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07-12-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 177
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1661
Post ID: 25516
Reply to: 25445
Capstone turbine.
A bit of the crazy side, but had anyone thought about a Capstone turbine (and could also be used for heating at the same time)?





Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-05-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1662
Post ID: 25535
Reply to: 25516
Pure Power 3000+
I have connected My Audio Note DAC 5 to EAR HP4 Headphone Amplifier and I hear the sound from My Sennheiser HD800. the Source is Computer .
Sennheiser HD800 is not easy load for HP4 and i think HD800 is very very bad sounding Headphone.
it is interesting that Audio Note DAC 5 shows the quality of AC more than other Components. I do not why but it seems Audio Note PSU filter is different to other designs. Pure Power 3000+ spectrum shows some harmonics around 20khz and the Audio Note DAC 5 does not filter those harmonics completely. I will publish the spectrum if you need it.
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound.

1. I think Pure Power 3000+ is a wonderful Product but the Main AC quality affect it's sound.

2. different components has different PSU filter design and react different to AC quality.



the Pure Power 3000+ has a option to connect a huge battery bank to it. it may help for very bad days.
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good.
I have checked My system for ground Loop and there is no ground loop in my system and My PurePower 3000+ is 100% OK (it has no noise).

08-05-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,643
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1663
Post ID: 25536
Reply to: 25535
Amir, a few things…
First of all, if you have multiple of PP3000 then be advices that them connected in parallel substantially descries sound quality for each of them. Then might be use ONLY at different phases of some measures should be taken to decuple them by other means.
 Amir wrote:
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound. 
   
How methodologically you distinct the contribution to sound the come from regenerator vs the nastiness that come from power lines? I mean when the elasticity is very bad and you have the reported “harsh sound” then I presume that this harsh sound is caused by bad electricity. You feel that “Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound … harsh sound”, so why do you feel that it is the PP3000 the one that has less transparent sound if the harshness comes from power lines?  Did you developed any techniques to differentiate the PP3000’s own harsh sound from power lines harsh sound?
 Amir wrote:
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good. 

You absolutely should not do it. The topology of the digital regenerators like PP make them unstable and in fact dangers to be connected in series. The PP should warn the customers against doing it and in fact drop any warranties if somebody insist to use PP in this configuration. Hypothetically it is possible to use PP in series with an insolation transformer between them but then the measures should be taken to decuple then via ground, which brings own bad of the problems. Anyhow, I do recommend if you are not familiar with topological idiosyncrasies of series connecting of switched power supplies then do not connect PP in series.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-06-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1664
Post ID: 25537
Reply to: 25536
Romy Thanks
 Romy the Cat wrote:
First of all, if you have multiple of PP3000 then be advices that them connected in parallel substantially descries sound quality for each of them. Then might be use ONLY at different phases of some measures should be taken to decuple them by other means.
 Amir wrote:
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound. 
   
How methodologically you distinct the contribution to sound the come from regenerator vs the nastiness that come from power lines? I mean when the elasticity is very bad and you have the reported “harsh sound” then I presume that this harsh sound is caused by bad electricity. You feel that “Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound … harsh sound”, so why do you feel that it is the PP3000 the one that has less transparent sound if the harshness comes from power lines?  Did you developed any techniques to differentiate the PP3000’s own harsh sound from power lines harsh sound?
 Amir wrote:
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good. 

You absolutely should not do it. The topology of the digital regenerators like PP make them unstable and in fact dangers to be connected in series. The PP should warn the customers against doing it and in fact drop any warranties if somebody insist to use PP in this configuration. Hypothetically it is possible to use PP in series with an insolation transformer between them but then the measures should be taken to decuple then via ground, which brings own bad of the problems. Anyhow, I do recommend if you are not familiar with topological idiosyncrasies of series connecting of switched power supplies then do not connect PP in series.

yes, Parallel Pure Power 3000+ is not good. when one Pure Power 3000+ is connected to AC then there is more noise in home Line for example when the Pure Power 3000+ is connected to AC then my TV picture quality decrease a-little (the TV is not connected to Pure Power , TV is connected to other main sockets in my home).

Thank you for give warning about series PP3000+ . I do not use them in series.



