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  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  121575  05-28-2004
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  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  The Sound Obsessive List of DACs/Chips...  Didital Things  Forum     23  154136  09-28-2007
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  »  New  Another example of energy..  Change your speaker position and Repeat the test...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1670  6733103  01-29-2011
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07-12-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 168
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1661
Post ID: 25516
Reply to: 25445
Capstone turbine.
A bit of the crazy side, but had anyone thought about a Capstone turbine (and could also be used for heating at the same time)?





Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-05-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 191
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1662
Post ID: 25535
Reply to: 25516
Pure Power 3000+
I have connected My Audio Note DAC 5 to EAR HP4 Headphone Amplifier and I hear the sound from My Sennheiser HD800. the Source is Computer .
Sennheiser HD800 is not easy load for HP4 and i think HD800 is very very bad sounding Headphone.
it is interesting that Audio Note DAC 5 shows the quality of AC more than other Components. I do not why but it seems Audio Note PSU filter is different to other designs. Pure Power 3000+ spectrum shows some harmonics around 20khz and the Audio Note DAC 5 does not filter those harmonics completely. I will publish the spectrum if you need it.
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound.

1. I think Pure Power 3000+ is a wonderful Product but the Main AC quality affect it's sound.

2. different components has different PSU filter design and react different to AC quality.



the Pure Power 3000+ has a option to connect a huge battery bank to it. it may help for very bad days.
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good.
I have checked My system for ground Loop and there is no ground loop in my system and My PurePower 3000+ is 100% OK (it has no noise).

08-05-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,631
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1663
Post ID: 25536
Reply to: 25535
Amir, a few things…
First of all, if you have multiple of PP3000 then be advices that them connected in parallel substantially descries sound quality for each of them. Then might be use ONLY at different phases of some measures should be taken to decuple them by other means.
 Amir wrote:
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound. 
   
How methodologically you distinct the contribution to sound the come from regenerator vs the nastiness that come from power lines? I mean when the elasticity is very bad and you have the reported “harsh sound” then I presume that this harsh sound is caused by bad electricity. You feel that “Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound … harsh sound”, so why do you feel that it is the PP3000 the one that has less transparent sound if the harshness comes from power lines?  Did you developed any techniques to differentiate the PP3000’s own harsh sound from power lines harsh sound?
 Amir wrote:
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good. 

You absolutely should not do it. The topology of the digital regenerators like PP make them unstable and in fact dangers to be connected in series. The PP should warn the customers against doing it and in fact drop any warranties if somebody insist to use PP in this configuration. Hypothetically it is possible to use PP in series with an insolation transformer between them but then the measures should be taken to decuple then via ground, which brings own bad of the problems. Anyhow, I do recommend if you are not familiar with topological idiosyncrasies of series connecting of switched power supplies then do not connect PP in series.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-06-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 191
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1664
Post ID: 25537
Reply to: 25536
Romy Thanks
 Romy the Cat wrote:
First of all, if you have multiple of PP3000 then be advices that them connected in parallel substantially descries sound quality for each of them. Then might be use ONLY at different phases of some measures should be taken to decuple them by other means.
 Amir wrote:
the interesting thing is Pure Power 3000+ Sensitivity to AC quality. when the AC is good then the Pure Power has very smooth sound with great transparency and when the AC is not good the Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound with a-little (very minor) harsh sound. 
   
How methodologically you distinct the contribution to sound the come from regenerator vs the nastiness that come from power lines? I mean when the elasticity is very bad and you have the reported “harsh sound” then I presume that this harsh sound is caused by bad electricity. You feel that “Pure Power 3000+ has less transparent sound … harsh sound”, so why do you feel that it is the PP3000 the one that has less transparent sound if the harshness comes from power lines?  Did you developed any techniques to differentiate the PP3000’s own harsh sound from power lines harsh sound?
 Amir wrote:
I have used two Pure Power 3000+ in series but the result was not good. 

You absolutely should not do it. The topology of the digital regenerators like PP make them unstable and in fact dangers to be connected in series. The PP should warn the customers against doing it and in fact drop any warranties if somebody insist to use PP in this configuration. Hypothetically it is possible to use PP in series with an insolation transformer between them but then the measures should be taken to decuple then via ground, which brings own bad of the problems. Anyhow, I do recommend if you are not familiar with topological idiosyncrasies of series connecting of switched power supplies then do not connect PP in series.

yes, Parallel Pure Power 3000+ is not good. when one Pure Power 3000+ is connected to AC then there is more noise in home Line for example when the Pure Power 3000+ is connected to AC then my TV picture quality decrease a-little (the TV is not connected to Pure Power , TV is connected to other main sockets in my home).

Thank you for give warning about series PP3000+ . I do not use them in series.



I have Listened many times to my system without Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was good.
I have Listened many times to my system without Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was not good.I have listened many times to my system with Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was good.I have listened many times to my system with Pure Power 3000+ when the AC quality was not good.My ears is familiar with/without Pure Power 3000+ in good/bad electricity days.

the Pure Power 3000+ is also has a bypass switch but i do not use it because it does not work in my Silver PP3000+. My black PP3000+ bypass switch is OK and i had some tests with it but my main experience is not using bypass switch to detect the difference.
I had a long time for looking at effect of Pure Power on my system. i should say my judgment is related to my setup because different PSU react different to AC.



