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07-08-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 13946
Reply to: 13946
In defense of Mikhail Pletnev
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As many know, Mikhail Pletnev, Russian prominent pianist and conductor, charged in Thailand for rape of 14 years old boy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/07/mikhail-pletnev-child-molesting-thailand

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/07/06/international/i212722D02.DTL

Over the last few days all musical forums are filled with chewing over this fact but I feel a strange need to defend Pletnev.

First of all I am not a big fan of Pletnev and never admired him as neither pianist nor conductor – so I have nothing personally wasted. But I also do not remember Pletnev being as some kind of activist in anti-pedophilia movement.  So, now he got caught with a tanager boy and the whole word stuck on the face a mask of ignorant hypocrisy and blame Pletnev in whatever is comfortable for them to blame them. Whatever Pletnev did he did for himself. He did not advertise this pedophilia part of like and he did it at the jurisdiction where pedophilia is almost a part of national identity.  In some countries boys and girls in 12 year old and married and have kids (India for instance), so Pletnev slept with 14 years old teenager. Are you envy? Get over it. Some American corporate executives received in 90s bonuses to visit the underage whore-houses in Thailand. It never considered as “wrong”. Great Horowitz had a long chain of boys from Juilliard School of Music hat was brough to him to have sex - it was also considered as “normal”. The idiot-moms who absolutely voluntary put their babes in the bed with Michael Jackson were “normal” but Jackson was considered as “rapist” and child molester. BTW, I do not patricianly believe in the “rape” accusation in the Pletnev case – those people do not “rape” but their agents bring them whoever and whatever they want. Who it is different from anything else?

The point is that Pletnev no better or worse than any of us – he had his issues and he dealt with them. I do not treat the VIP people in the way how idiots-Americans treat their sports stats. And I would not buy pork of apples in store only if I see Pletnev face on the apple box packages....

From what I heard in the news – that Pletnev was caught somewhere for having sex with somebody that he not supposed to … this had absolutely no effect or impact of any kind for my judgment about Pletnev. It is like the “West Wing” creator was caught in Japans with Marihuana in his bag – who cares!

I would not voice my position if lately there were no tones of dirt damped on Pletnev because his Thailand adventure.  I find it ridicules that  the Morons so willing to put themselves in judgmental position as it is their business. Glen Gould half of his life slept with a married women and great Dimitri Mitropoulos was fucking any teenager boy he was able to get. So, what? Shall be open another chapter of idiotic puritan prosecutions and will grand our musical preference in accordance to musican's sexual behavior? What an idiocy!

I do not know how about you but the news from Thailand about Pletnev made me to re-listen the Pletnev’s transcription from the Tchaikovsky ballets…

http://www.amazon.com/Concert-suites-ballets-Sleeping-Nutcracker/dp/5714005244/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197960715&sr=8-13

He is not Martha Argerich at her prime with her Nutcracker but the Pletnev’s ballets are still very good…. That is ALL what counts….

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-08-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amphissa
Elsewhere
Posts 14
Joined on 07-17-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 13948
Reply to: 13946
At issue
fiogf49gjkf0d

The "age of consent" in Thailand is 15 for both boys and girls. However, the penal code in Thailand specifically outlaws sex between adults and children under the age of 18.

In other words, at age 15, boys and girls can legally have sex with other teens. However, they cannot have sex with adults until they reach age 18.

By definition, any sexual act between an adult and a teen under the age of 18 is "rape". This is just like the American "statutory rape" laws. And a mother has the right to report to authorities any sex between her child and an adult. Rape, as defined by these laws, does not require physical coercion and abusive, brutal attack. Even consensual sex between an adult and a teen below age 18 is, by law, rape in Thailand.

It does not matter whether anyone here believe pedophilia is "okay". It does not matter whether it occurs a lot. It is illegal in Thailand. I think the mother and child must prove that Pletnev did have sex with the boy. If they cannot prove it, he goes free. If they have evidence, I believe Pletnev will offer them a lot of money to withdraw the complaint. If he gives them a lot of money, he goes free.

So, I do not think Pletnev will go to jail. He definitely does not want too be in a prison in Thailand.

This means we will continue to have lots of very bad music from Mr. Pletnev for many years to come.

Amphissa
07-08-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 13949
Reply to: 13948
Lost in translation?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Amphissa wrote:
So, I do not think Pletnev will go to jail.….This means we will continue to have lots of very bad music from Mr. Pletnev for many years to come.

David, you will not believe how hard I was laughing about it. In fact the funniest thing about the incident was that Pletnev refer to the arrest as “misunderstanding”. I very much understand him as it was a lost in translation event. The boy was asking for a “pianist” but Pletnev was thinking that it was asking for a  “pedophile”. A pianist, A pedophile… in those Asian accents they are all sound the same…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-08-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 13952
Reply to: 13949
Pletnev’s Teacher-Pupil Genealogical Tree
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Pletnev.gif




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-08-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 294
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 13953
Reply to: 13946
Pretty much agree with Romy
fiogf49gjkf0d
Wiki: In criminal law, rape is an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent. Outside of law, the term is often used interchangeably with sexual assault,[1][2][3] a closely related (but in most jurisdictions technically distinct) form of assault typically including rape and other forms of non-consensual sexual activity.

OK, "sexual intercourse".

Wiki: Sexual intercourse, also known as copulation or coitus, commonly refers to the act in which the male reproductive organ enters the female reproductive tract.[1][2]  ... Penetrative acts between same-sex individuals can also be regarded as sexual intercourse.[2]

So it can have been "rape" only if there was penetration. (Would a bj count? Hmmm...) Fondling, handwork etc. would not qualify, although YMMV.