I have Listened many times to my system without Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was good.
I have Listened many times to my system without Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was not good.I have listened many times to my system with Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was good.I have listened many times to my system with Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was not good.My ears is familiar with/without Pure Power 3000+ in good/bad electricity days.

the Pure Power 3000+ is also has a bypass switch but i do not use it because it does not work in my Silver PP3000+. My black PP3000+ bypass switch is OK and i had some tests with it but my main experience is not using bypass switch to detect the difference.
I had a long time for looking at effect of Pure Power on my system. i should say my judgment is related to my setup because different PSU react different to AC.



1. when the AC is not good (most of the time the AC in my apartment is not good , maybe because i live in a big complex that AC/ground is shared between many apartment) and the PP3000+ is not used then the sound is sick and the structure of sound is not right . both harmonic and dynamics are destroyed.

2. when the AC is good and the PP3000+ is not used then the sound is good but not perfect , you can listen more to music but the dynamics is not perfect and the transparency is not very high. you just have a smooth sound and you can listen for long period of time. your brain has no problem with sound.




3. when the AC is not good and i use the PP3000+ then the sound is better than direct AC but it is not perfect. it's not so relax and it is not so smooth. PP3000+ make the sound more dynamic with more resolution but the brain is not so relax in long time. when AC is bad the Pure Power can not fully make my brain relax for long listening sessions. I agree Pure Power 3000+ help to have better sound but it can not fully isolate me from AC. I think we can not judge the sound of PP3000+ when the AC is bad. I do not mean PP3000+ is harsh and i correct my pervious post , i mean the output sound is alittle harsh and it may not related to pp3000+.



4. when the AC is good and the PP3000+ is used then the sound is very very very good, I love it . both harmonic and dynamic is good. no other changes in the system (like changing components) could change the sound like PP3000+ .
the only thing that PP3000+ may could be improved is about midrange texture. maybe PP2000+ be better i do not know but the PP3000+ is not the ultimate in midrange texture. please do not mistake , the sound is so good and i just have a minor (very minor) critique about it's midrange.



My silver PP3000+ battery voltage is 82 volts not 72 volts.



08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1665
Post ID: 25543
Reply to: 25536
Three thing that degrade the sound when Pure Power is used
I think if you use Pure Power 3000+ it is better to use shorter power cables (2m is very good) . the bass and attacks are better with shorter Power cables. you should not have any ground loop in your system if you use Pure Power 3000+. it is very very important. ground loop degrades the sound easily and you will not have natural transparent upper mid and high frequncy.
It is very important to separate cables from each other . when there is more than 10cm distance between cables the sound is better.
08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 288
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1666
Post ID: 25544
Reply to: 25543
Sorry Amir, I just do not buy it
 Amir wrote:
I think if you use Pure Power 3000+ it is better to use shorter power cables (2m is very good) . the bass and attacks are better with shorter Power cables. you should not have any ground loop in your system if you use Pure Power 3000+. it is very very important. ground loop degrades the sound easily and you will not have natural transparent upper mid and high frequncy.
It is very important to separate cables from each other . when there is more than 10cm distance between cables the sound is better.

