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Posted on: 8-19-09

Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts: 9674



Thread: The absolutely “best” material for horns construction.
           Reply: 50 degrees of separation…  
fiogf49gjkf0d

 JLH wrote:
I do not believe you fully understand what Danley is doing with the Synergy horn.

Nope, I do not. Well, I understand it but I am not willing to acknowledge that I understand it as the Synergy horn idea looks too freakish to me. You do not see me arguing the Synergy idea I just feel no interest. I might feel an interest in the Danley’s creatively but to me the even to look at the Synergy horn is scare.

 JLH wrote:
  Real world example of the flare rates inside of Danley SH-50: the SH-50 is a 50 degree conical horn. The mids tap into the horn at around 2.78 inches. The distance from the compression driver’s diaphragm to the mid tap point totals 3.66 inches. The area of expansion is from 0.24 square inches to 11.29 square inches. This equates to a flare rate of 1132Hz loading the compression driver. The electrical crossover is around 1200Hz, so the compression driver is operating within a very ideal way. Since the wavelengths within the compression driver’s range are acoustical small in relation to the rest of the horn, it’s sound is not harmed by the rest of the horn. The same is true for the mids and lows. I have ran through the math it all adds up.

Are you sure that the same is for the mids and lows?  Do not take to account the fact that within the 5.56 inches the mids work as a re-entry path.  Also, I do not know how you can talk about math. Any geometry implies distance and distance implies two measuring points. In case of horn if we do not consider the re-entry paths then we have only two absolute points of distance: throat and mouth. We have a curve between them but it is not important. So, I we have a driver sitting on axes then we have a relation between the distances as the driver axes is the same as the horn axes and the driver’s exit points are equidistant to the mouth’s distances. How we have a driver that sits in the mid of the horn, with an angle of 50 degree to the horn axis.  The driver has own dimensions, let say 4” diameters of cone. So, what the hell would be “geometry” in case of this application. We have 4” smudge that describes the arrival time from the driver to the edge of the horn, then we have the re-entry reflections that smear the “distances” and “geometry” even more. I do admit that I might not understand something but I just too afraid to look in the theory of the Synergy deeper as I begin to ask myself questions that I have no answers. For instance you say that “electrical crossover is around 1200Hz, so the compression driver is operating within a very ideal way”. Ok, is it a crossover of 64dB per octave? If not then will the Synergy idea to choke with innermodulations?

 JLH wrote:
  However, Danley’s careful choices have resulted in a very well designed, measured, and sounding horn. I cannot argue with what my ears heard. In the end I did not believe that it is worth arguing about a horn just because its design features do not mesh well with our preconceived notions. We should just let things be the way they are and take them for what they are. I find the Synergy very intriguing. It does a lot of things very well. Would I use it in my own audio? Probably not because it is too clean and hi-fi sounding for my taste. I like my horn colorations too well. Should DIY people try to make their own Synergy? No-it is too complicated and cost too much.

Well, if what you say is true, even if I do not understand it, then perhaps there is no need to argue with Synergy idea but rather to heir Danley to built a set of Synergy system that would have more advanced demands then PA systems, dunk rock-n-roll punks and QSC Audio amplification.  If Dan Danley feel that his Synergy is potent to do good sound then it would be interested if he come up with home-targeted products, with “expensive” drivers and upscale demand for sound. It might be not his cap of tea (and I would not blame him) but since the proof is in a pudding it is very unlikely that a listening session in Guitar Center would pick my interest. Do you know if he does custom work? It is not something that I am interested but someone might find it worth to investigate….

The Cat
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
 Posted Date All replies in the thread
  2-23-08   The absolutely “best” material for horns construction.   (2-23-08)..Romy the Cat
  2-24-08   Not new   (2-24-08)..el`Ol
  2-24-08   A well researched material   (2-24-08)..Paul S
  2-24-08   Sandcast horns   (2-24-08)..mark
  2-24-08   What about light metals?   (2-24-08)..Antonio J.
  2-24-08   Very liberating…. It is the way how it should be.   (2-24-08)..Romy the Cat
  3-7-08   Pottery horns   (3-7-08)..decoud
  3-8-08   Back to the stone age   (3-8-08)..el`Ol
  4-10-08   Horn material   (4-10-08)..loach71
  6-23-09   Re: sand horns   (6-23-09)..teodor_gugulanov
  6-26-09   Not that easy   (6-26-09)..JLH
  6-26-09   Ain't no shortcut   (6-26-09)..jessie.dazzle
  6-27-09   Very surprising comment.   (6-27-09)..Romy the Cat
  6-27-09   Modular horns   (6-27-09)..decoud
  6-27-09   One piece at a time   (6-27-09)..jessie.dazzle
  6-27-09   Scalability   (6-27-09)..decoud
  6-27-09   Molds are not scalable for different flare rates.   (6-27-09)..JLH
  6-28-09   If it where up to me…   (6-28-09)..Romy the Cat
  6-28-09   Something like this?   (6-28-09)..Dominik
  7-1-09   Coiled horn   (7-1-09)..decoud
  8-2-09   Discussion on diyaudio   (8-2-09)..el`Ol
  8-7-09   The double-layering horn speakers.   (8-7-09)..Romy the Cat
  8-16-09   Variable profile horn system   (8-16-09)..decoud
  8-16-09   Just a variation of the unity horn   (8-16-09)..JLH
  8-16-09   Not summation but continuity   (8-16-09)..decoud
  8-16-09   It will not work   (8-16-09)..JLH
  8-17-09   PDF link to Unity horn patent   (8-17-09)..JLH
  8-18-09   Unity horn design   (8-18-09)..decoud
  8-19-09   Low power SET is not a problem.   (8-19-09)..JLH
  8-19-09   The Synergy design… and antiskating   (8-19-09)..Romy the Cat
  8-19-09   I'm not trying to promote the Synergy   (8-19-09)..JLH
  8-19-09   50 degrees of separation…   (8-19-09)..Romy the Cat
  8-19-09   Not as bad as you think   (8-19-09)..JLH
  12-14-09   The Synergy patent link is broken   (12-14-09)..JLH
  5-9-18   Two products.   (5-9-18)..xandcg
  5-14-18   Sure a great material, so what?   (5-14-18)..Romy the Cat
  5-14-18   Finishing.   (5-14-18)..xandcg
  9-13-19   Steel/Aluminum or polymer concrete?   (9-13-19)..xandcg
  9-24-19   Aluminum thermal expansion.   (9-24-19)..xandcg

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