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05-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RF at Ona
Posts 12
Joined on 05-29-2007

Post #: 321
Post ID: 16377
Reply to: 16368
Reducing A/C Noise
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy,
You maybe thinking of your a/c problem backwards.

In use, air conditioning vents become louder as the air speed and turbulence increase.
Reducing the aperture of a vent can increase noise because a reduced aperture increases air flow speed and turbulence (venturi principle).

You want somewhat more airflow but SLOWER air speed
You do NOT want a more powerful air pressure blowing harder and faster.

To get this you want to:
1 - use a more open vent style or
2 - remove the vent grill entirely or
3 - replace with larger vents or
4 - install additional vents without increasing the ducting attached to the primary manifold. You would have to divide the existing ducting or a use a small secondary manifold near the listening room vents. (This assumes the cooling of the listening room is now adequate and only a small increase in airflow is necessary if any – of course a long hot summer could alter your current appraisal).

Adding an extra duct/vent connected to the primary manifold would alter the relative cooling to the listening room without slowing down the airflow speed at the vents (although it would slightly reduce the air pressure on all vents in the house)

As a test, try removing the vent grills in your listening room, you should get more airflow with less noise. If this produces an improvement than going to larger or additional vents would be suggested.


About your kitchen a/c noise,
Some of these thoughts apply to your noisy kitchen ventilation.

Also, I would not be surprised if your kitchen a/c had a shorter and straighter duct than other rooms in your house. Air friction through the duct is increased by the length and bending of the duct. The vents in your house supplied by shorter and straighter ducts may have a stronger output than desired and are closed down producing more noise while vents with longer and more serpentine ducts are opened fully and produce less noise.

You could also reduce the kitchen vent noise by adding a larger or additional vent along with a duct constriction closer to the primary manifold. This would preserve the airflow and move the noise closer to the manifold where it is partially baffled by the ducting.

Adding an additional length of ducting and snaking the superfluous duct around would increase the noise reducing effect of the duct.

An a/c contractor probably has a bag of tricks for these modest problems and changes. Be glad that the sound and vibration from the a/c ventilation fan is not a problem – that is a more serious issue in terms of annoyance and remedy.


About your ceiling fans,
If you wish to increase the air circulation but not the basic a/c cooling in your listening room you are going to need better ceiling fans than the ones you described. Increasing air circulation is what ceiling fans do and work well and quietly doing.

Your ceiling fans should always become quieter as they are used at slower speeds (less vibration and air turbulence). If they don’t work that way, you are most likely hearing the groaning sound of the electric motors used at a speed they don’t like and not fan noise itself. You should rarely or barely hear a good ceiling fan in operation at slower speeds. They make a considerable improvement in summer cooling comfort and also in redistributing warm air in winter when they are barely moving.

Regards,
Robert

05-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 322
Post ID: 16379
Reply to: 16377
HVAC the Cat
fiogf49gjkf0d
Robert,

Yes, of cause I understand it. The problem is that when I laid down the pipes under the midbass horns there was no larger diameter available then 6” pipes, there was no more clearance under the mouth. So, my listening room has two 6” pipes and they are very long, let say 50 feet. This diameter and this length create very large air impedance. I have relatively powerful 2.5T air conditioner. I requested my air guy to install the remote controlled air routing system that would put the whole force of my air conditioner unit into those pipes. He felt that this air impedance would not allow my air conditioner to drain the full flow and he install a bypass for cold air, otherwise he feel that I will freeze my compressor. So, what I did was opening the ducts to other rooms and drain the air with chokes unit I get proper air flow across the system and through the listening room ducts. Unfortunately I have old unit that does not allow varying power, I heard the new air conditions do…

About the ducts. Do not let me started. I invested a lot of time to research the subject and I do have very good one that do not make any noise and do not restrict the air flow. Beloved me or not but they cost me $180, bronze-made.
 
I do like your idea of adding an extra duct/vent connected to the primary manifold. I do have this option but I need to find a duct that will dispatch air at VERY sharp angle, high velocity and silent and I would like it to blow from other room to my listening room…. I will be working on this option. BTW, I have absolutely no sound and vibration from the a/c ventilation.