Amir, this sounds so much like audio dealer snake oil. I have really stopped taking your comments seriously.
To compare power cables, we have to have so many reference points established to prove that it is the length and not the method of attachment to the plugs. The electricity has to be „Identical“ for hours. The contact pressure has to be the same for each outlet and plug. Our musical memory has to be very stable.
We really do not need reports of voodoo or a last wet dream. If you want to be taken seriously, describe the test procedure and outcome of each test. What does „better bass“ mean in this context? Bass is mostly a room artifact. Bass is ULF, LF, midbass, upper bass. Attack is a couple of octaves higher. What changed where? What does better attack mean? 3dB more around 2K?
What improvement do you have after 10 cm?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,643
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1667
Post ID: 25545
Reply to: 25544
The voodoo or not the voodoo.
I do not defend Amir’s observations and I also do not take his comments seriously. I have no idea what he is taking about ground loop, not sure that he has an idea BUT I do agree that separation of power cables from each other after the generator can make difference. I would not say how to do it properly and what is “better” but I did observe that powers cables layout does impact sound in all together well done and perfectly calibrated playback. My own playback now does not go to the level of “perfection” what I could care to recognized the difference but there was time when I did observe this influence. Amir claims that over 10cm between the cable does make some improvement, highly possible. It would greatly depend from what kind power cables he uses and how the PS supplies are made in the devises tat the power cable connected.  Can we call it voodoo? Hm, not necessary. The PP generates over20kH pulses that care 50Hz main voltage. Let pretend that 5 loads are driven by PP. So, we have 5 transmission lines running more or less parallel and the do not run in the cables but in the electro-magnetic field around the cables. I presume that electro-magnetic between those 5 transmission lines might be auditable. You do not need to have “stable musical memory” or electricity to be stable over the hours. All the you need to do is somebody to move your cables while you do critical listening. Sometimes if it not effective, sometimes it does but if might be effective then it stops to be voodoo. My liquid isolated cables have no bass unless they sit undisturbed for a few days. Is it voodoo? Yes, it is, bit it is commonly acknowledged by the manufacturer and by anybody who ever used PAD cables. Cables are freaky. Who the hell would believe that digital cables might have different sound but we all know they do…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1668
Post ID: 25546
Reply to: 25544
This is not voodoo
 rowuk wrote:

We really do not need reports of voodoo or a last wet dream. If you want to be taken seriously, describe the test procedure and outcome of each test. What does „better bass“ mean in this context?

Rowuk
if you have Pure Power 3000 then you can do below test .
please buy two AC Power cable with very different length , for example 1.5m and 6m are different enough. connect them to your power amplifier for comparing those cables. please just do this test only when you use Pure Power 3000+.

you easily detect the shorter cable has better bass. it is not voodoo because i can easily hear difference of 2m AC cable and 4m AC cable.I think every thing that limits the slew rate of current delivery of system may limits the bass attack.


 Romy the Cat wrote:
It would greatly depend from what kind power cables he uses and how the PS supplies are made in the devises tat the power cable connected. 

My liquid isolated cables have no bass unless they sit undisturbed for a few days. Is it voodoo? Yes, it is, bit it is commonly acknowledged by the manufacturer and by anybody who ever used PAD cables. Cables are freaky. Who the hell would believe that digital cables might have different sound but we all know they do…

I use Purist Audio Neptune liquid AC Cables.


I think high end audio is a hard challenge, it is even harder than going to K2 mountain in winter :-))
the problem is that all things are important to have perfect sound because all things have effect on the sound.
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,208
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1669
Post ID: 25547
Reply to: 25546
The Objective Subjective: Theme and Variations
Well, if you can hear differences, that is a blessing and a curse because it's not only many particular things that influence the sound but different combinations of things, as well. In "the professional world" power source treatments are "matched" to power power supplies because there is basically no one size that best fits all. In the end, we make innumerable compromises and arrive at the "best" version of the sound we want for the minimum amount of time per day/week/month/year we will accept from our "solution".  Then, regardless of how "great" it sounded when we decided on it, we change things to explore our music presented differently.


Paul S
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 504
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1670
Post ID: 25548
Reply to: 25547
Match the system to be true to the source
 Amir wrote:
... because i can easily hear difference of 2m AC cable and 4m AC cable ... 
Yes, it's true. This reminds me of when I was testing different parts in an amplifier, and I was getting help from my father (this was about thirty years ago when he was still alive). At one point he declared: "Ok, that really improved the sound. There is a lot more bass. What did you do?" 

I had just happened to use a different AC cord when I plugged the amplifier back in, and I told him so. At that point, my father (who worked as an aerospace engineer for 40 years) declared it to be impossible, got up, and left the room.

So, I am of the opinion that most anyone can hear the differences. We just don't understand the physics of why it makes a difference. Just make sure you do it in a double blinded fashion, and be ready to accept that sometimes the less expensive fancy option will be better!
 Paul S wrote:
... we make innumerable compromises and arrive at the "best" version of the sound we want for the minimum amount of time per day/week/month/year we will accept from our "solution" ... 
Paul offers a astute view. How do we decide what the system should sound like? The problem is that different source material each represents a different recording technique, each of which requires different "correction" in reproduction to sound true to the original event.

