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  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  706235  05-23-2006
  »  New  How to paint Multicell horns?..  Hm, it works but I am not thrilled....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  26173  12-09-2010
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1141306  08-03-2007
  »  New  The Evolution of Honk...  Horn-loading and compression had no direct relativity t...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  19348  06-06-2010
  »  New  The Multicells HF Horns...  Construction plans of Altec 1505...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     9  81528  04-22-2005
  »  New  Open cell foam in horns and MF drivers..  Radian replacement for 2482...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     40  278264  01-25-2008
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  333718  12-22-2006
  »  New  JBL 2490 mid-range driver..  Any result of your experiments ?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     10  62019  01-01-2011
  »  New  Romy's Multi-cell Horns Where Are They?..  Love The Look...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  13011  08-17-2013
12-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 15264
Reply to: 15262
It is not about the honk noise but honk fog.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 zanon wrote:
My question is this -- in playback, how do you limit horn honk to just brass when there is no way to separate the instruments playing in an ensemble? Honk from strings for example sounds like crap.

You ask me as if I have claimed some success and state that I have done it. what you ask is the most complicated thing. I agree that honk (most of the time) on strings sounds like crap, honk on any percussion instruments sounds even worse. Ironically the horn on organ sounds excellent.  That why I think that the key are in very high precession injection but in a way that would not color the rest of sound.  My honky metal horn that I throw into mix sometime I use on the music like Arthur Wills’ The Vikings or most of the recording before 1953, where sound was a bit naturally honky itself in m view.

BTW, I personally am not a big fun of brass only music but if to go for it then I do prefer a very mind touch of semi-original honk. I do not call it “mind touch of honk” but rather I call it “smoky sound”. If that “smoky” sound played with enthusiasm then it might be a truly phenomenal thing. Pretend the Slavic Farewell played by 200 payers and you are just in front of them - it kicks your socks off, literally. I do not know if you know the work,  I was trying to find a good performance of the “Farewell” but there are none that I liked. Here is a crapy one:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XywSEhJ1mI

 zanon wrote:
There are many wonderful wonderful effects you can get from mass of horns. Tchaikovsky is a good example. I am also partial (sometimes) to Copeland where the mass of brass rips the very air apart. It is a wonderful sound when you are in the mood for it.

Actually the person who for me is an ultimate horn user is Richard Strauss - Strauss is an encyclopedia of horn sound! Going back to audio – I do think that it is possible. It is very hard if any possible to make a channel what would have all necessary things in one single cone. Still, with a dedicated honk channels is might be double. What we need is just need a prime that will set some kind of propoer insertion algorithm. BTW, to have special honk on brass is just a fraction of objectives. The most wonderful thing that the presence of mild honky fog does to woodwinds. That honky fog impacts woodwinds like colors accelerator. I love that Cognac smelling woodwinds…My Injection Channel does colors very well but it does nothing in honky direction. I need to look into it….

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-24-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 15273
Reply to: 15237
RE: Lower limit: S3 vs S2 into multi-cell
fiogf49gjkf0d

If you think that Jews on Christmas only abuse Chinese food and watch endless movies then think again. Since obnoxious stolen Christians my beloved Christmas tree a few years back some of the Jews torture compression drivers during Christmas’ everything is closed.

What I did was figuring out I might to use my Vitavox lower then it is. I removed the phase plug from the driver and opened up back chamber.  The diaphragm I used was with plastic clear surround (not white surround). The free air resonance dropped to 320Hz, I estimate that in the horn it will be around 250Hz but I did not measure it. What I did measure is response from listening position:

Vitavox_S3_NoPhase_OpenBack.GIF 

It is already something and horn do begin to demonstrate some sighs of overloading with bass, but not the type of the overloading that I would like to hear. If we set reference point at this response at 84dB then -3db will be at 300Hz. Not bad but I would like to have something different. Instead of having 2dB peak at the bottom I would like the driver to be flat in there but to go another 70-100Hz lower. I do not think this driver would do it….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-25-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 23
Post ID: 15280
Reply to: 15273
Some sanity check with alternative Fundamental Channel.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 I set two multicells with LF-enabled S3 drivers. I set them on the outer side of Macondo MF.  Playing with crossover, volume and towing of the multicells I was able to a degree to get the effect that would like to get. The pointing the multicells not to the listing position but slightly toward the side wall turned out to be the most effective. I was not able to get any good honk however.

