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  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  S2 Diaphragm Types...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     117  739982  07-16-2004
  »  New  Vitavox S2 driver made in china..  What does it do right?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     36  146554  12-20-2006
06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 10751
Reply to: 10751
Fake Vitavox S2 diaphragms on ebay
fiogf49gjkf0d
For all S2 fans... please be aware that seller "milesvintage2007" was claiming to have found a load of diaphragms in an old cinema (yeah, lots of those running Vitavox in Hong Kong, I'm sure...*)
Even forged the labels on the tins... He has since removed the "old cinema" claim from the description and relisted, presumably after complaints to ebay.

Whilst they may be worthy replacements, don't make the mistake of paying $500 for something misrepresented as original. He would seem to have access to plenty. The diaphragm lead out wire looks extremely fragile btw - it is a single, very thin strand of wire. Not braided (like Mike's) or a flat ribbon (like the originals).

At some point I will try them and measure the response, but as you can probably tell, I'm pissed with this fraudster.

Cheers
cv


* I suppose it's possible the colonials set one up with a couple of thunderbolts....
06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,325
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 10752
Reply to: 10751
The 'fake' S2 diaphragms.
fiogf49gjkf0d

He might be a fraud or it might be that he did found some stock of “different” Vitavox or Mike’s diaphragm. I do not think that there were any standards and the make different production runs, and some of them might be better or worse than other. Evan the driver themselves – you can find the original driver very 5 different Alnico magnets and with very different Sound. So, who knows – those diaphragms might be:

1)    Fraudulent crap
2)    Fraudulent but not crap
3)    Original but crap
4)    Original but  not crap

What makes me feel that it is very much might not be a fraud and the guys just put a dummy description is the fact that who in the hell would fake the Vitavox diaphragms? There are a 2-3 dozen peoples around the whole world who use Vitavox S2 and perhaps 5%-10% of them would buy new diaphragms. To press the diaphragms is a reasonably sophisticated ceremony, way someone would go into efforts to fake good for 5-10 sales?

In fact if someone can fake the S2 diaphragms then I would like to get in touch with those people and I would willing to work with them, paying them, in order to make together better diaphragms then what Mike or what Vitavox did. I am sure that then they would advertised their diaphragms as “better then original” and it would do more good for them.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 10753
Reply to: 10752
One way to find out...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
I knew that would be your response! It's definitely a case of (1) or (2) though. If he had been upfront about them being new, and not that he found them in a cinema, that would have been another matter. Also, I believe Mike Harvey owns the rights now, which means that by forging vitavox labels, the guy in HK is infringement there.

Obviously I have little idea how they will sound, but:
a) the lead outs look rather fragile.
b) the material looks like it may not even be aluminium - it kinda looks like titanium ?!
c) they seem rather heavier than the originals (this compared to alu originals with the ribbon lead outs)

I'm can send them to you to try if you are curious. Given the apparent mass difference (I don't have scales that are resolving enough), they may even burn up a few db of excess gain on your DHT channel...

Cheers
cv

06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 4
Post ID: 10754
Reply to: 10753
There is a pair
fiogf49gjkf0d
of nice looking S2 drivers on Audiogon right now for not unreasonable price of $2.5k obo. Not a bad deal to get a second pair for a fundamental channel.
06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,325
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 10755
Reply to: 10753
I am becoming predictable.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 cv wrote:
the lead outs look rather fragile.

Actually I recognize it as  a positive feature.

 cv wrote:
the material looks like it may not even be aluminium - it kinda looks like titanium ?!

If it is so then even more respect to their manufacturing facility as titanium is more difficult to stamp then aluminum. I would certainly prefer to have aluminum but it does not mean the if people use titanium with respect to the sound that they are getting then they can’t get some interesting results. The key is to learn of the HK guy who stamp the cones have any sonic objectives. 

 cv wrote:
… Given the apparent mass difference (I don't have scales that are resolving enough)

You do not have a cartridge scale? Anyhow, I think the key would not be the mass difference but rather to recognize the suspension compliance difference….

Thanks for the offer to let me play with them. I have over dozen diaphragms for S2, a few different types and I am not anxious to experiment with them anymore. I very comfortable with what I have now unless someone credibly state that the HK’s diaphragms are better I would not move. At this point I would let others to do the experiments: I look forward to retire from those games.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 10756
Reply to: 10755
Checks and balances
fiogf49gjkf0d
Allo
Only the cheapo Shure see-saw... perhaps I can improvise a balance to check the weight.

I thought about the compliance business, as the HK diaphragms look like the surround embossing is narrower, which would make them less compliant (if they are actually titanium - or a stiffer material - and thicker, then that only makes them more so).

Anyway, at some point I will test them out and report back...

Btw there was a response in another thread which could have been interpreted as saying that you may have reverted to metal surround types - I assume you are still with Mike's plastic edge ones on the 1k-10k channel, with electrical high pass at around 3k?

Best,
cv


06-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,325
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 10762
Reply to: 10756
The vintage brain virus.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I went to eBay and searched for his diaphragms. If you look for the rest of the items he sells then you see that he sell vintage labels of Altec, Western Eclectic, JBL, Rogers, Studer… Well, in my books the people who sell it and those who buy it have to be put to death with a nice but fast little Injection. This vintage brain virus is permanent mental damage – I hate those people. I have those who practice this audio suspension of cognitive reasons but I particularly detest the cretins who make his business to feed the fire of cerebral denial. Looking at the vintage labels he sell I think it is confirmed that this HK guy is an idiot and it would be hardly possible to explain to him what is necessary to do with diaphragms in order them to work properly.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 1 of 1 (7 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  S2 Diaphragm Types...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     117  739982  07-16-2004
  »  New  Vitavox S2 driver made in china..  What does it do right?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     36  146554  12-20-2006
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