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  »  New  Suggested target curves and setup techniques for Pro Au..  Contacting Thorsten...  Didital Things  Forum     9  90120  03-23-2005
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  »  New  Monitors: Wishful thinking..  Digital crossover...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  76365  07-23-2006
  »  New  Cool running AB amplifier.. with good sound...  How about more current integrateds?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     11  77103  07-25-2006
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  334543  12-22-2006
  »  New  The inflatable speakers dumping and no only...  Labyrinth?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  49342  05-30-2007
  »  New  The foolishness of multiple playback systems...  The foolishness of multiple playback systems....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  11136  04-09-2008
  »  New  Help to identify the LF driver...  Shell I install some kind of finding award? I might…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  19440  09-06-2008
  »  New  The low-power SET and dead speakers..  Expiring Cygnets (Back to Bass-ics)...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  22248  01-18-2009
  »  New  Off-the-wall playback or the 'hamster solution'...  Spacial information...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  35472  02-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo listening experience..  Actually I disagree with your assessment....  Playback Listening  Forum     4  37379  06-16-2009
  »  New  Yamaha B-2 V-FET amplifier...  I do like my B-2...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  133913  07-20-2009
05-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 161
Post ID: 10508
Reply to: 10506
I know exactly what you mean
fiogf49gjkf0d

I wrote about it before and I was/am afraid this effect too. I discovered it a few years back when suddenly my bass picked some odd harmonics. After a few days I realized that the harmonics came from an acoustic guitar that was sitting in my listening room at that time.

I have to note that since the MiniMe went up the Macondo went down (Macondo cannot run without Milq amps). So, sine I put the Macondo LF section in I was not too critical to impact it has too critical observing the Macondo’s bass. I was censers that main me do not screw up Macondo’s imagine but I do not look into bass yet. Thanks for reminding and the attention – I will look into it.

There is another “reason why I do not care too much about the Macondo’s sound now, until the new DH Milq’s is finished. It is “deeper” reason but you will understand it. With new Macondo’s MF channel that will be outputting more “transiential” sound the center of Macondo’s output in vertical plane will be shitting a bit lower. This is one of my objectives as the “vertical center” is too much offset now by my Injection Channel. This will lead to me to drive the Injection Channel differently and I would need to review how the Injection Channel’s bass in new configuration will be taking with my Macondo’s bass. So, it will be some revision in the end and whan I will be there THEN I will be looking at the constitution of the Mini bass.

I have to note that it would be no difficult to do – juts plug the MiniMe’s ports and to see how the sound will be changed.  BTW, it will be funny if I learn that I like the Macondo’s bass better with the “help” of the MiniMe’s ports. The 95Hz is VERY special region for Macondo as the Macondo’s upperbass horn and the Macondo’s bass sections both are dying in there….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lbjefferies7
Southern California
Posts 49
Joined on 01-11-2008

Post #: 162
Post ID: 10511
Reply to: 10508
Macondo's Trim Tab
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

BTW, it will be funny if I learn that I like the Macondo’s bass better with the “help” of the MiniMe’s ports. The 95Hz is VERY special region for Macondo as the Macondo’s upperbass horn and the Macondo’s bass sections both are dying in there….

The Cat


I will be laughing my ass off when I visit the GoodSoundClub website and read about a certain Cat who was finally motivated into tuning the ports on the Mini's specifically to "adjust" Macondo's sound!  I am reminded of Buckminster Fuller's chosen nickname "trimtab"...the tiny rudder on the rudder of the Queen Mary, for instance.  The trimtab creates a low presure that swings the huge rudder that steers the entire ship.  Could Mini's port be Macondo's trimtab?  I love the analogy even if it is BS.

With all of the issues with intigrating an 8 foot array of 6 (and then 7) channels, it is no wonder that the many audiophiles indulge in delusions and confuse them with solutions...assuming they have the awareness (and the jump to 'understanding' is quite a journey from that point as well).  I can easily visualize (auralize?) how a midbass horn could solve some problems while creating plenty of their own. 