Since we have many different recordings in our collections, there is a tendency to always change the system to change the "corrections" to match different source material. Because my wife is a professional musician, we have numerous recordings of her, many of which I did "live" at the events, so we tune the system to be as accurate as possible to what she actually sounds like. She is there to sing and play in the same room for comparison and is actively involved in deciding what changes in the system sound closer to reality. It's not perfect for all the other records in my collection, but it is a happy medium that has some semblance of objectivity.

Adrian
08-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1671
Post ID: 25549
Reply to: 25548
Change your speaker position and Repeat the test
 drdna wrote:


So, I am of the opinion that most anyone can hear the differences. We just don't understand the physics of why it makes a difference. Just make sure you do it in a double blinded fashion, and be ready to accept that sometimes the less expensive fancy option will be better!

Adrian

me and my friend had many blind tests to be sure our observation is not illusion. with blind eyes I ask my friend to let me listen to A for 5 minutes then B for 5 minutes and next My friend will demo one of them (A or B) and i should try to detect the next is A or B.I repeat this test more than 3 times. it is very clear that our ears could detect many things that physics could not explain it.

It is funny that sometimes we should listen to A and B in different places in the room or change the speaker position to repeat the test.
sometimes component A and B sounds similar and you may find A better than B in one place and B is better in another place.when you place your loudspeaker in a very very good place then changing the A to B may affect on the sound and you should change the speaker position to repeat the test. I mean if your speaker be optimised for component A then changing the component to B will change the best position of speaker and you should repeat the test after changing the speaker position.
changing speaker position or changing listener place will help to have a right judgment.


08-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 288
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1672
Post ID: 25557
Reply to: 25549
I still do not buy it
Amir,in my world there is a process for selection and it is not AB or changing power cords. That does not mean that I deny that equipment (including cables) can change sound. It means that the normal audiophool description "it was immediately better" does not match my view of the way that things work in music.

We are creatures of habit and to have meaningful comparisons, we need a period of acclimation. We will always gravitate to what we are used to and changes in the beginning are always more dramatic then they are after we get used to the new situation. In my world, I try something new exclusively for weeks/months and then switch back to the previous setup. Then Bias Confirmation is NOT part of the process.

I follow some of your posts and I see more "stereophile" or TAS behavior than serious reference points. You seem to believe that hardware will solve your problems. I disagree with this stand. Solutions are between the ears and once hardware is not the focus, things can improve very quickly.

By the way, if your speakers are properly positioned, then you NEVER move them - especially if the voodoo only made the bass better.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 1673
Post ID: 25558
Reply to: 25557
The necessity of long-term listening
Rowuk, I like what you say, although who among us would not? Nevertheless the righteous immediacy of short-term auditions needn’t be dismissed.
I can not however join you in your disparagement of what you’re pleased to call “voodoo” treatments. Just because you don’t understand how something works doesn’t mean it fails of explanation or effectiveness. You seem to forget that “voodoo” too can (and should) be evaluated over the long term. Myself, I have found that such treatments — usually relatively inexpensive — yield more sonic improvement per dollar than almost any new equipment, phono cartridges excepted.
That’s all, folks!
08-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 197
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1674
Post ID: 25559
Reply to: 25557
Good System Good Ears
 rowuk wrote:
Amir,in my world there is a process for selection and it is not AB or changing power cords. That does not mean that I deny that equipment (including cables) can change sound. It means that the normal audiophool description "it was immediately better" does not match my view of the way that things work in music.

We are creatures of habit and to have meaningful comparisons, we need a period of acclimation. We will always gravitate to what we are used to and changes in the beginning are always more dramatic then they are after we get used to the new situation. In my world, I try something new exclusively for weeks/months and then switch back to the previous setup. Then Bias Confirmation is NOT part of the process.

I follow some of your posts and I see more "stereophile" or TAS behavior than serious reference points. You seem to believe that hardware will solve your problems. I disagree with this stand. Solutions are between the ears and once hardware is not the focus, things can improve very quickly.

By the way, if your speakers are properly positioned, then you NEVER move them - especially if the voodoo only made the bass better.