About your ceiling fans. I will research this subject. I have a strong feeling that the noose I get from fans when I reduce the rotation speed is due to the fact the I use the SS dimmers that basically clip the wave. Perhaps the fan motors do not like it. I need to try to run it from VARIAC, but I do not think it will be practical on the long run. I wonder if exist any wall-mounted not SS dimmers… I very much hope that dimmers are the problem.

Anyhow, I am sure there was a progress with air fans for last 20 years. I will be looking into it. The small fans got much quitter for the last 10 years, I do not think that ceiling fans shall be much different.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
T3GGG
Posts 9
Joined on 02-06-2011

Post #: 323
Post ID: 16380
Reply to: 16379
Big Ass fan
fiogf49gjkf0d
I saw these in an Architectural product magazine, not sure of their noise level but may be worth looking at

http://www.bigassfans.com/residential/index.html

06-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 324
Post ID: 16381
Reply to: 16379
Variac dimmers
fiogf49gjkf0d
I use these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/RECORDING-STUDIO-NO-NOISE-DUAL-VARIAC-LIGHTING-DIMMER-/110477881627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19b8feb11b

...though you cannot easily put them in a wall owing to the depth. If you can, they work perfectly.
06-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ghpicard
Posts 12
Joined on 12-15-2008

Post #: 325
Post ID: 16383
Reply to: 16379
Ceiling fan speed controls
fiogf49gjkf0d
>About your ceiling fans. I will research this subject. I have a strong feeling that the noose I get from fans when I reduce the rotation speed is due to the >fact the I use the SS dimmers that basically clip the wave. Perhaps the fan motors do not like it. I need to try to run it from VARIAC, but I do not think it >will be practical on the long run. I wonder if exist any wall-mounted not SS dimmers… I very much hope that dimmers are the problem. 
Hi Romy,    There are inductive (A.K.A. impedance) fan speed controls. Totally silent and the cheapest of all. Of course they have only 3-4 speed options but guaranteed to make zero electrical noise. If you are using SS dimmers that most certainly will inject and radiate electrical noise all over the place. But be warned that many fan motors are just mechanically noisy and in that case there is nothing else to do but changing the whole assembly.
Gaston
06-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 326
Post ID: 16384
Reply to: 16383
Ceiling fans controls and my idiocy.
fiogf49gjkf0d

What an idiot I was.  I made a few phone calls and inquired about a few high end ceiling fans. The smallest 6” BigAssFan cost about $3K, I need two – so it is kind of too expensive. Some other best fans are around $1K each.  They all promise around 45dB noise, forgetting to say from which distance. At listening position my two ceiling fans fan at full speed do 58dB. The air noise does not bother me, the fans are large and the noise is relatively low frequency. What bothers me is the buzzing and the presence of the sound of closed “A” vowel. It feels like it is sound of motor or bearing…. Then I begin to read on the subject, here is for instance:

http://www.ceiling-fans-n-more.com/ceiling-fan-controls.php

Well, I have two SS dimmers that drive the fans. It has to be the problem. I took them off and put the regular switches. Hallelujah! The “A” hamming instantly gone and the fans begin to spin faster! Now they produce much more air flow then before and at listening position they do 49dB. The noise is not much lower but it has no annoying harmonics and I do not even need to lower the fan speed. Apparently the SS dimmers even at full bypass did screw the wave.  Well, the idiocy is not fully belong to me as the fans and the dimmers come with the house- and the guy who use to live here was master-electrician. Anyhow, the problem is gone.

