their project to a successful conclusion.

Of course, before building D-Set Melquiades, it is obvious that you should consider building Melquiades FR first. I was myself naive enough to think that one could go directly to the build of the D-Set version but let's not talk about my own mistakes for now.

Best regards
Rakesh

P.S. Romy, please feel free to delete this post if you think it does not belong here or move it to the appropriate thread as you deem necessary.
04-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,283
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 16103
Reply to: 16102
The value of parts lists.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not exactly comfortable with oxric’s preoccupation with “parts”. Yes, there are some amps that invest a lot of attention into parts quality – the silver winding in Kondo, oil caps in BAT, of silver foil caps in AN might be the examples. Melquiades is not such an amp and there is no die or live demands for Milq parts. The core of Melquiades is topological, the parts do server important role, like in any other amp but rather are given for an illustration of topological preferences. Any more or less familiar with the subject person would understand the message. There is nothing wrong with the selection of the parts that I provided; in fact I personal feel that they were the right parts at that time. So, with the parts that enumerated it will be no errors on parts side but still, each builder might have own preferences.  Somebody else preferences are fine but I did not heard Melquiades built with somebody else preferences. So, the modifications in parts you made are purely the subject of your own risk. Sing it I have to admit that there is HUGE variety of the parts that might be used and I am sure the result shall not be compromised.
 
I think that “parts list” has no value for most of the people.  People who are familiar with basic amplifier construction has own suppliers and own preferences. Reading the Melquiades schematic they can easy re-interpret Melquiades to the parts that they are accustom and the do know what is important in Melquiades and what is irrelevant. In my view Rakesh treats the parts list with almost some semi-cult attitude and I feel it is wrong.
 
Melq is a simple amp and I pretty much the only “part” that needs to be considered as a “cult” is output transformer, the better transformer you get the better final result will be. In case of DSET configuration – it is more complex and I would not advise to think about DSET until you know the very precise power, bandwidth and loading requirement.
 
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 183
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 3
Post ID: 16104
Reply to: 16103
A cult? Where?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

I do not exactly comfortable with oxric’s preoccupation with “parts”...There is nothing wrong with the selection of the parts that I provided; in fact I personal feel that they were the right parts at that time. So, with the parts that enumerated it will be no errors on parts side but still, each builder might have own preferences...
 
I think that “parts list” has no value for most of the people.  People who are familiar with basic amplifier construction has own suppliers and own preferences. Reading the Melquiades schematic they can easy re-interpret Melquiades to the parts that they are accustom and the do know what is important in Melquiades and what is irrelevant. In my view Rakesh treats the parts list with almost some semi-cult attitude and I feel it is wrong. 
   
The caT


Romy, I think you are wrong but I guess you knew that's what I was going to say. There is nothing in the parts list, other than the output transformers, that I considered as being either a 'cult' feature or such an important feature that it could not be changed for something else. It is true that with some of the unusual values for capacitors, sourcing these in the UK was proving difficult, just on the basis of specifications.

In fact, I went so far as to consider even specifying the output transformers from someone who offered to supply these as well as the chokes. Unfortunately when it came to deriving the values of the chokes from the schematics, he refused to do so and the person who I was hoping would build the Melquiades for me was having second thoughts about the whole project (I do not want to go into the reasons why he felt that way!).

You may find it surprising how builders take an idea and make such profound changes to it that it is barely recognisable. One person I approached wanted to change the output tubes, because he considered the 6C33s, I quote, " a dead-born idea." Two of those I contacted wanted to significantly change the output transformers specs to make winding easier...Anyway, what I am saying is I was never attached to parts, but sometimes I felt that I had to prohibit any change in terms of the parts in order not to write a blank cheque and end up with a radically different amplifier.

So, Romy, there is no preoccupation with parts and no semi-cult attitude here and I do not see how a parts list (an unavoidable part of such an enterprise, I would say) can amount to such.

Best regards
Rakesh

 
04-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,283
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 16105
Reply to: 16104
Send to hell all “winding easier” transformers.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 oxric wrote:
You may find it surprising how builders take an idea and make such profound changes to it that it is barely recognisable. One person I approached wanted to change the output tubes, because he considered the 6C33s, I quote, " a dead-born idea." Two of those I contacted wanted to significantly change the output transformers specs to make winding easier...Anyway, what I am saying is I was never attached to parts, but sometimes I felt that I had to prohibit any change in terms of the parts in order not to write a blank cheque and end up with a radically different amplifier.
  
The person who considered changing the 6C33s was right or wrong but he did not propose to you built his own amp. When you hire a carpenter to paint your room then you use his expertise to paint wall and you do not particularly care when he insist that that color of your bedroom does not match with the hair color of your wide and when his insist that you need to get rid of her. If your guy feel that 6C33C is "a dead-born idea" then he need to pitch to you his one version of amp with compatible characteristics and sonic results.
 
Regarding the “those … wanted to significantly change the output transformers specs to make winding easier...”. Get rid of them. A proper output SET transformer can’t not be made by a person who is willing to get this things simpler. You need to approach a transformer maker, give to him the specs and complicate the specs as much as you might imagine. The person shall send you to hell a few times, and then he shall hive you the praise that according to him would make you to go away. You need to abrade the price, furthermore to complicate the specs and insist to proceed.  Then, what the guy even make for you the OT transformers and you stop by in his shop to pick it up then she shall look at your as you are his worst enemy. He shall throw the transformer in your head and scream that he never ever will do it such a pain in ass transformer again no matter how much he be paid. Now, what you got from him is THE right transformer.
 
The “winding easier” transformers are not what one needs for Milq. The more “complicated” transformer will be the better will be the amp. I do not go into specifics how complicated transformer might be orders but if a maker does not offer “complexity” then stay away from the maker.
 
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 183
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 5
Post ID: 16108
Reply to: 16105
Contact
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello,

I have received a couple of requests which I have replied to but these came through 'diyaudio,' as there seems to be no email address in my profile here. I always thought it was there, and in any case just updated it but I imagine it might take a while to get updated.

I would appreciate it if I could be instead emailed directly at rakeshpoorun(at)gmail.com as it will save me having to check my pms on diyaudio (which normally I never do - but with the Fane Group Buy ongoing I do check it regularly at the moment), copy, go to my gmail account, paste etc.

Thanks

Rakesh
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