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11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 1
Post ID: 8910
Reply to: 8910
Alessandro Baricco's "Lesson 21" or the challenge of Music and Movie
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://twogoodears.blogspot.com/2008/11/alessandro-bariccos-lesson-21-or.html

I strongly, definitely invite everyone loving Music and Beethoven's 9th Symphony, to go and see this very film... it's a challenge, it's Kurosawa and Greenaway... Alessandro Baricco, italian novelist - screeplay is taken from his recent novel - and film-director, made it.

Only an obscure, superb movie, "Yuri", some years ago, was on same par in combining lightness and deepness of mysterious music & movie blending.

Give a try... satisfaction guaranteed.

 


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 8911
Reply to: 8910
Interesting....
fiogf49gjkf0d

Interesting!

I like good movies about music; good movies are rare commodities. Donde Io poddo compra il DVD, Io no posso ver in internet con Inglese subtitolo?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 3
Post ID: 8912
Reply to: 8911
DVD exotica;-)
fiogf49gjkf0d
... it sure will be available in multi-language DVD format in the next months, Roman, after a short run in cinemas, like these days... but well worth waiting for it... I'll also will keep my eyes open on it!
Will try to inform you and everyone willing in taking  a chance on this exotic stuff.


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 8913
Reply to: 8912
The Harvard Film Archive Cinematheque
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks, if it is an interesting and worthy film and if happen it will not t be able with English subtitle then I most likely still will be able to catch in Boston. Here in Boston we have our “Harvard Film Archive Cinematheque”. The Harvard Film Archive is a film demonstration facility where they run only films that have serious artistic values, not the pop-crap that runs in movie theaters

http://hcl.harvard.edu/hfa/

Some of the catches I got in HFA were absolutely stunning. I do not see the "Lesson 21" in this Calendar for December but it might show up sometimes during the winter. If it is a good file then the HFA would not miss it – they relay know what they do and we in Boston are lucky to have them around.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 5
Post ID: 8914
Reply to: 8912
More film about Music
fiogf49gjkf0d
Is anyone still remembering the great, little "32 short films about Glenn Gould"? http://www.amazon.com/Short-Films-About-Glenn-Gould/dp/B0000027C4
It's another of the few, rare movies which "try" to talk about the ineffable in Music, composing and playing...
I still fondly remember it since I saw in a semi-desert cinema last late evening shot, years ago... maybe worth a try for who didn't saw it.


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 6
Post ID: 8915
Reply to: 8914
HFA's Calendar
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks for the link, Roman... I'd attend con gusto to Dec. 4th "The Belly of an Architect"... Nyman's OST at his best... and a quite intriguing movie.

Try to catch "Yuri" in HFA's cinetheque catalog... it's Master and Student relationship and Music, Music, Music... a superb, unknown movie.


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 8917
Reply to: 8915
Films and Music
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yep, the “32 short films about Glenn Gould” was a wonderful film, a classic how the films about musicians shell be done.
It is interesting that there are very few good films about music and there are very moments where cinematograph works “right” with music. I can recall literally a few moments where visual and woundable was working together “really good”; I would hardly name a whole film but just very short episodes. I remember in “Art of Piano” there was a short episode where Alfred Cortot at his late 80s was teaching his student. His play, his face and with his commentaries were like nothing else. (You must have a translation and to follow his every word, and at the very righ time)

Another interesting moment that I can recall now (listening Du Pre’s Beethoven sonatas) was in “Hilary and Jackie”. The film is very much controversial but there was a moment in there worth the price of whole admission. When Jacqueline was torched by multiple sclerosis attack and her mind was submerging into the drain of her memories there was a moment in there when the camera fast-descending into a black hole of Du Pre’s fantasies. That descends was “orchestrated” by Du Pre’s unparallel play of Elgar’s Cello concerto… You can’t mix visual and musical expressively with more effectiveness then that