1. when the AC is not good (most of the time the AC in my apartment is not good , maybe because i live in a big complex that AC/ground is shared between many apartment) and the PP3000+ is not used then the sound is sick and the structure of sound is not right . both harmonic and dynamics are destroyed.

2. when the AC is good and the PP3000+ is not used then the sound is good but not perfect , you can listen more to music but the dynamics is not perfect and the transparency is not very high. you just have a smooth sound and you can listen for long period of time. your brain has no problem with sound.




3. when the AC is not good and i use the PP3000+ then the sound is better than direct AC but it is not perfect. it's not so relax and it is not so smooth. PP3000+ make the sound more dynamic with more resolution but the brain is not so relax in long time. when AC is bad the Pure Power can not fully make my brain relax for long listening sessions. I agree Pure Power 3000+ help to have better sound but it can not fully isolate me from AC. I think we can not judge the sound of PP3000+ when the AC is bad. I do not mean PP3000+ is harsh and i correct my pervious post , i mean the output sound is alittle harsh and it may not related to pp3000+.



4. when the AC is good and the PP3000+ is used then the sound is very very very good, I love it . both harmonic and dynamic is good. no other changes in the system (like changing components) could change the sound like PP3000+ .
the only thing that PP3000+ may could be improved is about midrange texture. maybe PP2000+ be better i do not know but the PP3000+ is not the ultimate in midrange texture. please do not mistake , the sound is so good and i just have a minor (very minor) critique about it's midrange.



My silver PP3000+ battery voltage is 82 volts not 72 volts.



08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 191
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1665
Post ID: 25543
Reply to: 25536
Three thing that degrade the sound when Pure Power is used
I think if you use Pure Power 3000+ it is better to use shorter power cables (2m is very good) . the bass and attacks are better with shorter Power cables. you should not have any ground loop in your system if you use Pure Power 3000+. it is very very important. ground loop degrades the sound easily and you will not have natural transparent upper mid and high frequncy.
It is very important to separate cables from each other . when there is more than 10cm distance between cables the sound is better.
08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 281
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1666
Post ID: 25544
Reply to: 25543
Sorry Amir, I just do not buy it
 Amir wrote:
I think if you use Pure Power 3000+ it is better to use shorter power cables (2m is very good) . the bass and attacks are better with shorter Power cables. you should not have any ground loop in your system if you use Pure Power 3000+. it is very very important. ground loop degrades the sound easily and you will not have natural transparent upper mid and high frequncy.
It is very important to separate cables from each other . when there is more than 10cm distance between cables the sound is better.

Amir, this sounds so much like audio dealer snake oil. I have really stopped taking your comments seriously.
To compare power cables, we have to have so many reference points established to prove that it is the length and not the method of attachment to the plugs. The electricity has to be „Identical“ for hours. The contact pressure has to be the same for each outlet and plug. Our musical memory has to be very stable.
We really do not need reports of voodoo or a last wet dream. If you want to be taken seriously, describe the test procedure and outcome of each test. What does „better bass“ mean in this context? Bass is mostly a room artifact. Bass is ULF, LF, midbass, upper bass. Attack is a couple of octaves higher. What changed where? What does better attack mean? 3dB more around 2K?
What improvement do you have after 10 cm?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-15-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,631
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1667
Post ID: 25545
Reply to: 25544
The voodoo or not the voodoo.
I do not defend Amir’s observations and I also do not take his comments seriously. I have no idea what he is taking about ground loop, not sure that he has an idea BUT I do agree that separation of power cables from each other after the generator can make difference. I would not say how to do it properly and what is “better” but I did observe that powers cables layout does impact sound in all together well done and perfectly calibrated playback. My own playback now does not go to the level of “perfection” what I could care to recognized the difference but there was time when I did observe this influence. Amir claims that over 10cm between the cable does make some improvement, highly possible. It would greatly depend from what kind power cables he uses and how the PS supplies are made in the devises tat the power cable connected.  Can we call it voodoo? Hm, not necessary. The PP generates over20kH pulses that care 50Hz main voltage. Let pretend that 5 loads are driven by PP. So, we have 5 transmission lines running more or less parallel and the do not run in the cables but in the electro-magnetic field around the cables. I presume that electro-magnetic between those 5 transmission lines might be auditable. You do not need to have “stable musical memory” or electricity to be stable over the hours. All the you need to do is somebody to move your cables while you do critical listening. Sometimes if it not effective, sometimes it does but if might be effective then it stops to be voodoo. My liquid isolated cables have no bass unless they sit undisturbed for a few days. Is it voodoo? Yes, it is, bit it is commonly acknowledged by the manufacturer and by anybody who ever used PAD cables. Cables are freaky. Who the hell would believe that digital cables might have different sound but we all know they do…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 191
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1668
Post ID: 25546
Reply to: 25544
This is not voodoo
 rowuk wrote:

We really do not need reports of voodoo or a last wet dream. If you want to be taken seriously, describe the test procedure and outcome of each test. What does „better bass“ mean in this context?