BTW, ghpicard, the use of dimmers does not radiate electrical noise in my case. I mean it does and a single dimmer in house does fuckup up Sound very dramatically. It can be even measure not only heard. However I have dozens of dimmer in house and I use them very adhesively with zero impact to Sound.  The answer is PP2000. You can say whatever about the PP2000 but among many things that it goes absolutely perfectly is eradicatation of any sonic impact from dimmers. I did many experiments trying to detect if Sound would be affected by many of my dimmers. I was not able to detect it.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-08-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 327
Post ID: 16807
Reply to: 13235
About my old system vs. the new system, as now.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Jorge wrote:
I listened to Romys old system,  I am sure the new one sound better….
With everyone who comes to my place we discuss that subject: how audio installation in my new listening room sound different from the playback I had in my old place. It is interesting subject. Jorge and perhaps others presume that “new one sound better” but the real answer to this question is not so straight forward. I do myself ask this question frequently, put in this way “use to ask”, and I would like to share my thought about it.

Near year and half ago I move to new house and built a new listening room there were a lot of changes with my playback. New midbass how, new ULF, new room, new speaker positioning, etc etc etc…. The core of the playback was not changed but the way how playback presents itself of changed a lot. In the all place, partially because it was extreme nearfield positioning the playback bit you off right the way, aggressively and immediately. At the new place this sense of bitten urgency got subdued and replaced by other characteristics, less immediately gratifying but in my estimation more appropriate on a long run.

The very major change that took place in the new room is the whole framework, the whole seething of listening and how normal life interacts with listening ceremony. I hugely appreciate this change and the listening setting I built-into in the new listening room in my estimation are perfect for what I am looking.  I truly can’t say that I would like to have any different listening condition then what I have.

There are many positive new properties of sound in the new room but I will omit them and will tale only about negative one. So, what did I lose in the new room? In my estimation I have a SLIGHTLY more calm density of colors and little more tranquil response to dynamic contrasts. I attribute it to much larger room and to the fact that in old room practically each inch of the walls and ceiling were covers with “things”. The new room has much wider free reflecting surfaces. I do not have immediate plans to do anything with it as now.

I lost that absolutely phenomenal and very unique horizontal curving of imaging that I use to have.  I do some fraction of it today but it is not as good as it use to be.

The next thing that I lost is the way how bass arrange itself in horizontal plane. In the old room it was amassing and absolutely unique, in fact I never ever was able to see the similar effect anywhere else. In the new room I have different bass and different way bass present itself. I do like bass in new room much better but I do prefer the bass presentation of the old room. Well, you can’t step in the same river twice an, the old bass drifter away… I still will be looking how to get what I use to have in old room but with much larger room and the layout of the speakers I am having now I do not think it might be possible. I am not frustrated with my current bass but I do note the reality of “before” and “after”.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-25-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 328
Post ID: 17429
Reply to: 13235
Some winter observations.
fiogf49gjkf0d
This year is the first winter that I live with this new listening room. Last winter the playback was up and I still was playing with minor arrangements of my ULF channels, cable and a few other things. For many months I do pretty much nothing with my playback, I just turn it on and off. The minnow things: like changing tonearm and replace regenerator are not really important.

Nowadays and it got cold outsider I tend to run my power amp all time when I am home. Even if I live for couple hours I do not turn them off. I do turn them off what I live for more than 4-5 hour or overnight.  My power amps eat 720W, with sub 50% efficiency 400W are pure hit that is radiated into my room.  I have combined heating system in my listening room: hot water baseboard with radiant floor heating. I figured out that the hot water is losing efficiency by   gas-water-air exchange. In addition the amount of hit lost during delivery hot water over the pipes shall be high. With amps brining right in the room the heating effect has 100W efficiency and each partial of heat the amp wasted the room very much use. So, by venture of higher efficiency let presume that 320W that I waste by running amp 100W get recover by more efficient heating then my hot water house heating. That lives 220W that is nice and moderate amount of electricity to waste. The flood light that shines all nigh lighting up your yard takes approximately the same wattage.

