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In the Forum: Musical Discussions
In the Thread: Thinking about Bruckner harmonies.
Post Subject: Sound vs. meaning?Posted by Romy the Cat on: 2/15/2012
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 steverino wrote:
We are talking about subjective reactions so there is no way to dispute either of our responses.

Of cause we do talk about subjective reactions. I do not see that we “dispute” reactions but we rather exchange reactions. This is the only valuable thing to do in my view, particularly when we are talking about music
 
 steverino wrote:
However, I do see a disconnect between your statements that I quoted and your subsequent post. In the first post you were talking about the Queen of Spades opera and mentioning a scene with the death of the Countess. You stated:

"So, did Herman kill the Countess? Listen, or even better THINK about Sound of first movement of the Bruckner 9th Symphony as an answer. Bruckner harmonies, being properly played has all necessary answers.  If they do not provide answers then they eliminate a need for questions "…

But then you stated:

"I do not find anything in Bruckner to be scare and I do not feel any frightening in Bruckner 9th Symphony. The first movement of the Bruckner 9th is in a way playful not scary; "

It's hard to reconcile these two statements.

Steverino, I am sorry but I see absolutely no conflict in what you quoted. The question of Countess death and Herman’s responsibility for it is purely ethical. There is nothing scary or frightening in the inquiry. You might fell that Death is scary. Leaving aside my feeling about Death I would like to point out that Countess death is just a ploy to bring larger ethical perspective:  the Herman’s agreement to engage the devil’s help to win the girl. 

 steverino wrote:
Severaf other issues may be going on as well. First, I listen to Bruckner's symphomies once or twice a year. You seem to listen monthly or maybe even weekly to it. Second, I was referring to its effect in the concert hall. It doesn't affect me quite to that degree on the stereo for obvious reasons. The blackness I was referring to was the sound of the harmonies. Bruckner wrote out very full, harmonically rich and bass heavy chords in the first movement. Third, as you say you are Russian.

Finally I don't think other Bruckner is scary. I agrre that some of it is quite playful such as Sympnies 1 5 and 6. The 7th seems more serene than playful.

Well, perhaps we go a bit confused between darkness of sound and darkness of musical meaning. When you referred to “scary” and “dark” I took it literally: scary is scary. As I said OI do not feel anything “scary” and “dark” in 9 Symphony. The gloomiest music Bruckner wrote was the opening tune for adagio 7th. Unfortunately they do not play it properly and to get the full density of it you need to go with Matacic 1967 and VERY annoying playback. It is very gloomy, very dark and very disheartening but it is not scare in any way to me. It is super beautiful. Beauty might not be only in shape of cat body or smell fresh roses. Beauty might be in shape of nuclear explosion cloud or in loneliness of desert landscape. I think one of the magnificent thing about Bruckner that he was not able to write scare music. Stravinsky could, Bruckner could not… But again, what does make you to scare: the sound that orchestra produces of the meaning and Bruckner’s expressions?

The Cat

PS: I listen Bruckner approximately 5-6 times per week.

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