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-22-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 8
Post ID: 8931
Reply to: 8917
Soundtracks and music for films... any difference?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I've been an avid original soundtracks and film music collector for most of my life, and still I didn't find the PERFECT music for a movie... the classic, Alfred Newman's, Rozsa's, Hermann's, Williams', Horner's... them all did a superb job combined with director work, but IMO what really make a film & music connection is when, too seldom, music hints instead shouting at the audience... Nyman's the master, also Jocelyn Pook in Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" and Laurent Petigand in Wim Wenders' "The Wings of Desire"... isn't a case great music comes from almost unknown composers... the director usually got trapped in some obscure music by chance and this very casual attitude is as mysterious as love and gives to these quite common practice an STP-like character and special quality.
Sometimes music for films is still composed in an old-timey fashion - i.e. musicians are exposed to several views of film itself to absorb the moods, images, the message the director wished to give, etc.
It's like an accelerated exposure to emotions and life which is always behind a melody or a tune... after a sunset or a travel or... well, you got the idea... the process - being a job - is only someway forced.
A fascination... and a miracle if something special stands the abuse.
... then we have the skillfull Hollywood's soundtracks composers... they're clever artisans, the "know" how get tears in audience at the proper, right moment... like pressing an "ON/OFF" switch... well, they produce soundtracks.
... but what I tried to suggest above... it's different. It's true, unique, magic... it's music for films.         


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-22-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 8935
Reply to: 8931
The cinematic imagination.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 twogoodears wrote:
I've been an avid original soundtracks and film music collector for most of my life, and still I didn't find the PERFECT music for a movie... the classic, Alfred Newman's, Rozsa's, Hermann's, Williams', Horner's... them all did a superb job combined with director work, but IMO what really make a film & music connection is when, too seldom, music hints instead shouting at the audience... Nyman's the master, also Jocelyn Pook in Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" and Laurent Petigand in Wim Wenders' "The Wings of Desire"... isn't a case great music comes from almost unknown composers... the director usually got trapped in some obscure music by chance and this very casual attitude is as mysterious as love and gives to these quite common practice an STP-like character and special quality.
Sometimes music for films is still composed in an old-timey fashion - i.e. musicians are exposed to several views of film itself to absorb the moods, images, the message the director wished to give, etc.
It's like an accelerated exposure to emotions and life which is always behind a melody or a tune... after a sunset or a travel or... well, you got the idea... the process - being a job - is only someway forced.
A fascination... and a miracle if something special stands the abuse.
... then we have the skillfull Hollywood's soundtracks composers... they're clever artisans, the "know" how get tears in audience at the proper, right moment... like pressing an "ON/OFF" switch... well, they produce soundtracks.
... but what I tried to suggest above... it's different. It's true, unique, magic... it's music for films.         

Hm, it is interesting.

My “maiden profession” or something that I call the “trade from the times of innocence” was a photographer and I was very much “in tune” to think by visual images. In some occasions, completely consciously (almost like a game) I develop in my head metal visual images that represent music that I hear. In some instances they are not the metaphoric static images but rather the fragments of a virtual film that I would shoot. In some instances those fragments are purely my own script and my own “film” and in some instances they are the most beloved by me cinematic moments from the existing films. What is always very my own is the application of the specific music to the specific cinematic episode of my mind. In some occasions I take it too far and my very precise demand for musical equivalency of my cinematic ideas actually begin to dictate how I would like to have the given piece of music to sound. In fact it is not “too far” but rather exactly where it needs to be in my view (the concept of recomposition that I multiple times mentioned elsewhere) but it is a subject of other conversation.

Anyhow, why I mention it is that if I found a “right” cinematic-musical match (in my mind) with very good grip how cinematic and musical part shell be arranged then I practically always discover that my “perfect match” appears to me too cheesy and too artificial in time. I do not know if cheesy and artificial are right words, I do not know right words. It might be perfect for very short 1-3-5 second episode but then cinematic perception is going on and it has kind of different dynamics then musical perception.  I really respect what people are able to do it, I do not think I can. From what you say this Alessandro Baricco might find a way to maintain the visual and soundable in one abstract substance. It might be very interning if he can do it in duration of the whole film. The longest I have seen and was praying that I shell never stopped was in the mentioned by you Glenn Gould’s film, where they showed the kaleidoscope-like mosaic accompanied the Gould’s Bach partitas. BTW, in some instances good dancing do it to me but it must be only VERY good dancing and it is very had to get by, much more difficult then a cinematic sequence.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-23-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 10
Post ID: 8940
Reply to: 8935
Music, movie and dancing
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