LBJ


I'm not interested in having an orchestra sound like itself. I want it to sound like the composer. Leonard Bernstein
05-14-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 163
Post ID: 10517
Reply to: 10511
My Cat as a jet propulsion engine
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Lbjefferies7 wrote:

I will be laughing my ass off when I visit the GoodSoundClub website and read about a certain Cat who was finally motivated into tuning the ports on the Mini's specifically to "adjust" Macondo's sound!  I am reminded of Buckminster Fuller's chosen nickname "trimtab"...the tiny rudder on the rudder of the Queen Mary, for instance.  The trimtab creates a low presure that swings the huge rudder that steers the entire ship.  Could Mini's port be Macondo's trimtab?  I love the analogy even if it is BS.

With all of the issues with intigrating an 8 foot array of 6 (and then 7) channels, it is no wonder that the many audiophiles indulge in delusions and confuse them with solutions...assuming they have the awareness (and the jump to 'understanding' is quite a journey from that point as well).  I can easily visualize (auralize?) how a midbass horn could solve some problems while creating plenty of their own. 


I would agree that is would be laughable and the beneficial impact of MiniMe’s bass to Macondo will most likely have no more effect then the reaction effect of my Cat’s far would propel Earth out its orbit. Still, no matter what, the ported MiniMe’s bass section would act as some king Helmholtz Resonator for Macondo. How auditable it will be is another subject. I might keep the SS amp that drives MiniMe all time on that would damp the MiniMe’s bass drivers... If to be VERY crazy I might have negative output impedance on this SS amp that would hold the MiniMe’s bass drivers “unresonanceable”. Hold on, did I juts “invited” a way to dynamically tune a Helmholtz Resonator?

Anyhow, the very major tool in the fine-tuning of my upperbass and bass channel is… the high-pass filter on my Injection Channel. It is completely not known and very much not logically quantifiable but this high-pass filter is absolutely wonderful toll in context of Macondo that allow doing a LOT. I have seen people online were bitching about my Injection Channel but I know those people and I know that that are idiots. In reality any single person who visited me if they asked me to demonstrate the benefits of the Injection Channel were immediately and very convincingly sold. The bottom of the Injection Channel is VERY tricky subject; it moderates the “barrel effect” of my upperbass. It is like taking into a large barrel and be able to modify how much the barrel is filled. So, I presume that since the use of my Injection Channel will be most likely modified after the DHT MF channel will be in full-time use and since the MiniMe’s bass is installed and will remand where it is, I think that my upcoming fine re-tuning of Injection Channel high-pass will already include the noise that  MiniMe’s bass section would introduce.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 164
Post ID: 10535
Reply to: 10508
It sucks! Literally sucks.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
.... I was/am afraid this effect too. I discovered it a few years back when suddenly my bass picked some odd harmonics. After a few days I realized that the harmonics came from an acoustic guitar that was sitting in my listening room at that time.
Today I did verify that MiniMe’s Bass sections do impact the Macodno’s Bass. In fact the impact is at surprisingly high amplitude and quite negative. That it very bad discovery as I have no idea how to deal with it. I, of cause, refuse to plug the MiniMe’s bass port s when I decided to turn Macondo on. Any interesting ideas besides moving the MiniMe’s Bass sections way out?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 165
Post ID: 10537
Reply to: 10535
Waay Back
fiogf49gjkf0d
A while back I suggested (easy for me...!) using monitors that you could also use as the injection channels (or vice-versa), and this was largely out of consideration for the inevitable cone interactions you are finally bitching about.  I actually named a couple of candidates, but your Reds are probably within striking distance, with just a little tuning, if you dread a(nother) change.

Yes, this would also mean more power to drive the monitors; but I also recommended (easy for me...!) a decent auto-trimming "AB" PP amp that has the needed power but it still idles very low.

