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10-31-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1441
Post ID: 22177
Reply to: 22175
I do not belive
fiogf49gjkf0d
 steverino wrote:
Quite frankly, these products are of greater importance to people living in countries with irregular utility power. You don't have to be an audiophile to notice the benefits in that situation. For me they are more useful in evening out the sonics typical of late night listening to the rest of the day. There are quite a few audio components that provide a more noticeable impact on the sound, even cables.
Acutely I do not agree with these statements. I would not go for comparing contribution of bad electricity with contribution of bad cables, even those I feel that electricity 100s time more effective. The mains point that I would like to make is that statement "countries with irregular utility power" is kind of meaningless for the aspect that we are looking. I have no data of sonic perspective of electricity quality in different countries but I am quite certain that there is no country out that that have good for sound electricity. I might believe that one region of ordinary better and another worse but I would hardly believe that somewhere out there is a country that runs generator in super moderate 80% of load, has no digital power supplies, a perfect grid and no reactive load and no noise returning consumers. 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 351
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 1442
Post ID: 22179
Reply to: 22177
Audiophiles vs not
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 steverino wrote:
Quite frankly, these products are of greater importance to people living in countries with irregular utility power. You don't have to be an audiophile to notice the benefits in that situation. For me they are more useful in evening out the sonics typical of late night listening to the rest of the day. There are quite a few audio components that provide a more noticeable impact on the sound, even cables.
Acutely I do not agree with these statements. I would not go for comparing contribution of bad electricity with contribution of bad cables, even those I feel that electricity 100s time more effective. The mains point that I would like to make is that statement "countries with irregular utility power" is kind of meaningless for the aspect that we are looking. I have no data of sonic perspective of electricity quality in different countries but I am quite certain that there is no country out that that have good for sound electricity. I might believe that one region of ordinary better and another worse but I would hardly believe that somewhere out there is a country that runs generator in super moderate 80% of load, has no digital power supplies, a perfect grid and no reactive load and no noise returning consumers. 


