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In the Forum: Musical Discussions
In the Thread: Aimez-vous Bartók?
Post Subject: "Greatness" and modern composers...Posted by Axel on: 8/11/2009
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Firstly, no form of criticism was implied, why at all?
Bartók just seems to give you some form of 'empty notion' perhaps, as does Brahms with me. I discussed this subject earlier today with my audio friend who would share your take on Bartók but doesn't seem to get into Brahms either. He happens to be a trained pianist amongst some other more technical achievements.

Wilhelm Furtwängler would have said what you mention as he was well known to be a VERY structured and CLASSICAL oriented conductor only. He happened to share this opinion / mind-set with some other conductors of his period, for instance Bruno Walter who had to go pretty much out of his way to play his 'friends' music at all, - Gustav Mahler's - . Walter also had a disregard, call it contempt, for the Late Romantics and ~ Moderns.

It actually means NOTHING at all, and only is once again an expression of a personal preference or disinclination. Some critics also noted that HvK was not getting it right with anything much before Beethoven, couldn't do much with what followed him, - the Romantics, e.g. Schumann, Schubert, etc., then once again be more 'connected' to the Late Romantics, Debussy, Ravel, etc.
Listening to some Baroque music by HvK seems to support this :-( 
I could carry on but it's just to put Furtwängler's notions into context.

"Greatness" is on the one hand what other experts decide for us, but it is also a very personal assessment and it is this that I was referring to. If Brahms is one of THE great composers I have no issue of course, as little as I guess that you would have issue with Bartók. But it means little personally if you can not perceive this for your own self. (No good for a personal 'greatness transparency' check I'd say...)

Now I feel / perceive that Bartók’ s music is working on a VERY much more subliminal level then the typical Classical more structured composers. Bartók can stir emotional reactions, that can take one back to pictures and related feeling way back into childhood and then to other places during ones life also. If music 'connects' it can evoke such 'lost' feelings and notions, somehow re-connecting them into the present -- they are actually not lost, just temporarily forgotten.

So it may be that Brahms and others are doing it to one person, and yet other composers and their music to someone else. The "greatness" can of course only be appreciated or perceived if the music can reach you emotionally in the first place. If it does not, one can then resort to some sort of intellectual mind-game, like trying to 'explain' or rationalize the meaning of a great painting that actually means nothing to one on an emotional level.
Axel

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