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I find that one of the most interning and stimulating ideas that you expressed was your experience with your bass horn

Reinhard wrote:

Midbass horns: are there are two 20 cycle bass horns which normally have 6,50 m in length and 3,20 in mouth diametre (we had that for testing purposes and we thought, well, that's it, the space is there and the depth to be able to listen to, but to our surprise it was not !  they didn't perform that well, astonishingly neither with natural nor electronical time alignment), so Klaus cut them down to 4 m to get rid of the time delay. They are not - as one might presume only from the mouth diametre - 40 or 50 cycle horns, they are true 20 cycle, but cut off.

You are saying that gong fro ¼ size horn without even loading it to boundaries gave some advantage. This is very interesting. Going from ½ horn size to ¼ horn size you reduced the throat reactance, did you play with back chamber and driver resonance or you just cut the horn until it make the Goto driver to sound better?

Reinhard wrote:

… But the discussion seems always very isolated and concentrated on only one type of horn at the time without any possibilities of listening comparison in reality, and hardly anybody seems to really concentrate and nail it down on the last two octaves from 16 - 32 and 32 - 64 cycles which very severely determine the mid and high range reproduction

Who could believe!
 

Reinhard wrote:

And since then we have built and listened to all the other types of bass horns because we just wanted to know for ourselves. And because at the time we did not know anybody with practical listening experiences regarding this specific theme we did it all by ourselves.

Really cool, here is where I truly envy.
 

Reinhard wrote:

So we now have all Class A, 10 Amps, one for each driver, two 4 resp. 5 channel crossovers, and one pre-amp. And during the last years we have all amplification extended to separate controlled power supply for each unit. That was a huge step forward. It made the whole sound not only crystal clear but really stable down to the lowest frequencies, and the boom-boom was completely gone.

Welcome to the DSET world. BTW, you need to get rid of your 5 channel crossovers and imbed the filter into your 10 amps.
 

Reinhard wrote:

Crossover: Yes, we neither were content with available crossovers with phase shifting and so on... So we let build crossovers without phase shifting, because we wanted to have that and because we realized that the industry does have no interest in generating products like this... and the frequencies are cut according to the Goto recommendations: natural octaves, and I have to admit: that works for me.

Well, I do not believe in crossovers “without phase shifting”. What might be interesting it to understand the “the Goto recommendations of natural octaves”. I do not know what it is.
 

Reinhard wrote:

SG146LD is the only compression bass driver which does not produce boom-boom if fed right.

Hmmmm, I do not understand it. The boom-boom is NOT the properly of driver but the properly of the drivers performance. You can make ANY driver to do boom-boom and you can make any driver do not have the boom-boom…

Reinhard wrote:

The SG146LD contrarily is on first impression not to be heard as bass, first you think, hey it is wrong, it is not connected, but then you realize, what they are doing, they integrate completely homogeneously into the sound, totally natural, like a royal soufflé, no more "cuts" between bass and mid-range (especially in the voices), just "one" sound. Marvellous. Really marvelous. And they make the right pressure. 113 db/watt/m... and you can put some 35 watts in there... and you get volume like on stage... and nothing disturbing...

Never heard this driver, not mention properly used. Perhaps my US Goto rep would send me one for Xmas to try after I move into a new place…
 

Reinhard wrote:

Perhaps one has to get used to that sound a little at first, because it is so "unspectacular" without boom-boom, but then there is no way back... nearly exactly the same is with their membrane basses...But, please keep in mind, we are exploring new territory ... nobody was able to advise us so far... and we are still learning... deeply learning...the adjustment of all those horns is not yet finished... and now comes the next big revolution: high resolution digital stream...

Yes, it  is difficult to get advisement as audio people are not accustomed to properly reproduced bass and the run bass 3-4 dB more then it shell be. I was there….