Well I meant that in cases where the AC power wasn't simply larded with grunge but was irregular with outages you didn't need to be an audiophile to appreciate the product. Of course audiophiles find all kinds of things essential as connoisseurs customarily do. I guess we do have some disagreement as audiophiles on the relative Degree of significance for this component compared with alternatives. It may well be due to differences in audio systems and physical location/local AC. I am Not saying it has no benefit.
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1443
Post ID: 22180
Reply to: 22179
Disagree. PP is not UPS unit.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 steverino wrote:
Well I meant that in cases where the AC power wasn't simply larded with grunge but was irregular with outages you didn't need to be an audiophile to appreciate the product. Of course audiophiles find all kinds of things essential as connoisseurs customarily do. I guess we do have some disagreement as audiophiles on the relative Degree of significance for this component compared with alternatives. It may well be due to differences in audio systems and physical location/local AC. I am Not saying it has no benefit.
Well, I  truly consider PP as a product that meant to resolve the problem with power interruptions. For sure it cable to do it and might be market in this way but I think that PP is out of depth in this direction.  Ended if somebody lives in a part of a country where irregular electric supply means not irregularity of quality but actual outages then they for sure might appreciate the fact the PP would deal with it. however, the PP would be hardly a solution. The uninterruptible power supplies are not to meant to deal with power outages but meant to maintain power for a very short period of time until a standby generators kick in. So, if I need PP juts for that very utilitarian purpose - to care uninterruptible   power for a few minutes until my natural gas generator start then I would hardly need the PP but I would use 4-5 times less expensive solution. There is an army of commercial UPS devises  that use in datacenters, they are spectacular and super reliable. My servers are running protested  by a few 1.5kW APC units, can't say better words about them. Sonically however  the commercial UPS devises   are not good, with external power supply or not. So, in my view the benefits and the main reason of PP is not serving as uninterruptible devise but rather to serve as "good sounding device". One might ask a question differently: does PP sound good because it "fix" (let say partially fix) the incoming power or because it just itself sound good and overrides many of electricity problem. I do not have an answer to this question.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 112
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 1444
Post ID: 22181
Reply to: 22180
PP forever
fiogf49gjkf0d
       I sympathize with those who were caught up in the financial problems that pure power had when one of their salesmen went rogue and attempted to steal their product, which lead to a long court fight which they won. Obviously this didn't help the situation as the Chinese company is still advertising the stolen product.       While I live within 5 miles of the Seabrook atomic power plant, I've fought for 35 years with electric gremlins which sometimes made my system unlistenable and only on very few late-night listening sessions gave me superb sound. Everything was tried, from super expensive power cords, a separate service into the media room, multiple isolation transformers, large capacitor banks, generators, and ups units, to name a few; only the pure power units have solved the majority of the ac gremlins. Every time I listen now, I thank the heavens that a friend introduced me to Romy, who put me on to this company. Kudos to Romy for the introduction.
       I've had three of their original 1500 units in the past and now a 2000+, 3000+ and a 1500 power my system. Each has functioned perfectly, without problem for at least 6-7 years and continue to give me the best sound I've been able to achieve.      AC in this country sucks and is getting worse day by day with noise from multiple sources.   Persons who think that the pure power units are no better than different interconnects at improving the sound either have the best ac available, or a system that isn't good enough to hear the grunge that affects great systems, or some other reason.      I believe in their product so much that I gave up a reviewing job because the editor refused to allow me to further review their units as he disliked the letters he received from two or three audiophiles who had grievances with pure power. That's how much I believe in this product and would recommend that other readers at this sight run to www.partsconnexion.com and purchase one or two of these units while they are on sale.      I would also suggest to Richard that if he has any outstanding problems with members of this board that he immediately write here that he will make them whole and that those individuals report on this at their convenience. The air must be cleaned as this is too good a product to be lost to the audiophile community.
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 1445
Post ID: 22182
Reply to: 22181
Complicity
fiogf49gjkf0d
The reality is that PP's consumers encourage its business practices. It is rather like a woman complaining about an abusive boyfriend, only to return to him again and again. When those outraged by being lied to, by being kept waiting for years, are instantly pacified on receipt of a unit, PP knows it can just keep on pissing in its customers' faces, for they will just lap it all up. 
What is so bizarre about this masochism, is that few of those so willingly tortured have bothered to evaluate other examples of the same double conversion technology. Standard UPS units are not applicable here, for they are not usually double conversion. PP may be worthy of the fetishization it receives here, but no one has ever tested the question properly. And since there is no innovation in technology that PP can point to, a test cannot be dismissed a priori: many other units will do exactly the same thing, and may well also sound exactly the same.    
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 1446
Post ID: 22183
Reply to: 22182
Difference between PP+ 2000 and 3000
fiogf49gjkf0d
I wonder what difference people found between PP+ 2000 and 3000.I do not need the 3000 power
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 351
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 1447
Post ID: 22184
Reply to: 22183
Stress test
fiogf49gjkf0d
TonyB,

Romy has commented on the perceived differences between the 2000 and 3000 as well as the older units and the Plus units earlier in the thread.

I am thinking that the power utilization level of a system may be a significant factor in perceived benefit of the units (apart from proximity to nuclear power plants). I use the 1050s and I have tried them on all four of my systems including a headphone system. I was slightly surprised that the most audible benefit was not on the headphone system but instead on the most AC power intensive system (albeit it still only draws 35% of the 1050 capacity). People who use the 3000 seem more enthusiastic about the product (in my admittedly limited experience) but it may be just that it benefits higher power systems more than lower power ones.
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1448
Post ID: 22185
Reply to: 22183
Some comments about PP power rating.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think people generally do not understand what PP power rating is. Regarding a total power VA that a given unit can produces there is another and probably the most valuable aspect: how much power of the total PP power makes sense to use. In my experiments I concluded that the best sonic results I got from PP3000 when I load it with 40%-60%. I did not make those experiments with PP3000+ . Also, it would be worth to note that I use class A power amps  with input choke filtration. So, based upon what I have seen If I consider a PP then I would get the unit that make my enter playback to run at max 50% load. So, a 300W unit would be good for 1500W playback. It is not that that 3000W unit would not work with 2500W load but I got less intersting sound. A warning however. I Used 1600W of my playback load and 1000W of resistive complimentary load. So, with reactive load the result might be different...


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 1449
Post ID: 22186
Reply to: 22185
PP+ Loading
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thank you both.