 twogoodears wrote:
I've been an avid original soundtracks and film music collector for most of my life, and still I didn't find the PERFECT music for a movie... the classic, Alfred Newman's, Rozsa's, Hermann's, Williams', Horner's... them all did a superb job combined with director work, but IMO what really make a film & music connection is when, too seldom, music hints instead shouting at the audience... Nyman's the master, also Jocelyn Pook in Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" and Laurent Petigand in Wim Wenders' "The Wings of Desire"... isn't a case great music comes from almost unknown composers... the director usually got trapped in some obscure music by chance and this very casual attitude is as mysterious as love and gives to these quite common practice an STP-like character and special quality.
Sometimes music for films is still composed in an old-timey fashion - i.e. musicians are exposed to several views of film itself to absorb the moods, images, the message the director wished to give, etc.
It's like an accelerated exposure to emotions and life which is always behind a melody or a tune... after a sunset or a travel or... well, you got the idea... the process - being a job - is only someway forced.
A fascination... and a miracle if something special stands the abuse.
... then we have the skillfull Hollywood's soundtracks composers... they're clever artisans, the "know" how get tears in audience at the proper, right moment... like pressing an "ON/OFF" switch... well, they produce soundtracks.
... but what I tried to suggest above... it's different. It's true, unique, magic... it's music for films.         


Anyhow, why I mention it is that if I found a “right” cinematic-musical match (in my mind) with very good grip how cinematic and musical part shell be arranged then I practically always discover that my “perfect match” appears to me too cheesy and too artificial in time. I do not know if cheesy and artificial are right words, I do not know right words. It might be perfect for very short 1-3-5 second episode but then cinematic perception is going on and it has kind of different dynamics then musical perception.  I really respect what people are able to do it, I do not think I can. From what you say this Alessandro Baricco might find a way to maintain the visual and soundable in one abstract substance. It might be very interning if he can do it in duration of the whole film. The longest I have seen and was praying that I shell never stopped was in the mentioned by you Glenn Gould’s film, where they showed the kaleidoscope-like mosaic accompanied the Gould’s Bach partitas. BTW, in some instances good dancing do it to me but it must be only VERY good dancing and it is very had to get by, much more difficult then a cinematic sequence.

The caT


Well said, Roman, indeed.
That's what happen to me, as well. Images, quick and static, colours, not shapes in space... more Turner-like, than Kandinsky's... non-sense scenes, like the strange, nice mini-movie I saw somewhere in yr. site (the one with capsule from outer-space and astronauts in a desert)... scenes like this, are produced in my mind with some deep music listening sessions. I remember Bach's unaccompanied Cello sonatas seen like numbers of different colours and size in space... oooops: loving maths through music?
Rene Aubry and Carolyn Carson were magic in dancing/music almost PERFECT, better right for the moment, matching.
... also Meredith Monk's music creted special, haunting blends, like Robert Een's or Laurie Andreson's or David Van Tieghem's.
That's why no dope is needed... Music is enough!
;-)





"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-23-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,287
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 8941
Reply to: 8940
The visual experiences and associative practice.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 twogoodears wrote:
I remember Bach's unaccompanied Cello sonatas seen like numbers of different colours and size in space... oooops: loving maths through music?

Interning, I do not Bach's Cello sonatas but it I would then I see them rather as making a sweater. The making uses many dozen threads of different color of wool. All those rolls of different colors, density, saturation and fussiness of wool are erratically spread around the room (and Cat grads them) but they all feed into one experienced knitter who do all that magic to orange the raw material into the organized patterns of sweater texture.

 twogoodears wrote:

Rene Aubry and Carolyn Carson were magic in dancing/music almost PERFECT, better right for the moment, matching.... also Meredith Monk's music creted special, haunting blends, like Robert Een's or Laurie Andreson's or David Van Tieghem's.