Reinhard wrote:

let me try.   1. As is with all drivers and horns: they only sound as good as with what they are fed; if the amplification is good, i.e. squares, the sound is good; if the amplification is weak or bad, the sound is like that (and that begins within the vinyl-system and the error correction in CD-players; so, wherever we start, we start "bad", exception: reproduction from computer files). The horns in itself are "neutral", but it is obviously very hard to reach that aim...   2. The drivers of Goto. Well it is like cars from Daimler Benz Mercedes. You have a range from A 180 to 560 SLC and on top formula 1 racing cars. They all drive fine. And there are lots of cars from other societies, which are comparable and which drive fine as well. But at the absolute top it is getting otherwordly unique... with the material beryllium... (but that material is not easy to implement; although not bad, the TADs beryllium have no chance in direct comparion to Goto beryllium!) the sound gets that light, that easy, that uncomplicated, that natural, it is on the border of no more being sound, the differences between an original and reproduction are really neglectable, nothing disturbing, you can listen for hours and hours and hours, and you scream for "More, More, More..."   3. The Gotos could not at all "open" as we are used to and show what they are capable of. The sound was steril. Like kissing your aunt and nothing happens. Get me right: there were no mistakes, not at all, one can easily live with that, it is just that we did not like the outcoming sound, the sterilness, the lifelessness, there was no "breathing"...   4. So what are the Gotos capable of?     4.1. Although they measure badly, they sound best. We do not understand why, but it is like that. But when you listen to their sound, you are not really interested in measurements, although we do that of course: Goto says: "You shall not measure, you shall listen!" I have to admit: Yes, it is like that. Although I like measurement controls. They are necessary, but I had to learn, that they practically say nothing about the "sound", as to be seen with the totally flat curves at Jean-Yves.     4.2. Their sound pressure brings you to life atmosphere, exactly there where other drivers are off limits, not that they are not able to play loud, but you are not willing to crank them up to that level because there will come up things you will not listen to and which with Gotos simply are not there...     4.3. The neutrality of the reproduction - well I repeat: if amplified correct - is jaw dropping, awesome     4.4. The mode of reproduction is not only natural, it is easy as well; when you reach a natural reproduction level, i.e. a voice is like a voice, a guitar like a guitar, you feel no need to crank futher up because of the lack of dynamics...     4.5. The preciseness of reproduction (well, again depending on the squares of the amplification)     4.6. The "easiness" with which they do it: 113 db/Watt/m, respectively 116db/Watt/m, it is like riding 60 miles/hour and you don't realize that you are driving     4.7. The dynamics, the capability of transferring loudest impulses out of nothing and that easy - makes you shiver     4.8. Closest to reality what I have heard in my life     4.9. You will realize most what Goto really is, when you remove the drivers one by one out of your system and put in others...     4.10. for me the best description of the impression of the sound is: the modesty, the unspectacularness, you are missing things, exactly those things that other drivers do wrong and/or are not capable of...   For Klaus and me it is "it". Not to say that other systems do not sound good or very good. But there are certain things only Goto is capable of. One has to hear this to believe. And the result is: nodding with your head. That's the sound of Goto. You will never go back…

Reinhard, thanks a lot. I wish my local US rep open his mouth and spread some Goto propaganda not you. No one talks about Goto sound unfortunately. I heard two Goto systems (MF drivers), generally like what I heard but they were not up seriously setup, so I did not expect too much from them. I do not know Goto sound but from what I hear myself, from what you guys Goto user express and from my own experiment with high magnetic forces drivers I might not feel that I might not necessary will be thrilled what Goto would do. I think to make any further comment somebody like you and somebody like me need to hear the sound of others and to understand what we are trying to make with sound. The reason why I have concerns about Goto sound is that I kind of looking for slightly different properly in sound then what you describe.  If you hear my sound then you would understand it. How I would characterize my sound, or at least how I would like it to be? I would call it as “Strategically-Bacteriological Bound”. I would like sound to be infested by an army of flash-eating parasites their “distraction” shall be very-well quantified by my will and by intend.  I am a bit afraid that Goto might be a bit too neutral for me. I do not mean coloration, I mean the Bacteriological control.  My Vitavox is neutral and colorful but it is not enough for me. My sound is a combination of a few very fine palettes. And I do not think that at this point my sound is a derivative from a performance of a single driver – the “art” of my sound is in proper balance of a few ingredients of the big salt. So, even if you stop by at place and bring your MF Goto driver then I have a very high probably that I would find it too clean and would add to it something from my “bacteriological” menu. I think it might be mutually educational….

The problem is that with those freaking horns to put a single MF driver in system, to understand it, to make it to work properly is a month of work….

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