My loading is pretty small since the 2A3 SET amps take only about 250VA total.
Add to it tubed phono and DAC/transport and it is still not much.

I may be getting bass units, each with its own plate amp. These can be
a few hundred Watts each. So the power could go up.

Romy, did you run something like a 1000W light in addition to 1600W
audio load on the PP+ 3000?
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1450
Post ID: 22187
Reply to: 22186
More experiments is needed.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 TonyB wrote:
Romy, did you run something like a 1000W light in addition to 1600W audio load on the PP+ 3000?

I did it as experiment, to hear how the PP would sound fully loaded. If you have 250W and 3000W unit them you might load let say 700-800W (an iron in half power) to hear how would it sound. It would be very interesting to try to use some kind reactive ballast load and try to dial in the reactive component to get the best sound. I did not experiment with it but I think if one has a lot of power to waste then it might be a very worthwhile direction. What would be very interesting to learn is when the electricity is absolute crap and PP does what it does but still can’t make it as it should be then would different loading pattern make any difference in the way how PP is fighting the bad electricity. Again, I did don’t make these experiments. 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1451
Post ID: 22189
Reply to: 22187
Loading the AC Regenerators
fiogf49gjkf0d
An electrical engineer who works for the power company (and who has no interest in hi-fi) was incredulous that I did not know that all "conditioners" and "regenerators" are aimed at a specific type of load, at least in terms of their ability to do what they are designed to do. The way he (impatiently) "explained" it, a unit that works well into a capacitive load will not "work properly" into a resistive or inductive load, etc. Too bad there are loudspeakers hanging off our amps. While I am still a long way from understanding why anything would "work" for hi-fi, I still imagine that the PP first "filters and buffers" the power through a battery, then it "dithers" the electricity, so it somehow "homogenizes" it.


Paul S
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 1452
Post ID: 22190
Reply to: 22189
A Compendium of Noise Sources on AC Lines
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's the title of a manual I was given some twenty years ago, an official publication of some electrical association or other. (I can't locate it at the moment.) Two things however remain indelibly imbedded in my mind. "Pole bangers" are the guys who are sent out with heavy mallets to, yes, bang on high-voltage towers to shake up the connections and stuff, leading to lower noise etc. And then after relating all the various noise sources that can appear at the user end of the distribution chain, this unforgettable conclusion is reached: "And so the worst noise contributors are found to exist within the range of 15-15000 Hz."
Ouch.
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1453
Post ID: 22191
Reply to: 22190
Okie Dokie
fiogf49gjkf0d
15 - 15k Hz... Hmmm...

Clark, I guess we'll just have to work around it! ;>Wink


Best regards,
Paul S
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 351
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 1454
Post ID: 22192
Reply to: 22191
Nirvana exists
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well I don't know for sure about nirvana but we need to keep remembering that we have comparisons of battery operated (AC disconnected) audio devices that provide a control or criterion of sorts as we do in cables with bypass devices. So the maximum benefit is already available in some level of practical implementation to measure the delta. No matter what we do recordings sound like recordings alas. However my 45s sound closer to mastertape than do the 33.3s. Convenience uber alles?
11-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 1455
Post ID: 22193
Reply to: 22092
JohnR Contact
fiogf49gjkf0d
John, how can I contact you?

TonyB

 JOHNR wrote:

<font size="2">The system starts as a commercial multi voltage smps unit, 48 volt output from Meanwell.<br />I place this in a box because I have to equip the unit with a multiple pole filter card.<br />The output is fixed, 300 watts and connected to a dc filter board equipped with 4 outputs namely amp1, amp2, line amp, DAC.<br />They are in turn rated at 2amps, 2 amps 1amp and 1 amp and the CMchokes are sized to suit.<br />I hard wire each of these in turn with a 4 way power cord equipped with a special 4 way plug on the end.<br /><br />The significance of the 4 way power cord is that I build all of the system with a Power Ground (PE) and an RF ground and of course the main power feeds  +24 and -24.  Over the years of development I have identified common mode noise sources and have designed solutions to control this noise.<br />The PE connections are brought into the box and are connected to the power plug socket to comply with safety regulations.<br />the RFG connections are terminated on a dedicated single socket on the back of the box;actually an Eichmann binding post.  This is connected in turn to a plug for insertion into a power strip.  Anally retentive audiophiles can of course connect this directly to a ground post hammered into the soil.  I live on the 23rd floor so I connect it to the power strip.  The plug location does make a difference so it is to be tried out in each location for best results.<br /><br />Each amplifier and line amplifier is fitted with a socket and a central filter unit that serves to isolate each of the converters from each other.<br />The outputs are respectively: tube 1, tube 2, DHT filament and the B+ generator board.  Nowadays I use a common filament supply for ease of build and it happens to out perform the other types that I have built over the years.<br /><br />I have covered the filament supply in a similar post today and in the case of  DAC supply, the same applies.<br />If by chance your DAC needs 15 volts for example, I cannot help there.  But, as an advisory,if you use the bulk supply smps, obtain the same converter module from Element 14, choose a lower rated version, equip the output with at least 2 different types of common mode chokes caps on the front, center and end to bring the nose levels down and hook it up. The components all fit on Vero board centers otherwise hard wire using hookup wire.<br /><br />Depending upon general interest, I will make available to the individual whatever he requires to move forward with this.<br /><br />I should point out that I live in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia so unless anyone lives locally, listening will not be possible.  Tourists though will be most welcome.<br /><br />Sharing is GO.<br />Regards<br />John<br /><br />Schematics -- can be made available however, we need to determine file types and so forth for readability.<br /></font>
11-03-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JOHNR
Posts 24
Joined on 10-12-2015

Post #: 1456
Post ID: 22196
Reply to: 22193
Ability to reply
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have not figured out how to reply to this by direct email.
I for one, am not keen on publishing my own email because of the abuse that will follow.

If it can be done, one on one through this server, can you let me know how and I will contact you.

One possibility is via SMS.  low cost even though I live in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia.
If interested sne to ++603 12 215 5716.  Or provide me an SMS number and I will send my email to you.

John
11-04-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005

Post #: 1457
Post ID: 22198
Reply to: 22196
COntacting John
fiogf49gjkf0d
John,

Did you get my text message?

Tony
11-06-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JOHNR
Posts 24
Joined on 10-12-2015

Post #: 1458
Post ID: 22199
Reply to: 22198
Ongoing filament supplies
fiogf49gjkf0d
Regrettably, No and thank you for trying.

my cell number is 012 215 5716. 

You should send ** as international access code then 60 12 215 5716 assuming that your cell system lets you do this, it may not.

Regards John
11-20-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 1459
Post ID: 22230
Reply to: 20415
Power Distribution Question
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sorry if this is a trivial question already answered somewhere.

I have just finished installing 3 dedicated lines for analog source, digital and power amps.
They run directly from the house power meter, with a dedicated subpanel, each individually fused (with old-style Siemens Diazed fuses)
and with two grounds: one heavy litz and one solid core, connected at the meter.

Now I can either squeeze all the power outlets in one distribution box, star connecting all the grounds
to the heavy litz and using the 2nd ground as a drain (see the pic below)

or

I can separate one of the line (digital, amps?) in a dedicated box with its own ground.

Which solution would be better, if any, from your experience?
Thanks in advance,
N-set

PowerDistributionBox.jpg





Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-21-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1460
Post ID: 22231
Reply to: 22230
The one that produces best noise and less ground loops.
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is absolutely impossible to say how you need to organize grounds to be “right”, it is not to mention that you leave in country (region) where the power destitution lines might be different then in other country. For sure there is a compliance with building code that might be considered “right” but it is not always a right solution for audio person. Fortunately it is very easy to test. Connect your phono stage, max out your volume and experiment until you get silent grounds. In US, where we have very dirty grounds, it is frequent that you do not use the grid ground at all and you’re your own ground. It is very hard to make any general recommendations about tracing ground loops. To me to a great degree it is actually a fan process…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 73 of 96 (1,911 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 71 72 73 74 75 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  167163  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  105717  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  893554  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  255142  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  104364  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  156999  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Confirmation and Relief...  Didital Things  Forum     26  217816  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  75764  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  41575  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  80536  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  27978  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  15998  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  System Warm up...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1910  9405547  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  148611  10-24-2010
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