I am not familiar with them. What I was taking about “dancing” I mean something like this.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3gyld3g1zvk

http://www.mediafire.com/?b4xnxbnzwk9

I it is unarguable that after getting THIS visual experience the Swan Lake’s music will have slightly different associative value.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-24-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 12
Post ID: 8952
Reply to: 8941
Jurji by Stefano Gabrini - 2001
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.mymovies.it/dizionario/recensione.asp?id=33758

Roman... here is a link to Gabrini's movie I previously quoted... I mispelled the title, so here is the correct one... TRULY worth some investigating on yr. part... I apologize, but only found an italian (in italian, as well;-)) link.

Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the Beat poet wrote about this movie: "Gabrini's Jurji gave to me the Vision"... to me too, Lawrence!

Re. "dancing"... OK, Roman, I got your idea of dancing... I attended to a nice Swan Lake's ballett at wonderful Marinsky Theater in St. Petersburg, some years ago, and I loved... but, pls forgive me, life goes on and more masterpieces, (maybe) the future classics, are danced and played in theaters worldwide... Carlson's, Bejart's and others are what come to mind...
... but I respect your tastes, of course.

Try to find (and see) "Jurji"... you'll like it.
  


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-24-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 13
Post ID: 8953
Reply to: 8952
Jurij - a movie directed by Stefano Gabrini - 2001, with the correct spelling
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.film.com/movies/jurij/14704651... it seems I can't write it right;-)
This too short synopsis is in English.



"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
11-03-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 112
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 14
Post ID: 17314
Reply to: 8953
Alessandro Baricco did it, again!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Alessandro Baricco, the italian writer, during a (cool, snobbish, culturally provoking and enriching) TV program, "Chetempochefa" conducted by Fabio Fazio, he captured every Man of Good-will's attention with a "letio magistralis" about... you'd bet it?!?! Music and other arts relationship... he ended up in comparing, only apparently weirdly, Handel and (Japanese painter) Hokusai, both living in same times, also if so culturally far away as Earth and Mars  - the Japanese artist, i.e. the man behind "The Wave" and other masterpieces of simple paint brush and great feeling and atmosphere was the same Zen hyconoclast;-) who painted with an huge brush a small river on paper, waves and all and then took a chacked and after putting its feets in the red paint, he leave it to freely steps the river pale blue painting... he titled the painting: "Red maple-leaves on the river"... a genius!   

Only few hours after the nice Handel's vs. Hokusai essay, Baricco's Facebook page was flooded by dozens appreciations ALL, AAALLL coming from ladies in-love... as Alessandro Baricco is an handsome gentleman I found nothing wrong he ONLY received compliments for his voice, look, his sweater, his cool, understated appearance and so on... BUT, nobody, the several ladies or the two or three guys who also wrote about that... no one didn't comment the so nice hinting to the interaction of aural and visual...

On my part, I felt the sincere, moving love for the ears and eyes interaction which also passed throught the TV-set, usually quite littering our life;-) - so a moment of beauty and ineffable, thanking Baricco's words.

The above reminds me the following: about one year ago, I put on a wall in my (once new) little studio, facing the listening position, a nice oil-on-canvas, a Turner-like vision painted by a local artist, the interpretation of the sea at dawn... and, wow, to my surprise, almost everytime I listen to some specific music, "something" clicks and I loose myself in the brush strokes, the details and, like while looking at the clouds, while lazily walking in springtime, the eyes - sort-of - "see" differently depending on the music played.

Nothing new under the sun, but still mysterious stuff I'm never tired of...
      


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
Page 1 of 1 (14 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The Yevgeny Mravinsky Film..  Mravinsky biography book....  Musical Discussions  Forum     9  40502  04-29-2006
  »  New  Film about Jacqueline du Pre...  Barbirolli, Barbirolli, Barbirolli…....  Musical Discussions  Forum     5  25971  11-02-2006
  »  New  Classic Artc Showcase Streaming..  The American Nutcracker – the “The Hard Hut”...  Musical Discussions  Forum     12  46506  03-06-2007
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