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Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

Ming would like to provide this custom basshorn service to his customers in the US market.. Goto Japan has nothing to do with this...

Very cool, the more “hornier” the better as far as I concern.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

Ming Ming is relatively new to this art of horn building... he has heard quite a few Japanese systems.. he has heard many traits that he liked.. afer living with compression driver top end and GOTO 15's in Onkens to cover 300 and down, he really wanted to try horn loading lower... I have built quite a few such horns and some friends connected us...

Yep, the Onken loading will do it.  I heard it is what Germans was listening before they attacked Poland… :-)

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

he has listened to Goto's advice quite a bit.. they have very strong thoughts on how to do things... some you will find humorous, others you will agree with... they beleive that electronics don't really matter..

…and they are absolutely correct.  Electrons do not exist and they were invented by American colleges to change those exuberant amount if money for bogus education.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

…the driver is the primary importance above all others...

Very enthusiastically agree but there are so many “buts” that they mane the statement ridicules..

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

… to them, it is silly to buy expensive electronics if you do not have double drivers on all your horns.. (I do not believe in this, at all) ..

Vladimir Lamm, the chef-designer of Lamm amplifiers told one to one of his customers that he need to buy each few years a new amplifier from Lamm because the older amp have has parts worn. I wonder of Lamm and GOTO come from the same direction…

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

… they also do not believe in time alignment... I have heard the amazing transformation that time alignment brings, both with digital correction and with physical alignment...

Yes, I know about it - they are idiots in this subject and it is very obvious from any single GOTO intention I heard/seen.  I religiously refuse to even to think about horns if they are not meticulously time align. The problem with GOTO is not they are not “just wrong” but the problem is much larger in caliber. Making statements about this “believe they have” they indicate to me that they have no serious experience in any listening assessment and in Sound reproduction. To me it is severely compromise any other statement they make about Audio.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

Goto says the drivers can just go anywhere.. their philosophy is that a low distortion loudspeaker is the most important thing...

I disagree with it. A compressing driver is not a serf-contained stricture and it might be viewed ONLY in context of loading it into a horn.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

double drivers... I am with you on double drivers... I understand that it shortens a horn.. to me, that is usually a bad direction.. length helps with loading.. especially in the lower frequencies...

Especially in the lower frequencies? Congratulations, you understand horns more then 99% of people who do them.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

I also find that double drivers in the mids and up confuse things a bit.. a touch "blurry"... but I must say that I know two people who liked double drivers in the 300 to 1500 range better than single.. do note that both have *large* rooms... also note that Ming'shorn has adequate length at over 8' for a 60Hz flare...

That why I was surprised about the double drivers. The Ming's horns do adequate length and it should not be cheated by the double drivers

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

…so Ming's system... I think he will get "there"... he has several options.. locate the 300 cycle horns in the mouth of the midbass horns... flip the midbass horns sideways to the floor and then position the midhorns above the midbass horns... third, place the midbass horns sideways along the ceiling and use low basshorns below... 300 cycle horns could go into the low bass horn mouth...

Yep, I would hang the midbass above and as you said put an upperbass on a floor to anchor the center image. Something similar to what Jessie is going:

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

so what have we skipped.... the rear chamber and reactance annulling... yes, I know this subject very well... it makes a very audible difference... and deserves our attention... Bell Labs actually published a formula for source impedance with regards to horn impedance.. it was quite enlightening.. they used very high output impedance amps with their horns... and, yes, they had *giant* aluminum diapragmed compression driven bass horns... interesting, no?

I do not use formulas, I do not know them. Here is what I use:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2991

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

hyperbolic is just a slower starting exponential.. it is what goto favors.. you can cross closer to the flare frequency with this expansion.. it loads the driver very well down low... as an example, my goto 150 horn with single SG505 is 50 inches long! this is well over a half wavelength at 150Hz...

The hyperbolic and exponential should give “more bass” but less quality and LF “noise” then … Tratrix-like profiles. I have personally no experience to make this statement but I juts repeat the words of the reputed by me people who have built both profiles with the same rate and compared the results. I still feel that ether hyperbolic or exponential should be more fan then ….direct radiator…

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

cost for such a project varies widely... this one required hiring help as the individual pieces were too large to carry with one person... in standard black finish (actually three coats of stain and paint) it would be about US$15k... this includes delivery and setup in the continental US... moving to even a 70 Hz horn would drop the price significantly... adding veneers would quickly raise the cost...

It is somehow how I expected, are 4 drivers included in the $15K? :-). I have my design of my 55Hz-60Hz horn for years; I have the “prepared” drivers and all ready to go. If I found a good incentive to get a larger place then I would go for it… I estimate that it would cost me ~ $10K unfinished.

Jeffrey Jackson wrote:

I am working on a LONG ceiling mounted straight horn for a Cogent large driver.. still planning stages only, but I cannot wait to hear it...

It might be interesting project post some ideas if you wish, perhaps in another thread.

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