Just sayin' one should be careful about throwing that word around.

Finally I wonder if anyone in the US (or Russia) has caught on that Thailand is famous for its she-boys. These are guys who dress as and behave as women, often from a very early age, and have not taken the operation. The boy in this case may well have been one of those, which would present its own (but different) PR problem for Pletnev.

clark
07-09-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amphissa
Elsewhere
Posts 14
Joined on 07-17-2006

Post #: 6
Post ID: 13955
Reply to: 13953
Rape does not require physical assault
fiogf49gjkf0d


Rape does not require physical assault. Any sexual activity, even consensual, between an adult and a minor is a felony and is called rape in many U.S. states (and in many other countries). The common vernacular is "statutory rape" but in many places, the "statutory" is omitted. Any sort of sexual act qualifies when the "victim" is a minor. Rape involving a minor differs from forcible rape (assault) because the laws presume that a minor is legally incapable of consent, thus there is the legal presumption of coercion by the authority of an adult. Being "seduced" by a minor is not a defense. An adult is responsible for making the right choices, especially when a minor is involved.

"Statutory" rape here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape

Yes, Thailand is famous as a "destination" for sex "tourism" by pedophiles. That does not mean sex with minors is legal in Thailand. There are cases every year of pedophiles arrested either in Thailand or re-entering their home country from Thailand. And in the case of a minor, a parent can file the accusation, even if the child denies it trying to protect the adult perpetrator.

References and links to Thai laws here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia#Thailand

It does not matter whether the boy was a child prostitute or she-boy or Catholic school boy or piano pupil. It does not matter whether Pletnev was duped by a mother pimping her son, or if he "fell in love" with a 14 year old boy, or if he jumped the kid or the kid jumped him. The boy was under age 18, Pletnev was taking him around with him as a companion, and charges were pressed accusing him of sexual relations with the boy.

Clark, I would say that, whether he wriggles out of this mess or not, Pletnev does indeed have a PR problem. He's not as famous as Michael Jackson, but it's the same sort of deal. If a man is arrested for sexual relations with a minor and there is any evidence at all that raises suspicion with the public, the suspicion will cling to him like the scent of a skunk.

07-09-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,495
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 13958
Reply to: 13955
Penetrate or not penetrate, who cares?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Come on people, you took it in all wrong way. All that I need at my site is the debate what a penetrator is!

The point that I made was that this “public” sex with that boy was the most exciting thing Pletnev did during the last good 15-20 years. Even reading about it was more impressionable then Pletnev conducting.

Judging from the material offered at Russian classical music forums Pletnev appears to be knows in Russia as a person who has a history of issues with sex but even this does not bother me. The only serious accusation I see is that Pletnev was involve in some kind trafficking ring, if it true then I feel this need to be punished. However, if it were sex events with whomever it was boys or girls, underage or not – I truly do not care and frankly I do not feel that anybody shall care ether. Sure, I would not let Pletnev to go in my pool with my son but that about it. In Thailand, the pedophile sex is as common and as legal as smoking marihuana in US. To blame Pletnev for that? I do not think so. The most important, since when I need to pay attention to the sex live of musicians? I would agree however, that in some cases sex live of musicians might be interesting as it might expose something in their music. But Pletnev? If we learn tomorrow that he lived with a donkey – what will it change in your live? No one cares.

What however is interesting would be if Pletnev in a few years survive the legal things and book a Carnegie Hall. What piece do you think he will choose to open his recital? I think it will be Liszt's Liebestraume No 3 but not as brisk as they played nowadays but very-very slow…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-09-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 8
Post ID: 13960
Reply to: 13958
Too late...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The point that I made was that this “public” sex with that boy was the most exciting thing Pletnev did during the last good 15-20 years. Even reading about it was more impressionable then Pletnev conducting.


Unfortunatelly this all came to my knowledge a bit too late...

Last week I ordered Scriabin's Poems by none other than Mikhail "the loverboy".

Cheers,
R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
07-09-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amphissa
Elsewhere
Posts 14
Joined on 07-17-2006

Post #: 9
Post ID: 13961
Reply to: 13958
Pletnev's former crimes
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:


The point that I made was that this “public” sex with that boy was the most exciting thing Pletnev did during the last good 15-20 years. Even reading about it was more impressionable then Pletnev conducting.


hahaha, yes, this I can agree with this 100%. He should have been put in prison long ago and tortured for his crimes against the music of Rachmaninoff.



What however is interesting would be if Pletnev in a few years survive the legal things and book a Carnegie Hall. What piece do you think he will choose to open his recital? I think it will be Liszt's Liebestraume No 3 but not as brisk as they played nowadays but very-very slow…


I think the program would be:

1. Schumann's "Kinderszenen"
2. Transcription of Elgar's "Nursery Suite" 2 and 3 - "Dream Children"
3. Transcription of Tchaikovsky's "Nutcracker" - "Sugar Plum Fairy"
4. Finale - Piano Reduction of Dohnanyi's "Variations on a Nursery Tune"
5. Encore - Rachmaninoff's "Daisies"


09-25-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Fugue


Davis, CA
Posts 8
Joined on 03-27-2009

Post #: 10
Post ID: 14555
Reply to: 13949
"Mistake"???
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 Amphissa wrote:
So, I do not think Pletnev will go to jail.….This means we will continue to have lots of very bad music from Mr. Pletnev for many years to come.
The boy was asking for a “pianist” but Pletnev was thinking that it was asking for a  “pedophile”. A pianist, A pedophile… in those Asian accents they are all sound the same…

The caT
Maybe he thought he asked for a "penis." 


"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." -Victor Hugo
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