Rowuk  
I agree sometimes we need more time to have meaningful comparison , we also need a good system to have meaningful comparison .But sometimes there is no need to listen and compare in long period of time and the comparison could be quickly .
Let me explain more , If you have good system (transparent) and if you are professional listener then you will have meaningful comparison in shorter time.If you have stereophile recommended audio system and if you are not professional listener then you will not have meaningful comparison even in long time.
Transparent system is like Living Voice/Kondo (munich 2014) not those stereophile recommended products.Professional listener is a man who can detect right judgment in shorter time. Check the listening levels of this forum and i have wrote about my view in past .
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=254#254


Good Hardware is important but it is not all thing we need.
Excuse me for offtopic
08-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 504
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1675
Post ID: 25560
Reply to: 25558
The importance of A/B comparisons
 clarkjohnsen wrote:
the righteous immediacy of short-term auditions needn’t be dismissed
I personally have not found prolonged listening mandatory at all times, but when I listen in A/B comparisons I have objective goals in mind. Most of the time, new equipment does not sound better to my ears. There are differences in both additive and subtractive distortions. The precaution we must all take is not to be enchanted by some additive distortion which sounds "new and exciting" -- this is the primary reason that listeners (and myself in the past) initially like some new piece of equipment and then with extended listening lose interest.

Adrian
08-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 288
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1676
Post ID: 25561
Reply to: 25558
Voodoo and other things of interest
Thank you Clark for your comment.
Unfortunately, I think that you missed the point. It is possible that a power cord can change things. The description „better“ is a moving target however. Let us take for example a „full range“ driver in a backloaded horn speaker. Most will have deficient midbass and a cutoff of around 50 Hz. Can we talk about „better bass“ in this context? What extension and or qualities do we need to talk about better anything? What reference points allow us to determine if something is „better“ or just „different“. What is the difference between an opinion formed superficially and a fact?

In this case, a claim is made. No reference points were discussed (what WAS the change, in what context, are we talking about ULF/LF/midbass/upper bass or just their overtones). What changed in Amir after the new experience?

As far as short term comparisons go, I am a professional trumpeter and have been playing at a fairly high level for well over 40 years. One would think that I could pick up a new instrument and immediately declare its „qualities“. Reviewers actually often do this. It simply does not work. Sure, there is something that you notice, but after a couple of weeks or months, that „opinion“ changes because the context changes as you get into the instrument. Why? The same reason as I call this particular instance voodoo. What happens when we learn to listen is very complex. The information provided by only two speakers (or a trumpet)is „deficient“ in many ways and we learn to fill in the blanks through experience (well, some learn to fill in the blanks, others keep changing gear and NEVER develop any reference points). If we change something, we have to spend time to overcome the listening habits first. Even then, a „rating“ is often a very stupid thing because there is no free lunch. Even if we would fully understand all of the physics applied to a new trumpet or power cord, we still are not closer to a better experience until we learn to leverage whatever something does. That takes time and a serious approach.

In the case of a trumpet, the same instrument changes its playing quality dramatically depending on the environment. Playing outdoors makes the instrument play in a stuffy way. A nice concert hall gives me better feedback - everything is easier to play. For outdoors I pick a lighter weight instrument that gives me more feedback.

In the case of a power cord there are many things that COULD cause a „change“. Is that change bias confirmation? Is it initially more work for the brain because we have changed something? Should we have noticed the deficiency before? Have we given due attention to phase, plug quality, environmental issues (a certain length of wire can also be an antenna...). Are we noticing a crappy power supply? There are many further questions that must be asked - and even after this we still ONLY have a difference - not a qualitative measure.

I disagree with Amir that better ears hear faster. In my world, the more that I know, the more that I realize what I do not know. Good/better/best NEVER come up. Changes can show up and I can evaluate them and describe the differences and the context. Without the reference points, „better“ is just audiophool jargon. There is no credibility to those without process. They flap in the wind and tomorrow they find something else „magical“ but offer no value add because the experience is never qualified.

For the most part, I keep Analog cables and interconnects as short as possible to limit capacitive, inductive and reactive behavior. Shields are well earthed and I am anal retentive about checking for proper orientation of the power plug in the socket (in Germany we have no power line phase protection. The Schuko plug can be inserted at 0° and 180°).


