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In the Forum: Horn-Loaded Speakers
In the Thread: Hmmm... the sad truth about BMS..
Post Subject: Re: DIY against Real Sound and Real AudioPosted by stuck.wilson on: 9/17/2006
fair enough- you're absolutely right, i didn't!
it's difficult to get that perspective on sonics without legitimate guideposts-- even with a lifetime of playing and recording music, it's difficult to know what the parameters of recorded sound are without a little help. there are a lot of drivers and implementations out there (any mix of the two could be great OR terrible) and finding folks who've heard and used a few of them definitely helps to get a sense-- but no, you're right, i didn't mention any sonic goals. by and large, though- i'm also trying to see what you've got to say about gear for 'normal folks'.. not to say you're abnormal (well.. maybe)... most audio folks 'round these parks are making low to mid 6 figures. i'm most definitely not-- and there's some inherent economic bias involved in the world catering to such folks- which bugs me, not only as a person working for a living.. but also as a musician, full well knowing i'm VERY privileged to have even the tiny window on decent sound reproduction i have that my more insolvent, very good musician friends can't! this isn't to say that really high quality transformers, drivers, amp topologies, etc are worth less or getting any cheaper.. they're expensive to make- i know.. but my point is, there ARE ways of doing ok with less. dining on the decently prepared, but not gourmet meals, so to speak.
to this point-- my experiences with horns have been with large onkens loaded with altecs (416s or 515s), BMS horns, and western electric drivers. of the two, only one is affordable.. but the westerns and onkens sound very thick, not very light on top, and have amazing texture and meaty mids.. spatially they're odd because they seem to throw a really deep sense of space that i'd LOVE to emulate. the BMS by comparison seems really light and lively-- but synthetically hot up top, and a little flat in the way solid state amps seem sort of flat. not nearly as thick through the middle because the upper mids seem kinda hard- and you can't beat that damn hi frequency lift. i'd just as soon get rid of THAT.. it's too electronic. the larger driver (the 4592- not what i have) seemed a little less exaggerated in that regard, but had more similarities than differences. they were also being played through an audio note m8, which costs more than my house.
but to say, i'd like to split the difference between western electric and BMS is absurd too.. give the space and tonal thickness of a 2" driver with monstrous alnico magnets to the airier lightness of a new 1" production driver (?!)... besides.. the implementation of that western could've just been plain old wrong on that we 555. hard to say- especially without other folks who've been tweaking and listening for years around. besides-- the territory between the two is enormous-- 60 years, and a whole lot of audio history in which lots of good musicmakers were made, and several formats of music reproduction phased in and out. what i CAN tell you, is both share a fantastic ability to startle me with dynamics that i've never had available to me before more than any other speakers at my disposal or plain old live music. i can also tell you that they're both tonally on different continents..
so i guess the reason i didn't talk sound, is that my benchmark for sound is still either LIVE or the junk we listened to as kids, obsessive altec/western collector, the BMS presentation, or the relatively polite constrained and inefficient 'hi-end' box speakers with little drivers that're everyplace, none of which is the REALITY of what can be done by someone seeking a better benchmark with the best stuff i've heard and can afford. i'm honestly not trying to be difficult- but looking to lean on the experience of folks who value REAL dynamics, accurate timbre and harmonics, emotional conveyance, and good live recordings of music outside of studio trickery. in many ways- this blog is a goldmine for good sense in reproduction and ditching the expensive snake oil, but not so much for finding how to make these goals happen, so i asked!
sorry for the long post-- just didn't want to be misunderstood as a ratshack diy'er asking for a more expensive option to look forward to, but more as a person with similar sonic priorities looking for potential options with a tight budget, space constraints, and a very incomplete sense of what IS available in the cloistered and very undocumented world of horn implementation. i'm definitely willing to go this alone, and have been-- i voiced my system by listening, not by prescription or purchased crossover or behringer digital crossover. audio asylum hasn't proved especially useful, as the egos involved destroy any usability-- it's not really an open forum, but is a lot more like a high school cafeteria: popular kids here, nerds there. i know just enough to appreciate what compression drivers do.. but i just don't have the access to the best of the lot and figured i'd throw it out there to folks who've been on the search for a while!
yrs
dan
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