Hell, it's only (your) money...

Best regards,
Paul S
05-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lbjefferies7
Southern California
Posts 49
Joined on 01-11-2008

Post #: 166
Post ID: 10538
Reply to: 10535
"Hope" is for the enslaved (and promise of Change is for the hopeful)
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, the only thing I can think of is to seal them and keep 'em that way.  I've made only a couple of vented enclosures and they have all ended up being sealed or severely aperiodic.  Even if the Mini's are moved back, it is unlikely that they would be acceptable...better, but probably not right.

I might keep the SS amp that drives MiniMe all time on that would damp the MiniMe’s bass drivers... If to be VERY crazy I might have negative output impedance on this SS amp that would hold the MiniMe’s bass drivers “unresonanceable”. Hold on, did I juts “invited” a way to dynamically tune a Helmholtz Resonator?

I don't think that's enough.  The drivers and enclosures lead fairly separate lives.  If you were to short the drivers, the enclosures will continue to make noise, perhaps just at a lower amplitude and higher frequency.  They would probably work something like bass traps and we all know how fucked those things are.  Maybe I'm totally wrong but Helmholtz resonators are like politicians...any intelligent person quickly abandons hope, and is very seldom surprised.

LBJ



I'm not interested in having an orchestra sound like itself. I want it to sound like the composer. Leonard Bernstein
05-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 167
Post ID: 10539
Reply to: 10537
How to put one ass on a few chairs.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Lbjefferies7 wrote:
Well, the only thing I can think of is to seal them and keep 'em that way.

Yes, is exactly what I did - I stocked socks into the ports, plaguing then up. That did ruin a lot the sound of the MiniMe. What I think is following: how about tine the posts of MiniMe in a way that it will not affect the Macondo but still give “some” extension to MiniMe. I less concern at this point about the quality of MiniMe bass.

 Paul S wrote:
A while back I suggested (easy for me...!) using monitors that you could also use as the injection channels (or vice-versa)

Good idea but absolutely not implementable as MiniMe and Injection Channels are driver from two very different amps with totally different volume levels.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 168
Post ID: 10540
Reply to: 10539
Port plugs
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy wrote :

"...Yes, is exactly what I did - I stocked socks into the ports, plaguing then up. That did ruin a lot the sound of the MiniMe..."

Something like this would provide a better seal, while being quick to install/remove :
http://www.indigo.com/science-supplies/gph-science-supply/rubber-stopper.html

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 169
Post ID: 11025
Reply to: 10188
An amp drive the MiniMe…
fiogf49gjkf0d

The MiniMe, as much as the rest of my playback have lost the “novelty”. I do not do or planning to do anything with audio. I have found the way to calm down my Focal tweeters and it… will die this way. For what MiniMe meant to be it does very good.

The only thing that I might change with MiniMe might be a power amp that I drive it with. I use 70W SS consumer Hitachi amp that I bought for $50. It is very bad, even for MiniMe and I do no mind to get anything better but not too demanding.

Something for let say $300, SS, cool running, 100W, something that can run all time, sound good and preferably soft sounding. I think I need to puck some high-end consumer amps from 70s-80s, probably build around the V-FET transistors, if they are all not burned yet.

I do not look the level of Lamm M1.1 performance but I look something better then the crap that I use now.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
gormee
Posts 9
Joined on 05-28-2009

Post #: 170
Post ID: 11026
Reply to: 11025
SS Amp
fiogf49gjkf0d

Hi Romy,

If you are willing to stretch your budget and DIY check out this site from Australia.

http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/index.html

regards,

Gordon

07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 171
Post ID: 11027
Reply to: 11026
To review the subject after 17 years.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks, Gordon

