GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site

In the Forum: Horn-Loaded Speakers
In the Thread: Macondo Frame modification.

Post Subject: Again at variance with you. But 'variable' it will not be I hope.Posted by oxric on: 9/17/2011

Romy the Cat wrote:

Hm, the Injection channel via Lecleach? The MF via Lecleach? I wonder why people then are complaining about the vertical limitations. Anyhow, closer to the point.

My mistake. I should not use the term Lecleach on this site. In any case, I wanted to say Fundamental Channel and not Injection channel. And yes I'm perfectly aware of the vertical problems of having Lecleach profiles with a multi-way system and none of the horns I have ordered are LeCleach - they are all tractrix. I did some comparisons with the S2 in a Lecleach horn whilst a friend was here a few months ago. It was not a'kosher' comparison' but I personally preferred the LeCleach even though admittedly the horns from someone in Australia were not how I would have built them. It would be fair to say that my friend who likes the LeCleach felt the 400Hz tractrix combined better with his Fane in a Stereolab 140Hz upperbass horn. But all of this is really not pertinent to the subject of my post really as I doubt I will be able to accomodate Lecleach profiles and would only like to do these comparisons much later on for the sake of my own education.

So let's see if your advice makes any rational sense to me in my given set of circumstances.

Romy the Cat wrote:

If I were you then I would not do what you are doing now – I mean to design frame. I know it sounds odd – I am advocating thinking about frame but at the same time I am persuading do not make frame. Ironically there is no conflict in it and if to look deeper then I see a lot of rational in my position.
What kind frame a person can come up with if he does not know what configuration of playback he will end up with? Yes, you can make the very flexible frame that can accommodate many setting buy why do you need a flexible frame if in the end the frame will care only one final configuration? The specific and non- flexible frame will be better anyhow, I hope we all agree with it…

There are only two points that you make here. Since I don't know what configuration I will end up with, I should not worry and waste my energies designing and building a frame for now. I do not agree. The frame is as you say part and parcel of the final system and given that it is multi-way, one needs to at least be able to set up and position three channels relative to each other in the vertical and horizontal plane. Your method of simply fixing the MF atop the upperbass horn which is what I would have to do would make it close to impossible for me to change the spacing between these two channels other than in a very rough and ready fashion. A flexible frame even if I should eventually replace it with a better fixed one (I do not see any compelling reason why I should do this even if my 'flexible' frame is not the optimum solution) is better than no frame at all.

What clinches this argument for me is that I need to find the correct location for these horns in a fairly large room (it is 6mx7m albeit with ceiling height of 2.35m and with a beam going across). I can try to locate the horns across four walls.There is no way that I will be able to easily try these different solutions without an easy means of moving these bulky/heavy horns. What better way than having a frame on wheels?

Romy the Cat wrote:

Also, it is about a lifestyle. I do not know in what British castle you live but my experience with all folks who go for large multi-sell, including my own, indicate that soon of later they all move to larger listening rooms. I think it is some kind of virus….

The castle where I live in in the UK does not have a suitable room which could accomodate a multi-way horn system (the largest room here is a dainty 3mx6m). Le Horn is a multi-way system that is intended for my house in France in Ribeauville, where my family moved to as planned two months ago. The house in France has a gorgeous room which is 6mx7m and even with the limitation of relatively low ceilings, it's the best room I have ever had and I only have to close my eyes to hear how good Le Horn will sound here. I agree that in a couple of years' time I will be hopefully moving to an even better room but life is too short to be always waiting for the next house move...

Romy the Cat wrote:

So, I would advise to not be in hurry. Build the bone – the MF and Upperbass. Do not do any tweeters or and any ridicules Injection channel. Put your MF and Upperbass “on the books”, ad some LF and play them as is for a few months. Set the crossovers, find an amp that you like, discover Bruckner, get married and bring your company to public offering.

At the very beginning of this project, I decided I would take my time over this and start with the Upperbass and MF channels (it made sense to get all these horns as the price was risibly low for 4 pairs of tractrix horns custom made for my drivers, the Lecleach 322Hz by Marco Henri of 'La Grande Castine' was a complete fluke picked up for close to nothing in Belgium), see some specs and measurements below

LxJ0sUFZgQJ:cyrille.pinton.free.fr/electroac/experiences/pavillons-2445j/pavillons_2445j.html+Musique+Concrete+J322&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk" href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache Tongue Tied

LxJ0sUFZgQJ:cyrille.pinton.free.fr/electroac/experiences/pavillons-2445j/pavillons_2445j.html+Musique+Concrete+J322&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk

As I said above, I meant Fundamental Channel when I wrote Injection Channel. This is not the time or place to talk about the Injection Channel but it is for me an anomaly to need such a channel, and although I have the Tannoy 10" reds lying in wait, I have little motivation to even try these and if I do this will not be before a couple of years. I am working on the Bruckner and although I started listening to the complex works by Beethoven from a very early age (I mean around 15!), Anton Bruckner I find a little hard to enjoy...

Adding some LF, yes I am working on this (intellectually). Setting crossovers, finding an amp, tick, tick. Getting married? Did that a long time ago to a most gorgeous woman and it was the very best thing I ever did for sure...

Romy the Cat wrote:

Rakesh, I know that internet audio people are looking for specific recommendations formed in inchers, decibels and brands. I assure you that audio is not only about technologies but also about self-discovery of moments of realization. From what I know about audio the upperbass channel and MF channel that you looks like will built will be phenomenal music exploration devises, good enough to last most likely to the rest of your life. The rest that audio that you plan I think will be variable. I do understand that you have a tendency to get all together right the way. You most likely not a teenager, so tell me how much “all together right the way” have worked in other aspect of your life?

I do not care very much for specific recommendations and there is very little advice coming from anyone that I tend to follow. My question was a fairly generic one regarding the location of especially the Upperbass and MF channels with respect to each other. I mentioned this question here as someone may have had a thought or two based on personal experience which might have been a good starting point for locating the supporting rods in the main mast. I fully intend to work it out for myself so maybe the question was redundant anyway.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I assure you that audio is not only about technologies but also about self-discovery of moments of realization.

Agreed. I would like to add that these moments of self-realisation do not happen randomly. You have first of all to make the right choices to give these moments a more than likely chance of actually occurring in the first place.

Romy the Cat wrote:

From what I know about audio the upperbass channel and MF channel that you looks like will built will be phenomenal music exploration devises, good enough to last most likely to the rest of your life.

This is good news indeed.

Romy the Cat wrote:

The rest that audio that you plan I think will be variable. I do understand that you have a tendency to get all together right the way. You most likely not a teenager, so tell me how much “all together right the way” have worked in other aspect of your life?

Rgs, Romy the Cat

I do not know Romy. I do not know where I will go after living with the Upperbass/MF/LF solution for a year or longer. Maybe just add a tweeter and enjoy my music collection or go to more concerts with my family as the children grow up. That could just be good enough for me. Whatever it is, and I do not think I know any more than I do, it will not be just 'variable' I hope.

Best regards
Rakesh

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