Of cause running playback all time do not serve heating propose and the mentioned above is juts BS that I am trying to sell myself in order to justify what I do. During the last few month I listed a lot of music, radio, LP, tapes, DAW, CD; a lot of new music sometimes, and I feel it is very handy to have amps running all time. I do turn on/off my phonostage, my Lavry A/D converter after Schwarz and pump of my TT – they are the only switches that I use. In fact it is kind of bizarre by what I come to my room with amps off then the room does not feel friendly to me and it do not feel warm with no amps running even if it has 72F in room….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-26-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 329
Post ID: 17576
Reply to: 13235
That Asian man….
fiogf49gjkf0d

I need to admit that I absolutely adore my listing room. I like absolutely everything about it and if I enumerate what hat I like about it then the list will be long. Ironically, from a perspective of self-education I sometime try to nail down what would I do with my listening room if I built it from scratch and was not bound by any limitations of currently existing real-estate. Any my fantasies still go to the direction of multiple “random” cavities and I end up with the very same room that I currently have.

In the best scenario, building the room it from scratch, I would change two things.

First, I would make the house entry not directly to listening room and got rid of the entry door.  It is not that it bothers me but it would let me have another 7-8 feet of the self with records in the listening room. I do have another main entry to the house but I do not use at all and always use the entry in my house from deck. I do have an idea how to do it move my usable entry to another location but it will be combined with another project of 50K-60K price tag, something that might do in future but have no desire to do now.

Second, I would like my listening room to be 3-4 feet deeper, not wider but deeper. No I do not want to sit further from the residue of the back wall as it will screw up my midbass-horn time aliment (they live above the back wall). The purpose to have the room deeper is to have extra few feet of space behind the loudspeakers.

Macondo is 6 feet extended from the back wall to the center of the room. For Macondo topology I feel it is sufficient extension and under normal conditions Macondo would not read the wall behind it. But the “normal conditions” imply the wall behind loudspeakers to be treated and it is not my case. In my case I have 22 feet long, 4-section French glass door behind and in my estimation in order Macondo do not read them I would need extra 3-4 feet depth of the room behind Macondo. The 2 out of 4 sections of the French door I keep covered with acoustically-very-nice cellulose blinds but the mid 2 section I keep all time uncover and I feel that they do screw imaging, not too much but they do. Sure I can lower the blinds on them as well or I can put some kind of treatment on the glass but I like the open view. So, this brings me to the Asian man after whom I named the post.

It was over 10 year back in Vegas. I met at CES a guy who represented some kind of company or himself, I do not remember. All that I remember was that he was an Asian man and I can’t even say what ethnicity he was. So, this man showed me his product that at this time did not impress me as I had no need for it. It was some kind of heavy compound that he recommended to apply to glass in order to shape the reflective acoustic quality of glass. He claimed the he can rotate phase, up to 180 degree (!!!), with his applicator, let call it “applicator” for the luck of better name. I remember that I was arguing with him, suggesting that is imposable to reface phase with by his method but he was confident and proposed to try it.

So, my question is: did anybody know anything about that Asian guy or the technology he claimed to use. I admit the I would try his applicator at my glass now and would give to the technology very attentive testing in my room. If his applicator works then I might use it or perhaps combine his applicator with some very light, view not obtrusive acoustic treatment of my glass.

I do consider using some in-space resonators between Macondo and glass but I did not know the credible people who do them. Whoever I know who use the in-space resonators are accustomed to the Sound that I would not bother to improve by anything besides dynamite.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-21-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 330
Post ID: 17726
Reply to: 13235
The Franz Schubert morning
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is kind of strange – there is absolutely nothing to write at my site. I use playback dally, have a lot of new and old interesting music but I tend to write about it at other sites. From audio perspectives I have absolutely nothing what is doing on and frankly very little interest to think what going on in audio out there. Since the new dedicated line and PP3000 I had no single bad electricity day and the sound perfectly enough not to be bothered with audio. I pretty much juts tune playback on and off – this is all my enrolment with audio and sound reproduction.