Rowuk
if you have Pure Power 3000 then you can do below test .
please buy two AC Power cable with very different length , for example 1.5m and 6m are different enough. connect them to your power amplifier for comparing those cables. please just do this test only when you use Pure Power 3000+.

you easily detect the shorter cable has better bass. it is not voodoo because i can easily hear difference of 2m AC cable and 4m AC cable.I think every thing that limits the slew rate of current delivery of system may limits the bass attack.


 Romy the Cat wrote:
It would greatly depend from what kind power cables he uses and how the PS supplies are made in the devises tat the power cable connected. 

My liquid isolated cables have no bass unless they sit undisturbed for a few days. Is it voodoo? Yes, it is, bit it is commonly acknowledged by the manufacturer and by anybody who ever used PAD cables. Cables are freaky. Who the hell would believe that digital cables might have different sound but we all know they do…

I use Purist Audio Neptune liquid AC Cables.


I think high end audio is a hard challenge, it is even harder than going to K2 mountain in winter :-))
the problem is that all things are important to have perfect sound because all things have effect on the sound.
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,205
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1669
Post ID: 25547
Reply to: 25546
The Objective Subjective: Theme and Variations
Well, if you can hear differences, that is a blessing and a curse because it's not only many particular things that influence the sound but different combinations of things, as well. In "the professional world" power source treatments are "matched" to power power supplies because there is basically no one size that best fits all. In the end, we make innumerable compromises and arrive at the "best" version of the sound we want for the minimum amount of time per day/week/month/year we will accept from our "solution".  Then, regardless of how "great" it sounded when we decided on it, we change things to explore our music presented differently.


Paul S
08-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 500
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1670
Post ID: 25548
Reply to: 25547
Match the system to be true to the source
 Amir wrote:
... because i can easily hear difference of 2m AC cable and 4m AC cable ... 
Yes, it's true. This reminds me of when I was testing different parts in an amplifier, and I was getting help from my father (this was about thirty years ago when he was still alive). At one point he declared: "Ok, that really improved the sound. There is a lot more bass. What did you do?" 

I had just happened to use a different AC cord when I plugged the amplifier back in, and I told him so. At that point, my father (who worked as an aerospace engineer for 40 years) declared it to be impossible, got up, and left the room.

So, I am of the opinion that most anyone can hear the differences. We just don't understand the physics of why it makes a difference. Just make sure you do it in a double blinded fashion, and be ready to accept that sometimes the less expensive fancy option will be better!
 Paul S wrote:
... we make innumerable compromises and arrive at the "best" version of the sound we want for the minimum amount of time per day/week/month/year we will accept from our "solution" ... 
Paul offers a astute view. How do we decide what the system should sound like? The problem is that different source material each represents a different recording technique, each of which requires different "correction" in reproduction to sound true to the original event.

Since we have many different recordings in our collections, there is a tendency to always change the system to change the "corrections" to match different source material. Because my wife is a professional musician, we have numerous recordings of her, many of which I did "live" at the events, so we tune the system to be as accurate as possible to what she actually sounds like. She is there to sing and play in the same room for comparison and is actively involved in deciding what changes in the system sound closer to reality. It's not perfect for all the other records in my collection, but it is a happy medium that has some semblance of objectivity.

Adrian
08-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 191
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1671
Post ID: 25549
Reply to: 25548
Change your speaker position and Repeat the test
 drdna wrote:


So, I am of the opinion that most anyone can hear the differences. We just don't understand the physics of why it makes a difference. Just make sure you do it in a double blinded fashion, and be ready to accept that sometimes the less expensive fancy option will be better!

Adrian

me and my friend had many blind tests to be sure our observation is not illusion. with blind eyes I ask my friend to let me listen to A for 5 minutes then B for 5 minutes and next My friend will demo one of them (A or B) and i should try to detect the next is A or B.I repeat this test more than 3 times. it is very clear that our ears could detect many things that physics could not explain it.

It is funny that sometimes we should listen to A and B in different places in the room or change the speaker position to repeat the test.
sometimes component A and B sounds similar and you may find A better than B in one place and B is better in another place.when you place your loudspeaker in a very very good place then changing the A to B may affect on the sound and you should change the speaker position to repeat the test. I mean if your speaker be optimised for component A then changing the component to B will change the best position of speaker and you should repeat the test after changing the speaker position.
changing speaker position or changing listener place will help to have a right judgment.


Page 84 of 84 (1,671 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 80 81 82 83 84
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  121575  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  Polarity checker, for convenience...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     7  72763  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  720496  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  199098  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  79011  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  118843  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  The Sound Obsessive List of DACs/Chips...  Didital Things  Forum     23  154136  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  57827  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  31497  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  56461  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  18932  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  11869  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Change your speaker position and Repeat the test...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1670  6733103  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  109183  10-24-2010
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