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In the Forum: Horn-Loaded Speakers
In the Thread: Aporia - Silbatone Acoustics speaker

Post Subject: Listening to specific case is precisely my point, typology be damnedPosted by Joe Roberts on: 1/15/2009

Cat:

First off, the Silbatone Aporia is $30k/pr not 100k. You could do 6 speaker surround with Aporia for well under $100k. Hope you feel better now.

"So what," I say. $30k is already too much for my pocket. I am on a fellowship this year and cheapskate every year, so $10k or even $1k is too much for me right now.

Yes, the Edgar system may be less expensive but Aporia is "100% particle board free" and that is worth something.

The Silbatone folks have money and they are audio crazy and they naturally assume there are others like them who will BUY when they hear the Aporia. I hope they are right. They sure stand a better chance in Korea where there are a lot of rich guys who really love music than in this sorry-ass 2009 USA market.

In any case, I have not had a commercially produced system as my main speaker for 20 years. I like to build stuff....that was my main hobby for many years. Only my tuner and CD player is factory made. When I get factory stuff or vintage electronics, I can't help messing with it (messing it up), so I just build my own. I am not a good sales prospect for hi-end gear.

But on the notion of value per typology, if it doesn't mean "count the speakers" what does it mean...especially when "single driver" is one such typology?

Is the Aporia typologically equal to the Lowther Acousta and the Acousta is cheaper, so we should buy the Acousta? How about all the other high dollar Lowther creations? Why buy anything but the Acousta?

Does this notion assume the enclosure is free? That Silbatone horn cost 5 figures in USD a pair to make. It is put together from many pieces into a totally seamless form. Painting cost is in the thousands. 19 coats. Very labor intensive and most of it is picky finishing work. These seems a very different project from a MDF folded backhorn and the quality of the horn construction must contribute heavily to the result.

Or wait, a vintage Jensen P8 found in an old TV set in an enclosure made from old Samsonite luggage. Same typology, even more value.

Is a three way with $300 worth of speakers a more valuable typology than a $500 one way?

The typology label doesn't have enough granularity to capture the individuality of real speakers. I get your basic point, but it is a leaky model and skips a lot of important factors. I think it is silly to argue that any abstract topology is inherently more valuable in a world where most speakers of any genre have huge problems.

So is it a horn or is it a single driver? Do I have to choose? It is what it is. Both/and.

The original post was on the order of "Hey, look at this somewhat new idea."
It is a somewhat new idea, especially with the Manger factor, which is what I came in to talk about.

The original post was also about language and categories, with "Vintage Gear," "Single Driver," "Western Electric" being some of the oversimplified categories in play. I reacted because I have struggled with this problem a lot myself. It is hard to discuss audio without falling into the traps of generalization. As discussed above, I sometimes work these categories when writing brochures and other inspirational material...otherwise how can I communicate my persuasive messages?

I don't think the "Aporia Manger Backhorn" fits into the generalized expecations of single driver in a backhorn developed via Lowthers and such. The Manger is so different that the usual Lowther problems arent there--peaky, tizzy, too much sensitivity (noise with most DHT amps), doesn't play loud.

The main failing of the driver is a slightly dead plastic cone sound, but paper is not ideal either, with problems in the other direction.

The Manger in the Aporia will play loud. It is hard to say how loud because CES is such a noisy zoo that loud doesn't sound loud anymore. Loud becomes the new quiet at CES.

At the point where the amp gave out or the speaker gave out and everything went fuzzy the output was painfully loud. I don't like to do that to my ears anymore. I would not feel volume starved with the Aporia. I did with Lowther Acousta...that speaker had a sweet spot at mid volume and lost it when loud. It was enjoyable though.

Aporia Manger implentation seems to be different enough from other Manger applications, that Manger familiars (there were more than I expected, from all over the world) seemed very impressed with the difference. So, maybe this is not typical "Manger" sound. I really can't say because I'm a noob.

Because of these differences in the design and construction of the Aporia from other single driver/horn systems, I proposed, let's forget about the categories and look at it as a "speaker."

I threw out some adjectives trying to give a flavor of the Manger vs. paper cone piston drivers, but I know this is ultimately useless. More of a hint or a lure than an actual transmission of experience.

This is why I went into academics, because henceforth no buying decisions will depend on my lying lingusitic categories ;op

If by "reduction of complexity" you mean to say that single drivers play small to medium scale music better than they play dense large scale, yes they are like this and so are all other speakers. Even the horn systems I've had really play solo jaw harp better than grand orchestral. I'd offer that the Manger sorts things out better than the Lowther, but that is not the Lowther's strong suit.

The Manger is very controlled and balanced, doesn't get all smeared and fuzzy easily. Bass was tight with a lot of snap but that was probably the horn--more importantly, the rest of the spectrum didn't blur out when heavy bass passages came on. THAT is a fairly common failing of single-drivers. Many can play complicated rhythms with a lot of shakers and finger bells and nail the texture, but when a deep boom comes in the midrange shuts down.

Now ponder this, I would say that the resolution the Aporia was getting at the frequency extremes was as good as if not better than the midrange resolution. That is not typical of the single driver typology as i knew it.

And come on, one obvious feature of the single driver is that the sound comes from the same thing, so there is an inbuilt coherency of character across the frequency range. You can never get that close marriage with 15" woofs and compression drivers. Granted, that if the bass and highs are weak, it doesn't matter if they are "cut from the same cloth." The Aporia did have a unitary character of sound from highs to lows.

The Aporia was its own thing. The Manger is its own thing. If you haven't heard the Aporia or Manger, I expect it is hard to generate a mental image based on my terminology.

The nearest thing I can think of is the old ESL to evoke the liquid texture and the crystal sound, but that horn has more punch than the Quad LF panels and the Manger doesn't have a plastic wrap coloration. The LF horn really loaded the room the way a horn does. It was not a "miniature soundstage between the speakers" presentation. Maybe the sonic picture got bigger as the volume was cranked up...can that be?

I never heard anything quite like the Aporia, which is why it interested me. After one week, I was still trying to deconstruct some of the illusions it presented. In any case, the response sounded nice and flat. Real balanced. I could not identify deadly anomalies that ruined the fun. It could have been too smooth and easygoing sometimes, especially compared with nice punchy compression driver midranges, but the sweetness did not pain me too badly.

Maybe I felt like I wanted more 5-8kc range off of the Manger, possibly because I unconsciously missed the paper cone peaks that 755As and Lowthers inject in the presence range. The front wave of the Manger was brighter without the diffusor, but the speaker worked better with it in place.

I feel like I am repeating myself. I have run out of Aporia Manger description. Hopefully somebody else was at CES and can share some impressions.

Yes, I had a small orgasm. Not a Mirrophonic level 'gasm but a nice one nonetheless.

And, finally, I need to add that I too heard the speaker at CES. This is no way to learn a speaker. I would want to have it at home where I can play some blues guitar favorites, listen to NPR, have a few Guiness, talk on the phone with the APORIA on in the background, and see how it fits into GENUINE LIFE. Standing around in a tie and nametag is a strange and unnatural way to listen. Hopefully, someday I can do more than bizarre formal ritual auditioning of the Aporia unit but I don't see how that is going to happen unless Silbatone gives me a pair.

I can be quite happy with limited range single drivers. I listen for what is there and what is good about it rather than the failures and the handicaps and the stuff that isn't there. Of the ones I've heard that really go for wide range, larger scale performance (usually meaning horn), I'd have to rate the Aporia highly.

Also very curious what the driver could do in a FRONT horn, but that's another typology.

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