Now, as winter progresses I discover a new way to listening.  I absolute adore seeing the snow fall and in my listening room it is so pleasant to do. As now we are having quite heavy snow fall and WCRB is broadcasting a phenomenal program with Schubert songs. I lower the temperature in the room to 63F and turn on my wonderful listening chair heater. It is cold out there but in my chair is beautiful. Listening the Schubert lieder, watching the snow and cooking in the local heat is so damn wonderful! Below is the picture from my listening chair. The heavy snowfall is not visible on the picture but it is there…

RoomWinter2012s.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-12-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 331
Post ID: 17958
Reply to: 17726
Spring....
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is 75F in Boston, unseasonably warm. I got home today and it is 68F in my listening room and 75F outside, it is sign that spring came and you know what Cats do in march – you are right  - getting horny on open air Bruckner listening. So that what I did. I have opened all window and doors and let the bird’s noise to fill up the listening room. Then I put in the house entrance door sign “Do not resuscitate” and played the Bruckner. Probably like no other work the Fifth needs a presence of open air – you just can’t listen it in concert hall. I played Franz Konwitschny with Leipzig from 1974 - not the most mesmerizing play in my view but a solid concert version of Bruckner 5. The sound was very pleasant. The few day in road the electricity was not good, probably the first time over the last few months but it sounds like today electricity is almost back. Can voices of the birds cure the harmonic distortion of power grid? I do not know the answer but anyhow the season was officially opened…

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-01-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 332
Post ID: 18111
Reply to: 13235
Different acoustics in my listening room.
fiogf49gjkf0d

It is well known that the requirements to acoustic environment for life music and for audio installations are very different.   For life music we need much more what we would call in audio “live” acoustic setting, letting the instruments to breathe. For audio we need much more controlled environment, with much- much shorter reverberation time. What we in audio consider “too live” room would be “super dead” even for a string trio and in the environment those musicians would consider live enough for them audio out would hardly be able to operate as it will be too life for us.

I have a friend of my a few days ago playing in my listening room her viola. I was very much looking to hear it, in my old listening room I had stings playing many times. The result was pretty much what I expected: very direct sound with superb focus over distance. The listening of viola from 3 feet and from 20 feet does add some life reverberation but do not lose focus and sense of immediacy. This is not too great environment for musician to perform but it is exactly how I feel it has to be in a listening room for audio. Interesting was her reaction. She said that in my room she hears exactly what she does and it is a good place to practice.

I have my ways, in order to have live musicians to add longer reverberation to my listening room, still maintaining high focus and high immediacy. In fact, if I find a motivated string quartet then I would like to record them in my listening room. I do not think that it will be great as I would need to drop a lot of acoustic treatment or to have a room 4-6 time larger. It still might be interesting as I might (or might) develop new or finer objectives in my sound reproduction.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 333
Post ID: 18218
Reply to: 13235
Hypothetic abstract perfect listening room?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I had a few days ago a conversation if I even move out from my current listening room. The conversation was purely hypothetical and it led me to think about hypothetic abstract perfect listening room.

I very much enjoy my current listening room and the room has a lot that might be understood only using this actual room. Still the subject of perfect listening room is very interesting. As we look and evaluate listening rooms we always bind themselves to the specific incoming conditions – price, existing real-estate, etc… However, what would be a perfect listening room if there is no limits, there is no cost boundaries and there is no restriction in real-estate on any kind? I am taking about a hypothetic room for Macondo-like topology built from scratch and no holds barred?

I have seen a number of build from scratch listening room and I am not a big fan of any of them. I have seen some very good sounding rooms but there were not the rooms that consider “abstract perfect listening room” as my definition of perfection implies an organic incorporation of listening and living facilities. I have seen one VERY smooth installation were speaker were hidden in the columns in the middle of the room with church-line arches going to the ceiling. It was very slick but it was not applicable to Macondo- topology or to any horn-loading topology.

