| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Analog Playback» Ultimate Turntable (207 posts, 11 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 11 of 11 (207 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 7 8 9 10 11
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  Pre-manufactured box speaker...  Audio News Forum     54  455605  01-21-2006
  »  New  The Foolishness of Analog People..  Late to the discussion but cannot resist...  Analog Playback Forum     56  426107  01-30-2006
  »  New   A longer turntable belt...  SP10 and the Japanese contribution to audio...  Analog Playback Forum     60  386293  02-02-2006
  »  New  My Analog Playback: the fat lady has sung..  My analog setup update....  Analog Playback Forum     9  88164  04-04-2006
  »  New  Micro Seiki SZ-1T..  I guess it's my own fault....  Analog Playback Forum     2  26252  06-10-2008
  »  New  Dynamic viscose stabilization of turntable’s platter...  Will not work...  Analog Playback Forum     14  77571  11-26-2008
  »  New  Active Tonearm Monitoring System...  The most idiotic idea I’ve ever seen...  Analog Playback Forum     2  26219  07-14-2009
  »  New  The HoroMusic turnable...  And the 27" long tonearm might be a Moronic as thi...  Analog Playback Forum     6  48372  08-05-2009
  »  New  Audio Note new turntable and inflation..  Audio Note Ginga Turntable...  Analog Playback Forum     14  107806  01-03-2010
  »  New  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?..  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  12968  03-13-2010
  »  New  A turntable platter as a turbine?..  A turntable platter as a turbine?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  10241  10-27-2010
05-14-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 165
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 201
Post ID: 25423
Reply to: 25422
About the price.
In the audiophile market the advertised price is usually far from the street price (usually 20% off of it), and the price the retailer pay to the manufacture is often the street price with 40% off. So, one probably could buy that turntable for less than 240.000€ if he/she buy that FOB directly from TechDAS (shipping costs by sea would be negligible); however that is a Japanese product and they often are advertised for a fraction of the price in Japan in relation to the Western, and so I would not be surprised if someone managed to get that by 50K€ or less. ;-)

Btw, this German guy seems to also be following the Seiko style:




Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
05-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,617
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 202
Post ID: 25428
Reply to: 25422
Curing the audio itch....
 Stitch wrote:
Is there a definition of "sound like shit"?
Stitch, this is VERY good question. I think the answer in the eye of beholder. I know two guys who own or use to own TechDas 1. One did not like it and he before it use to have some smaller Micr, I think it was RX2000, I have no idea what he did with it. Another also very aggressively did not like it. He owed any TT you ever heard of and he is one of the few guys who do not mind to call “crap” the things that he have paid a lot of money. It is possible however that "sound like shit" was my own colloquialism and they did not tell me like that. I do recall a very negative feedback and in my mind if a TT (or any other audio devise) cost as much and being sold as some kind of messianic item then any negative aspect of the devise performance putting the devise into  "sound like shit" category. If you hire a wall painter who do not charge $15 but let say $1250 per hour and the painter does not know how to let say edge walls then do you need more talking about the qualification of that painter? If the painter bills you $30 or $50 per hour then you could debate if he is good or bad painter, but as the painter’s bill you $1250 per hour then all bets are off, for this extraordinary money the professional should be able to delivery extraordinary performance. The top of the line TechDas turntable based upon the feedback I got did not deliver not only extraordinary performance but filed in comprising with much less ambition TTs (again, reportedly). Does it make it to sound “like shit”? I do not know. 
     
Honestly I got kind of tired to debunk stupid ideas in audio. The whole notion of high-end audio implied high quality of performance and it has nothing to do with technologies, prices and the rest of the crap that we all look like love to worship in audio. Would a TT that “sounds like shit” deserve to have attention by the people who practice high-end audio objectives? Does the sexy look and high price to qualify the TechDas One to be high-end audio turntable? You answer this question to yourself.   
 
We have in audio absolutely wrong way to communicate with our inner ourselves, the stupid audio media have vandalized it in us. We do not communicate our need but we instead communicate your remedies for discomfort and frustrations. I do not understand why TT are being produced by audio companies. Any person can go to eBay and buy for $2K-$3K a 40 years old Micro 5000 that will deliver a superb performance that will last to the rest of a listener’s life. Why turntables are being made after the RX5000 was made? Why some kind of company take the RX5000, mass-produce it, driving the cost to sub $500, and close the audio people itch with turntables to the rest of humanity existence….


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,182
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 203
Post ID: 25430
Reply to: 25428
Engineering Solutions
The way the "spec sheets" on high end items read tell something about the approach taken by the "manufacturer". Often they approach designing something difficult, like a turntable, as a series of obstacles to be overcome, so the project winds up first breaking the thing down into bits, then coming up with "solutions" for each bit (such as "friction", concentricity, etc., etc.), then assembling the TT from the "perfected" bits. This done, how could it not sound good?  Of course, there are other approaches, such as association with race car drivers, astronauts, astro-physicists, etc., or perhaps just "keeping up a front" of "upscale exclusivity", a la the Trump Resorts.