I have absolutely no desire to undertake any DIY efforts for MiniMe amp. The amp that I want will be boxed, with bells and whistles, binding posts and matters. There were plenty of top of the line Yamahas, Sonys and Sansuis were made in end of 70s and 80s and some of them were surprisingly good. Take a look at my Sansui SU-1X – a consumer mass-market unit but no “high-end” tuner with “objectives” can beat in term of Sound. At the period they did make some interesting amps, some of them were VERY expensive at that time; some of them had popularity mostly in Japanese market and they were not bad. Back in beginning of the 90s I had one “serious” Yamaha V-FET amp and I remember it was pretty good. Of cause I was much different that time and my demand were much different but it might be interesting to review the subject now with MiniMe.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 172
Post ID: 11028
Reply to: 11027
Denon
fiogf49gjkf0d
The new Denon amps are definitely on the soft side (my sister has one).
They have lower wattage than you desire, however (assumed you mean 8 Ohm).
The more powerful is in the 1000 € range with nothing in between.
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 173
Post ID: 11029
Reply to: 11028
I would like to go V-FET…
fiogf49gjkf0d

Well, since I will not experiment with many of them I'm  kind of narrowing down the scope of the amps that I would like to get. In 70s-80s break there was a short period of time when Yamaha and Sony made top of the line amps around V-FET output transistors. The V-FET are very different little bitches as the run a very-very high bias, I think like 20V or 25V that make them very much operate like a triode in A1. They shall sound much different then what ordinary would be expected from transistors. If I get “better” SS amp for MiniMe then I would like to try a full-blown V-FET. They are usually big but still manageable… I do not think that V-FETs are used anymore. Spectral said that this 360 amp use V-FETs but I do not know if it is true.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 174
Post ID: 11030
Reply to: 11029
Vince...
fiogf49gjkf0d
...in Watertown is a huge fan of 70s-80s solid state amplifiers, especially those from Japan; it's as if his shop is stuck in time.  His professional background is engineering solid state amplifiers from, you guessed it, the 70s and 80s.  So for this particular search, I think it would make sense to drop him a line, especially given the geographical proximity  

He will not be shy about sharing his opinion on your search; whether you agree with him or not is an entirely different kettle of fish
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 175
Post ID: 11031
Reply to: 11030
Picked today a Yamaha B-2 to drive MiniMe.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks, scooter.

I do not know Vince from Watertown. As long he does not work for Goodwins’ from Watertown I might be able to talk with him…. After some consideration I picked today Yamaha B-2 amp. It is V-FET from 1978, it might be interesting.  Post Vince’s site or his shop info I might need to have B-2 serviced or modified.  I think the 140W of B-2 might be good for my MiniMe, I just a bit afraid that it might run to hot…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 176
Post ID: 11032
Reply to: 11031
Specifics?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think I remember an "exotic" Yamaha B-1 amp.  Is it like that?

In most cases, they all seem to have introduce a good line up and then started downgrading them; or so i remember.

Anyway, I hope this works out, and it's probably better than all but the $$$$$ gear of today.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 177
Post ID: 11033
Reply to: 11031
Hot...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,

That is a nifty looking amp; it will be interesting to see how it works with the MiniMe and how well it heats your room this summer

These guys are not Goodwin's but are an old school stereo shop that sells and refurbs 70s/80s solid state gear.  There is no showroom or salesmen, just a few work benches and gear stacked to the ceiling, somewhat like Ken Bernanky's shop, although slightly neater and slightly faster 

Vince is an electrical engineer who has done some rather complicated refurb work for me, and did a good job; he worked for APT Holman and Scott in the 70s and I think is still there in some form, which is ideal for this task in my view.  Give the guy a few minutes to explain all your service alternatives as his suggestions are not always intuitive  

The website is not pretty...
Vince Naeve
Audio Pros, Inc.
779 Mt. Auburn St.
Watertown, MA 02472
617-926-8020
http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php
07-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 178
Post ID: 11034
Reply to: 11031
Over/under two weeks on the Yamaha
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy, 
 I had a background system for a while using either Kef 103.2 or tannoy gold 15¨ and McIntosh MC2205.  I don't know anything about the other McIntosh gear but this particular amp had a reputation amongst french vintage nuts. My old Threshold stasis amp was pretty competent as well.   I  gave up the 2nd system in the end as it didn't stimulate me intellectually and I slowly stopped turning it on.