Honestly I do not have any need to think about it but I do have pleasure to think about the absolute perfect listening room as a concept. As the concept I would like to inherit many features that my current listening room has but of cause to be “absolute perfect” it would be probably slightly different room configuration.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 334
Post ID: 18220
Reply to: 18218
The ultimate piece of equipment
fiogf49gjkf0d
This is one of my favorite topics.  Not from a technical aspect, but as an ultimate way of life question.  I spend an enormous amount of time listening to music, which means my family basically lives in the music room. In our house, however, the music room is one of the smallest pieces!
I remember a picture of an enormous living room with large glass windows behind avantgarde trios, bookshelves running floor to ceiling on the sides. It is on the ostentatious side of my dreams, but still I could live with it!
I can add about 500sq ft onto my house and am always thinking how to build my music room.  That won't be an enormous space, but more than workable with my acoustic system.
05-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 335
Post ID: 18221
Reply to: 18220
Just good photography?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 RonyWeissman wrote:
I remember a picture of an enormous living room with large glass windows behind avantgarde trios, bookshelves running floor to ceiling on the sides. ….
I was in that listening room in 2000. At that time the owner did not use it as it was depicted in the picture but the room was very pretty. It is in Connecticut, the wife is doctor the husband is former catholic priest – very interesting people.  The room in my view even though it very lovely but it gig not have the right acoustic features. I also not too conversed but I think that the famous picture with trios sitting in from of huge glass wall with garden (along with a private waterfall) behind was made juts for sake of good phonogrphy and it was not the permanent place for the Trios.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 336
Post ID: 18222
Reply to: 18218
Try to "live" in that "perfect" room....
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PerfectRomm.JPG


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 337
Post ID: 18223
Reply to: 18220
The ultimate music room and the sound of silence.
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 RonyWeissman wrote:
This is one of my favorite topics.  

I completly share this sentiment.

There is clearly nothing nearly as important as the listening room itself and having the possibility of building a listening room from scratch is precisely the sort of opportunity that I have been aiming for for a number of years.

Trying to while away the time in Basel airport recently, I picked up a French magazine (Stereo Prestige & Image No. 67 Mai 2012, pg 20-26) which has a 6 page article by Jean Hiraga, which looks at an audiophile’s listening room in some detail. It is fascinating reading and it was surprising that the owner there positioned his room located in the suburbs of Tokyo 12m deep underground, and accessed by a lift..This room is supplied directly by two 30KVA transformers located on the property, drawing power from the grid. The room seems to have been made into some sort of Faraday cage and although it is not particularly large, it seems to be quite effective at what it sets out to achieve.

This particular Japanese installation appears quite extreme. The owner for example makes use of a dedicated antenna used to capture the 10MHz GPS signal from the Trimble Thunderbolt reference clock (see www.trimble.com/timing), which the owner claims gives an auditable improvement over the OCX Master Clock from Antelope Audio or the Rubidium G-0D clock from Esoteric, which superiority the owner is apparently happy to demonstrate at the flick of a switch. One can sense that the reporter, Jean Hiraga, is quite taken aback by the extreme methods resorted to by this Japanese audiophile to achieve his ‘perfect’ listening room...I strongly recommend you pick up the magazine as this article alone makes it worth the entry ticket. The rest of the system is horn loaded for the midrange and HF ( YL D-35000 II and YL D-55000 II, YL D-18000 Y) but direct radiating for LF (15” Goto SG-38WNSS). All in all the main objectives of this listening room seem to be (i) as low a noise floor as humanly possible (ii) immunity from the vagaries of the mains power supply (iii) electromagnetic isolation.

What is perfect for this audiophile would be however simply maddening for me. I would hate to be so deep underground and could not live with the restricted access using a lift. The room is also too small (35m2) to my liking although I do not doubt that it addresses most of the issues that one may have even with considerably larger rooms. I would also loathe to have my future listening room to be so far removed from the main house. In my case I am lucky in that the plot of land that I bought recently in Alsace with a view to building my PassivHaus allows me to build a listening room which is underground for the most part but above ground on the west side and so should present a view of the gentle roll of the Vosges mountains, vineyards and a lovely sunset to boot in the evening when I generally listen to music...

Best regards
Rakesh 
05-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 338
Post ID: 18224
Reply to: 18223
It is all about the civilian-friendliness....
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Interesting the stressing the importance of the listening room Rakesh went into depth of discussing reference clocks and YL drivers that are very irrelevant to the subject of the rooms.