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,643
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1677
Post ID: 25562
Reply to: 25561
The quantum audio righteousness.
Rowuk, ironically I am in agreement with your high horse approach and Amir’s “acknowledge and be happy” point of view. Almost in continuation to my thread from last week “Destination vs ceremony” I would like to ask a question. Not that it requests an answer, it is rather a “Cheshire Cat” type of the question. What we do it high-end, is it a ceremony to accomplish some kind of practical or abstract results, would it be the result with music or with us? Or what we do in high-end rather a ceremony to get a satisfaction to our objectives, whatever they are? If you are in camp with second ansver then you can easy see how you and Amir might be both right, sort of my version of quantum audio righteousness. 
 
If we post slightly different question: what righteousness is more important: your of Amir’s then we have a very different game to play but we all agree that the answer to THAT question is not in the domain of audio at all and we need to switch the conversation from cable elevators to Thomas Mann’s level of soliloquy. 
 
PS: To the rest of guys, including myself. This thread is about the mad... electricity. Let not to contaminate the mad electricity with human madness. :-)


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-24-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,208
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1678
Post ID: 25563
Reply to: 25562
Better AC = Better Sound
Back to this thread, there is no arguing that better AC makes better sound from a system that's capable to deliver it in any case. For me, this has not been a matter of long term listening for differences, rather it has in every case been the fairly immediate sense of something very wrong or very right, depending  on the quality of the AC.


Paul S
08-25-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 288
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1679
Post ID: 25564
Reply to: 25563
Is it „better AC“ or consistent AC?
Do we simply not want a non-changing target? As regeneration does not seem to be „the“ solution (especially if the AC cord behind the regenerator changes bass), what does better AC even mean?
Perhaps the designers of great equipment need to rethink power supply architecture. Our power source will not get better over time. The drive to eliminate coal and atomic reactors does not leave us with a whole lot of options. Regenerative power, especially solar is not consistent and we do not have really good methods to store excess power. 
For my own system, the weather plays a bigger part than the electricity. Certain nice things happen when the humidity goes over 60% (more space, denser tone, less noise from LPs).


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-25-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,643
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1680
Post ID: 25565
Reply to: 25564
I wish it was simple....
Rowuk, I wish it would be as simple and as linear as you described it. 
 
Let me to take it step by step. 
 
The better AC even mean that variable characteristics of electricity result various consuming experiences of perceive sound. I do not name those characteristics and not sure that I ever know the final list of the characteristics but let all agree that the different electricity result different auditable experiences. 
 
I do not think the designers of great equipment would rethink power supply architecture, they hardly acknowledge the problem and the few of them who do to go to the depth of the problem just enough to satisfy corporate quarter revenue. So, I would not expect a solution from there. It is snot even 80/20 type of problem but rather 99/1 problem…. 
 
To illustrate the complexity let look at your own statement that “weather plays a bigger part than the electricity”. Although I do not disagree with your feeling that humidity plays great role, I think to priority weather/humidity over electricity is mistake. Let look deeper. 
 
There are right on surface well understood reasons why humidity lead to the results you described. More space and denser tone might come from the fact that higher humidity “soften” the deriver suspension, the cantilever’s suspension and results more low order harmonics and dropping resonance frequencies. Taking about Wagner tuning… The less noise from LP is very expendable as well as moisture act as lubricant over the LP tension. It is not to mention that some topologies, like yellow delivers for instance, are very much subjected to humidity change. 
 
Ok, let to make the things more complicated as we are approaching the magic triangle. As the humidity rises and the sound become better than we left with the 3, almost philosophical, questions: 
 
1)    Does higher humidity physically impact the playback process, including the simple reasons I described above?
2)    Does higher humidity impact sonic conductively of air?
3)    Does higher humidity impact our listening awareness?
   
It is not about the complexity of the question but rather the absence of a common methodological approach to observe each of the reasons in isolation. It is like a person who have a tendency to anxiety suddenly begin to feel lack of harmony between itself and surrounding. Does this lack of harmony come from the person perception of tit comes from the surrounding expression?



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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