The result that I got made me to think if I truly need an additional semi-side firing Fundamental Channel. Yes, if I were able to painfully substitute my current 250Hz tractrix to 183Hz multicells then I would do it but it looks like it would be too long for Macondo current frame.  To use the multicells as a separate channel to moderate presentational width and possible moderate useful honk is a good conceptual experiment but do I really need it for listening?

 Am a bit not comfortable that I becoming hostage of the fact that I can do it and my possibility to render interesting things in audio drives my project instead of my need to have the projects done.  For all intended purposes the Macondo width is fine as is. In fact last neigh I figured out that the width problem that I noted before came from the improperly bass producing  by PP2000 regenerator, switching PP2000 back to battery give me my width back. So, this week PurePower will hopeful address the problem, do I need my side-shooting multicells?

Well, the side-shooting multicells do some interesting thing regardless what but is it necessary for listening or is it necessary for pure audio objectives? I personally feel that it will be pure audio tricks as Macondo sounds fine “as is” and I experience no deficiency or need for sideways moderation. I might change my mind as I get my PP2000 and will recover my sound in full  but for now I will put the further experiment on hold until I get a feeling that I need any hold from my 183Hz multicells.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Rewind
Posts 19
Joined on 04-15-2013

Post #: 24
Post ID: 20249
Reply to: 15280
Horn suggestions for 300Hz-1000Hz channel
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is a shame that I keep finding threads about a 300Hz compression driver channel, that ends abruptly. I have been trying with a not-so-exact Goto S-150 replica (~1.7m deep, 75cm diameter mouth), and I know of another fellow in Sweden who tried the JMLC-200T. Quite different horns, but similar too. We both thought the sound image was too far ahead and the horn sounded sharp. The sound was "too much", in a way.

I ended up cutting the horn to 1.1 meter and fitting a SABA 8" fullrange as a temporary solution. It just does 180Hz-1000Hz okay, but I push it down to 95Hz-600hz with a big hole in lower midrange as a result. The need for a very large lower midrange horn for the band 70-340Hz is evident, but that is another story.

The guy with the JMLC-200T is selling it now, and he reverted back to his multi-cells. Hence my sudden interest of multicells.

I do not agree that it sounds just fine without a compression driver down to 300Hz. Sometimes I want to play around with the detail this channel would add. What I don't want to live with is the weird artifacts from the large round horn I tried before. And I don't believe another large round horn will solve anything, even if the horn was based on long JMLC Excel calculations.

Suggestions? Experiences?

My plan is:
True ribbons: 10khz-30kHz
Compression driver with small avantgarde trio tweeter horn: 4000-10 000Hz
Compression driver: upper mids horn 700-4000Hz
Compression driver: mids horn multicell/JMLC-200T/IWATA??? 340-700Hz
JBL 12" in a 3 meter x 1.2 meter round horn: 70-340Hz
Subwoofer: 25-70Hz

Page 2 of 2 (24 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  706235  05-23-2006
  »  New  How to paint Multicell horns?..  Hm, it works but I am not thrilled....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  26173  12-09-2010
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1141306  08-03-2007
  »  New  The Evolution of Honk...  Horn-loading and compression had no direct relativity t...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  19348  06-06-2010
  »  New  The Multicells HF Horns...  Construction plans of Altec 1505...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     9  81528  04-22-2005
  »  New  Open cell foam in horns and MF drivers..  Radian replacement for 2482...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     40  278264  01-25-2008
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  333718  12-22-2006
  »  New  JBL 2490 mid-range driver..  Any result of your experiments ?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     10  62019  01-01-2011
  »  New  Romy's Multi-cell Horns Where Are They?..  Love The Look...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  13011  08-17-2013
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