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In the Forum: Melquiades Amplifier
In the Thread: Planning my DSET
Post Subject: Many thanksPosted by anthony on: 12/22/2015
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 Romy the Cat wrote:

Output transformer. Here is what the thing become complicated. Of you drive ultra-low impedance with step down transformer then your secondary turns will decrease. They primary will have whatever they have for all case but secondary will go lover and lower as load impedance drop and might even become foil-made. That is for sure will make the transformer faster and better for transients BUT your need LF DSET transformer it means you need inductance. As you will be losing your turn on secondary you will be losing inductance and the only way to get it back would be to increase the core size.  You need to put your transformer maker on the task and see if you will be able to obtain a transformer core for half amper gap, no secondary turns and 5Hz at full power. That will be a small refrigerator size piece of iron and it might be very expensive. 

I can't see the transformer being small under any circumstances.  My transformer winder is very smart and level headed so I think that I have a good chance of getting a good result with the OPT if I can tell him what to build.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
   Cables. Driving 1R you will be driving current. Driving 64R you will be driving voltage. Some of the cables/connectors behave differently under voltage vs current conditions. Also if you drive 1R with low voltage then you might pick some on like interferences. 

I had not even though about cables, but of course you are right.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
 
Drivers. If you go with 8 x 25W/8565-00 then make sure that your make the right boxes and over dump them. I would use 4 individual boxes by 2 drivers each. I do not think that drivers would care how they are connected. The difference would be in case of driver mismatch. In real world all drivers will be slightly different. You are not a large speaker builder and you won’t be able to pick among 100s driver the best matching drivers. So, if one driver has Fs 20Hz and another 24Hz then the question is: would it be betters for them to be connected in parallel or not. I do not know the answer and I am not informed enough to make a guess. You need to consult with somebody else, BTW, if you do them post a received answer. 

I am a little worried about driver mismatch.  The first thing for me to do in this regard is to run them in on signal for a while and then measure their parameters, matching them driver by driver into groups.  I know just the person to talk to about driver matching so I will give him a call after Christmas to pick his brain.
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Usability. That is bitch. First thing first: how do you know how much your tube need to be loaded? Pretend that it is 6C33C and pretend that you need to load it with 600R to get a balance MF sound. Idle tube more you dive you less harmonics, faster sound, in a way over-burned transients. Loading the tube more five you “slower”, more euphonic sound and more power. That would be true for MF but at LF you will have much less negative impact of tube idling and you might find VERY beneficial to load your 6C33C with 1 kR or 1.2kR. That are not exact number but I just give you an idea. Also, the differences at 1R load are huge. Each change of 0.1R loading will give you a large difference in sound. You will need to hit very prissily and you as you start will not know where to aim. I can only presume that you will be in the realm of 1200-1500R, or perhaps higher but with “odd” transformer and a few other variable it is very hard to predict anything. Do not also forget that with limited wiring on the secondary you will have very limited opportunity to have multiple taps on your transformer as the filling of the barbing will be suffering. 

Yes, the tube loading is something that I need to play with in order to more fully understand its effects.  To be honest this is the part that worries me most.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
 
Usability continue. There are more ugly things: as you ideal more your bass tube and get better sound (to a degree) you will be losing power. Even with 8 drivers and let say a single 6C33C you will need a sealed room of let say no more than ~300sq feet or you will be driving your 6C33C into A2, which is a clipping for this tube.  If you have a normal listing room of 600+ with open floor plan then you are way out of your DSET capacity with 6C33C unless you super load the tube and then you have shity sound. Even if you did resolve your problem with power somehow then the ugly truth that it will take time for you to understand what type of bass you need. My estimation that it would be good to stay with properly doe bass for 2-3 months in order to “get” where/how to move next with bass. 

The room is 280sq feet and sealed.  It has a raked ceiling but to offset that there is also a degree of soundproofing which reflects energy back into the room.  I had considered to use a SS amplifier for the bass as a benchmarking tool...I think that I would be foolish not to.
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 
So, from all that I said above if I were in your position I would not go final DSET solution with bass now but rather did it incrementally.  Make your bass sections, connected them conventionally, let say 16R each and drive them with some kind of SS amp. Then take the SET that you would like to use as DSET and drive it into the bass channel. Play with loading, find the best configuration and make a judgment about sufficiency of power. Then go for a DSET that would be against a conventional load. 4x16R in parallel = 4R. That would be a conventional load and you can use many different amps to try, including your SET, If you test everything with your SET, find a proper loading and get conformation about power then you can converts the found transformer ratio to any another load.
That is basically what I did over the time and this is what I would do if I do it again. Do not forget that your situation might be very different from what mine was in my old city home. Your bass channel will be running under 100Hz and your room dissipation at 100Hz might be very different then at 40hz, so you might need much more power than you might think. It is nice to learn about it experimenting with SET then to pay a lot of money for DSET OPT and then learns that you have not enough DC gap to add another tube in parallel or that you need to lose another 10% turns on secondary and the cost of shipping of the transformers will cost more than a pair of new one.

This is a much more balanced approach than I was considering.  Yes, I should build the bass arrays first and test them in my room with SS to be sure that a SET can power them in that situation.  That has to be step number one.  Then, if warranted, experiment to sort out the DSET OPT specs.  Luckily, my transformer guy in Australia has finally agreed to build this OPT, so freight will be inconsequential compared to the international transit that I was facing a while ago.

Thanks Romy for your thoughtful and and considered input here.  It is very much appreciated.

Regards,

Anthony

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