The Rony’s comment about the expression of “ultimate way of life” is very accurately described what I feel. I had the very same objective what I was thinking about my current listening room: to have “family basically lives in the music room”. In my view my current listening room is very good accomplishment of the concept. The image about the in my view would depict the perfect technical setting for perfect listening room would hardly be friendly for living facilities as if you position 40Hz horns in front position then all bets are off and there is no way the room will be friendly for normal living. The way how I hided my midbass horns is very remarkable and no one would understand it unit you visit my room, hear the sound and see that the horn do not exist in the room, literally – they are not there, even they do offer the right sonic contribution.  With the horn in front position it very controversial. The only “interesting” solution that I know off is my old idea to hang the midbass horns in air between the acoustic system and ceiling. Jessie of all people could pull it off but I do not think his project have materialized yet. I would LOVE to see it happen another day. The idea same to me as I have seen people hanged a destroyed grand piano in air and it was absolutely spectacular decoration of high-ceiling loft.

So, from purely conceptual standpoint I wonder if that level of civilian-friendliness that I have in my listening room might be achievable with front-located midbass horns.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 339
Post ID: 18225
Reply to: 18224
Ambient noise and how I would minimise it
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Interesting the stressing the importance of the listening room Rakesh went into depth of discussing reference clocks and YL drivers that are very irrelevant to the subject of the rooms.

The Rony’s comment about the expression of “ultimate way of life” is very accurately described what I feel. I had the very same objective what I was thinking about my current listening room: to have “family basically lives in the music room”. In my view my current listening room is very good accomplishment of the concept. The image about the in my view would depict the perfect technical setting for perfect listening room would hardly be friendly for living facilities as if you position 40Hz horns in front position then all bets are off and there is no way the room will be friendly for normal living. The way how I hided my midbass horns is very remarkable and no one would understand it unit you visit my room, hear the sound and see that the horn do not exist in the room, literally – they are not there, even they do offer the right sonic contribution.  With the horn in front position it very controversial. The only “interesting” solution that I know off is my old idea to hang the midbass horns in air between the acoustic system and ceiling. Jessie of all people could pull it off but I do not think his project have materialized yet. I would LOVE to see it happen another day. The idea same to me as I have seen people hanged a destroyed grand piano in air and it was absolutely spectacular decoration of high-ceiling loft.

So, from purely conceptual standpoint I wonder if that level of civilian-friendliness that I have in my listening room might be achievable with front-located midbass horns.

Rgs, Romy the Cat

Romy,

The main point I made was actually quite relevant to the discussion I would say!

Your listening room probably needs to be heard to be fully appreciated but I am sure that in terms of ambient noise, good as it is, it could be better. You have these large doors opening on the outside and I have a feeling your house was built using usual american materials. I would hasard a guess that your room is fairly exposed to environmental noises of all sorts. Far from me be it to criticise, and i suffer even more of this problem as mu current listening room in France is at the front of the house leading directly onto the road, albeit that the walls are stone and about 80cm thick or so. It is just part and parcel of most listening rooms nowadays that they are not truly 'silent'. On the other hand, the solution pursued by this japanese audiophile is just too extreme to my taste and I would like the soundproofing of having solid earth around the main perimeter of the room but with an open part leading to a view over the surrounding countryside...and use properly specified sound proof glass, which would have to be triple glazed and built to 'PassivHaus' standards in any case.

As for the comments on the clock, it was just to give an idea of the extremes this audiophile would resort to in his installation, to give to some idea of context for those who cannot just pick up a copy of this magazine but are interested. 

Best regards
Rakesh

05-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 340
Post ID: 18226
Reply to: 18225
Sports car
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I personally like the idea of an audio room like a very dedicated room, Monoplatz with only the sweetspot seat.  If I have to climb through an elevator or slide into a cockpit it is fine as long as the machine runs fast!
For me it is like submerging myself in sound for a soul treatment!

Now in the real world, having  kids this is complicated... But if we talk about the ideal audio room!!!

I would maybe put "sails" all around the room like a continuation of the 30hz horns,  I had some hanging a few years back and the soundstage was awsome!
Any very extreme room treatment!

The size would be I think, medium,  I love the effects of a smaller room filled with sound but hate the limited soundstage...
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