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Audio Discussions
Topic: Some evidence for the change in sound of a submerged conductor.

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Posted by Edgar= on 10-22-2022

Here are two links to videos demonstrating experiments in the speed of electricity.

The first shows how a portion of flow is instantaneous and the rest at the speed of light. Measured with a really quick scope and a 1000m loop of wire.

I thought it demonstrates well how there is an interaction of the electrons happening outside of the wire.

The second video shows how submerging a wire in liquid slows the speed of electricity.

Felt it all relevant enough to post here. It certainly stimulated my thought on these types of cables.

EDIT: I intended to post this in the Purist Audio Design thread but ot it wrong. Apologies for the new thread!

All the best,

Posted by Romy the Cat on 10-22-2022
Edgar, they are VERY interesting videos and with your permissions I would like to keep it as separate thread. It well worth it.

Posted by Edgar= on 10-23-2022
Please do.

Posted by Edgar= on 11-22-2022
I have been thinking about this video and am now seeing another cut on the shear magnitude of what Brian has demonstrated here. I mean, this guy has just crushed Newton under his own apple! Smashed him to pieces, made apple sauce of him if you will and that is no insignificant thing. 
I know this probably sounds like this clown Edgar and what is he carrying on about now? But seriously, Brian just showed us that the universe works instantaneously. Yes, it is not just action at a distance like Newton and his lovers says it, but there is also INSTANTANEOUS action REGARDLESS of distance. Holy Moly! Thank you Brian.
I mean far out, no small thing to evidence, no small thing at all. I post the link here for audio relevance which I will get to, but the significance of the metaphysical relevance of Brians demonstration is mind blowing. 

I know I posted here in reference to cables but audio wise I am more wondering if this has something to do with FM spookyness. FM spookyness to me, feels a bit like the same spookyness of no feedback amplifiers, as in it feels like a phenomena of time/phase. I haven't heard submerged cables but i wonder for those who have are they spooky like that? Do they add magic like FM spookyness can or is it a different effect on sound?

With FM there is no conductor so are we just hearing the instantaneous part of the signal? It's kind of a rhetorical question as everyone will jump to say don't be silly with 100 reasons why that is a nonsense statement and question. But is it such a nonsense question in the wake of the evidence of Brians demonstration? 


Posted by Paul S on 11-22-2022
Great Stuff!!! Rupert Sheldrake and his ilk did similar experiments years ago, where iron ws put into plankton laden seawater, and tlankton at another, far-away boat registered the iron instantly. So much for the "drag" of water. Not sure all this stuff continues as the Earth curves and atmosphere and gravity come into play. But fascinating, to be sure. My experience with FM is that it typically takes "a while" to arrive (in the "Real World").

Paul S

Posted by N-set on 11-23-2022
Edgar, there is a part of the field that travels directly through the air from the source to the receiver and the other part that travels along the wire. What seems "instantaneous" is the in reality a very very short but finite time that the light needs to travel a small direct distance. Don't forget that the theory of relativity was born by studying Maxwell equations, describing the propagation of the electromagnetic field.

Posted by Edgar= on 11-23-2022
Thanks N-set, yes I see your point. I remember now that Brian said how photons carry the information to tell the electrons where they are with respect to each other, so it is at the speed of light, and not instantaneous, of course. Whoops, looks like I'm the one covered in apple sauce. Iv'e cooled down now. Thank you.

So maybe FM spookyness (for lack of a better term) is a function of no conductor more than the speed of the transmission? Or some other factor of course. Who knows, It is a wild speculation on my behalf but it does seem like a glaring point of difference. If there is no conductor (as in wire) for the FM part of the transmission then there is no capacitance and no resistance to AC there (I think, correct me if I am wrong). With no resistance to AC there will be no suppression of harmonics as apposed to any wired circuit which will have capacitance, and therefore limited harmonic ability. And I mean harmonics all the way up to light speed not just what we hear with our ears. My suspicion is spookyness or magic or "it" happens when something specific is happening in the upper harmonics, when they are not corrupted and maintain their order and can keep building up and up. I find sometimes with galvanic isolation it can have "it". I wonder if a similar phenomena is happening when the signal is in its magnetic phase. The harmonics are free to build up and up, unimpeded by capacitance.

Hey Paul, I was wondering about that real world delay because I have heard it too but assumed the station did that deliberately as part of its process. But I know now as N-set points out the actual wave propagation from the transmitter is light speed. I suppose slower when you add atmospheric conditions like you mention, humidity etc.


Posted by Paul S on 11-23-2022
Edgar, not sure how long you've been at FM, but there is an FM board here at GSC that sould give you some food for thought. As ever, some things stay the same, and other things have changed. For instance, analog has changed to digital, but the weirdness remains! Another cool thing that remains is that FM magic can be heard and appreciated through "the right speakers"! Not sure if/how FM-type frequency modulation would translate to speaker design, but I'd love to hear a salient exposition!

Best regards,
Paul S

Posted by N-set on 11-24-2022
I'd rather look for the FM magic, which I love and adore, in the modulation/demodulation process than physical field propagation. Perhaps FM process creates a stable, ~1/n harmonic spectrum like a triode?

Posted by Paul S on 11-24-2022
I long suppposed the whole thing hinged on a sort of dither effect, like the PurePower thingee.  And I think this is at least some of what happens with "injection channels", including the root concept of what we are actually discussing in this thread. I mean, listen to Romy's very dry description of the sound of the Tannoy Red. Who wants to listen to that? Having heard plenty of Tannoys over the yers, I would not have been so critical; but neither did I ever settle on one as a sole/primary speaker for my "big system", and clearly, Romy feels more or less the same, as far as that goes, anyway. However... using something as dither can be like taking a little arsenic. whether amp circuits, FM, or loudspeakers.

Paul S

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