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In the Forum: Musical Discussions
In the Thread: Johannes Brahms - Symphony No.4, Carlos Kleiber, Wiener Philharmoniker

Post Subject: Not all of Brahms is 'lost in Nowhere-Land'...Posted by Axel on: 10/21/2009

for me, in answer to your first question.

His violin-concerto, I have with Rainer, and various piano concertos do not give this notion of going nowhere. It is the 1st movement of the 4th symphony with C. Kleiber (I can’t listen past it, I get so affected = pissed-off) same with the 1st symphony with Karajan and the Berliners.

There seems a quality of absent mindedness, a lacking integration of the various themes. When listening to Beethoven doing such, e.g. 4th piano concerto is SO genius by comparison, that Brahms feels to me just lost in what he was doing. The 1st of Brahms' symphonies strikes me as contrived, unauthentic, put-on, and cobbled together.

I say FEELS and that's why I asked the OP question. It's interesting reading through your posted link, in that I'm apparently not on my own with these notions on Brahms’ symphonic music.

Another example comes to mind is: Ernest Hemingway and his writings. To me he is a skill-less dabbler (German = Stümper), but to others -- some elevated free-spirited writer re-defining prose!? Let me leave it at that, lest some Hemingway fan is going to feel really offended.

So Brahms and Hemingway have something in common, in that they split the ideas as to whether they were self promoting impostors (mostly), or some of the greatest artists of their time.

Go figure
Axel

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