R Weissman

07-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 179
Post ID: 11041
Reply to: 10535
Tampax for MiniMe?
fiogf49gjkf0d

I went for a better amp for MiniMe because it’s summer, hot and I am listening MiniMe more than Macondo.

But!

As I said before the MiniMe post talks with Macondo (when I turn Macondo on) and it forces me to plug the MiniMe port with a pile of sacks. This is a tedious task… I have to admit that I thought to use the MiniMe with plugged port but it does not breathe right …

So, I wonder: what if I plug the whole foe port with some kind of passive radiator? Then I might still have the LF extension but the open hole will not act as a Helmholtz resonator.

I do not know how to deal with characteristics of passive radiators. If I look at drivers then I would go for something like Morel ECW 536

http://www.morelhifi.com/products/pdf/Woofers/EW/Specs%20sheet%20ECW%20536.pdf

I presume that with no vise coil and gup it would have 3 time mire exertions and even lower resonant frequency.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 180
Post ID: 11043
Reply to: 11041
Say What?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, you mention the passive radiator and then you link to a normal 5" poly-cone  driver.  I guess I don't get what you mean.

I can't remember hearing a "passive radiator" speaker that was worth the dynamite to blow it up. Those I have heard made regular BR sound articulate by comparison.  I tried it once for a couple of weeks, using little blobs of museum putty to tune the passive unit.  I just could not get the thing to "sync" with the live parts of the speaker, and it also contributed all sorts of unexpected phase, dynamic, and tonal issues that seemed unpredictable as I varied the mass, so I gave up.

If you want to plug the port, maybe just plug it by degrees, starting with light foam or other fluffy stuff.

I don't see how you can stop the "communication" between the speakers, however.  Or maybe you just want to drop the main sympathetic frequency?

If that's the case, I would think the LF "conversation" might actually be worse, overall.  At least, that's what I've found.

Best regards,
Paul S
Page 9 of 11 (214 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 7 8 9 10 11 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Suggested target curves and setup techniques for Pro Au..  Contacting Thorsten...  Didital Things  Forum     9  90120  03-23-2005
  »  New  “A” sound from “B” system?..  Re: “A” sound from “B” system?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     13  98295  05-22-2005
  »  New  A quest for a better monitor...  Dome tweeters and brightness in SL600...  Audio Discussions  Forum     97  709846  06-08-2006
  »  New  Rightsizing from extreme systems......  It is Hot! The summer playback...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  51195  06-17-2006
  »  New  Monitors: Wishful thinking..  Digital crossover...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  76365  07-23-2006
  »  New  Cool running AB amplifier.. with good sound...  How about more current integrateds?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     11  77103  07-25-2006
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  334543  12-22-2006
  »  New  The inflatable speakers dumping and no only...  Labyrinth?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  49342  05-30-2007
  »  New  The foolishness of multiple playback systems...  The foolishness of multiple playback systems....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  11136  04-09-2008
  »  New  Help to identify the LF driver...  Shell I install some kind of finding award? I might…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  19440  09-06-2008
  »  New  The low-power SET and dead speakers..  Expiring Cygnets (Back to Bass-ics)...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  22248  01-18-2009
  »  New  Off-the-wall playback or the 'hamster solution'...  Spacial information...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  35472  02-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo listening experience..  Actually I disagree with your assessment....  Playback Listening  Forum     4  37379  06-16-2009
  »  New  Yamaha B-2 V-FET amplifier...  I do like my B-2...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  133913  07-20-2009
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