Paul S
05-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 268
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 204
Post ID: 25432
Reply to: 25430
Compare to automobile industry
We generally accept that Mercedes Benz builds good cars. Several years ago, they invented the A class series and the German press was all excited - until a scandinavian review performed an “elk test”, a fast series of turns and braking to keep from hitting the animal. The Mercedes flipped over - so much for good handling. What did Mercedes do? They did not fix the suspension, rather they added ABS.
The moral of the story was not building cars that were innately safe, rather building electronic systems to compensate for bad mechanical engineering. This is not a new concept. Photoshop helps get usable pictures from shitty photographs, our airplanes are fly by wire with electronics to smooth out pre calculated pilot errors, we have laws against abortion but let rich white kids get off with rape.
Turntables are actually not that hard. We used to have decent ones for a couple of hundred dollars. Gear fetish is destroying the honest attempts. The hard part is the tone arm and cartridge but good engineering could solve this.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,182
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 205
Post ID: 25434
Reply to: 25432
Tolerable Tolerances
The thing with building turntables is, if you use a stethoscope and your ears, there is some "serious" machining involved that requires not only expensive, complicated machine tools, but people who know how to use them. Generally, this stuff is not handled directly by the "manufacturer"/developer of the TT, and the costs tend to mount as something like a "serious" TT is developed.  I think what we are looking at with TechDas (and most others) is more usual for a "high end" product, where the "designers" might be at least as interested in marketing, so they are at least as concerned with "marketable" "features" as actual sonic performance.  Another approach might be the "constant development" TT that "keeps changing for the better".  I keep looking back to Brinkmann, who is himself a machinist. Not that this is any guaranty of good sound, but it does seem like it is a "more likely scenario". Whatever the initial approach, "tangential" ideas tend to overwhelm "basic sensibilities", running up costs and prices without really adding anything really worthwhile to quality of sound reproduction


Paul S
05-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 268
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 206
Post ID: 25436
Reply to: 25434
Machining is no big deal anymore
Actually, if we use a stethoscope and our ears, we buy standard precision bearings, motors and control electronics. All quite affordable. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. If we look at an old Thorens TD160, how much more engineering does the average audiophile need? Well the TD1600 looks like it will be $3000. When do we reach the point that the original pressing has worse wow, flutter and noise floor? I think that the crapshoot is the tone arm because it has to work with a resonant cartridge that may even be weather and temperature dependent. How much new engineering have we seen? I can’t think of any related to turntables.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,182
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 207
Post ID: 25437
Reply to: 25436
Parts vs. Application vs. Incentive
No, machining still requires expensive machinery and some chops, and further it needs to be a coherent part of a pre-engineered whole. It really isn't like one can find the parts on shelves, assemble them, and wind up with something sonically viable, let alone do it for pocket change. The TD160 is a long way from the worst bearing, but the platter is something else, like my old Rek-O-Kut.  And sure, the arm is important, too, also something that one does not make in the garage.  Not like these problems can't be solved, rather there's not financial incentive to do it, mostly due to lack of demand for good sounding stuff in the first place. I mean, why bother?

Paul S


 
Page 11 of 11 (207 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 7 8 9 10 11
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  Pre-manufactured box speaker...  Audio News Forum     54  455605  01-21-2006
  »  New  The Foolishness of Analog People..  Late to the discussion but cannot resist...  Analog Playback Forum     56  426107  01-30-2006
  »  New   A longer turntable belt...  SP10 and the Japanese contribution to audio...  Analog Playback Forum     60  386293  02-02-2006
  »  New  My Analog Playback: the fat lady has sung..  My analog setup update....  Analog Playback Forum     9  88164  04-04-2006
  »  New  Micro Seiki SZ-1T..  I guess it's my own fault....  Analog Playback Forum     2  26252  06-10-2008
  »  New  Dynamic viscose stabilization of turntable’s platter...  Will not work...  Analog Playback Forum     14  77571  11-26-2008
  »  New  Active Tonearm Monitoring System...  The most idiotic idea I’ve ever seen...  Analog Playback Forum     2  26219  07-14-2009
  »  New  The HoroMusic turnable...  And the 27" long tonearm might be a Moronic as thi...  Analog Playback Forum     6  48372  08-05-2009
  »  New  Audio Note new turntable and inflation..  Audio Note Ginga Turntable...  Analog Playback Forum     14  107806  01-03-2010
  »  New  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?..  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  12968  03-13-2010
  »  New  A turntable platter as a turbine?..  A turntable platter as a turbine?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  10241  10-27-2010
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts