GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site

Audio Discussions
Topic: Job of the concert hall?

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Posted by Klausner on 06-22-2012

First, I'm impressed someone managed to create a website of substance on such a vapid topic as high end audio..
Last night I saw the seattle symphony orchestra do berlioz damnation of faust. I was late because I stupidly didn't look at the ticket and assumed it was at 8, instead of 7:30. I've never been late to the symphony so I was kind of curious how they handle it. They had a couple tvs playing the performance inside and brought some chairs for the late people to watch. I thought, fine, its nice I can watch for a few minutes until they can find a good point to at least sneak me in to watch from the back. Wrong: I watched tv for over and hour until intermission. It wouldn't have been hard to get people in: the doors don't open right into the lobby and Berlioz certainly isn't lacking in spastic climaxes..anyways, I could have lived with it but the tv watching experience could hardly have been worse. They had us all huddled in the middle of the lobby watching this tv like we're watching a workplace training video, with the bartenders sloshing ice around drowning out the audio which..almost could not have been worse. I located the source of the offensive sound, a metal grill about 20 feet up facing straight down, like an elevator pa, and it sounded like it, concealing some kind of aluminum foil driver gasping for life. Maybe I shouldn't have any sort of expectation, but all they have to do is get the sound from the hall to the lobby: How could it be so bad? You don't need to answer.
I'm sure it was at least somewhat expensive to implement this system. They went through a lot of effort to have everything concealed, with everything wired through walls, floors, etc. Plus they had some expensive looking cables supplying video to the...tv.
Does anyone else's symphony hall torture and humiliate its latecomers? How do they deal with this?

Posted by Romy the Cat on 06-26-2012

I never was late to symphony, or to wherever else for that matter. I do feel that to be late to symphony is like to be late to airplane – you miss it and you are not the part of the trip. For sure no one saved to be late and all that you do just miss the performance…

I do not feel that the people who late shall be admitted to concert hall. This is why orchestras schedule stat consorts with overtures or some kind or light and short pieces – to let the people who late to be sited after the short introductory piece.

The playback in the whole while you are wafting – this is a whole different subject. I am OK with having what looks like Seattle Symphony does – to have some kind or monitor that just indicate if the play is progress. I do not feel that live feed in concert hall lobby has to be at some kind of quality, neither will it ever be.

I think the only better solution for being late is to have right for let say 25% off for the next performance of the SAME program on the next day…

The Cat

Posted by Klausner on 06-26-2012

Of course we do ourselves a favor when we set higher standards for ourselves instead of demanding it of others, ie, not being late as opposed to being late and blaming others for your misery, but I think I have some small justification to whine. Sure, don't be late. If you're late for a job interview, you won't get the job, if you're late for a plane, you miss it. But, they generally just put you in an empty spot on the next flight. There is some sort of small guarantee of satisfaction. The airport isn't responsible for your punctuality, the airport personnel will not move you through the security line faster if you moan about your flight that leaves in 5 minutes, but the airline will generally accommodate your situation because you chose to buy an expensive ticket on their airline instead of the many others and they want your continued patronage.

If I just was late and missed the first half, I probably would just kick myself and forget about it. Berlioz is certainly far from my favorite composer anyways and as far as the music is concerned I don't care that I missed it. If it was a Bach passion I would not have missed it..But, here's what made me uncomfortable. First, I don't think there was a "buffer" piece. I wasn't very late and they were already well into it. They knew that many people would be late because the 520 bridge was up. Literally dozens of people missed half of the performance. The orchestra starts and stops on their own schedule so I don't blame them for not waiting. But...during the third act, this very loud alarm type noise started wailing. Staff were running around trying to figure out what it was. It persisted through the whole act, and Morlot, and then the soloists, walked offstage at the end and would not commence with the final act until it stopped. It took them 30? 45? minutes to figure out what was going on (an old deaf lady's panic button went off, and she could not hear it. somehow no one else sitting around her did anything. (what kind of enjoyment does a deaf women get out of going to the symphony? not my business)). Ok, so I basically got to watch the last act, by which time I didn't really care about the performance.

My point? I was a few minutes late and basically saw 30 minutes of performance. Of course, its not the orchestra's or the conductor's fault. They are just responsible for playing the music. It's not the fault of Benaroya Hall that dozens of people were late, or that some old lady pushed her panic button, and sure, they are not required to have a sophisticated playback for latecomers. But, aren't they responsible, in some way, for our experience? To provide a platform for an orchestra that allows the fullest delivery of their artistic force, and to make sure the patrons are happy and well catered to so we continue providing our patronage? I can choose another airline. I can go home and listen to my playback. If I buy a concert ticket that costs more than the cost of an airline ticket, and want them to at least show me that they care enough about my enjoyment to put me in an empty seat at next performance. I got nothing. After the musicians, where does the cost of my ticket go? To pay the dozens of staff that mill around and do nothing to enhance my experience?

Its fantastic that in the 21st century we can still see live orchestral music performed in every major city. We are privileged to attend performances, and transcendental experience through music is worth any price a high caliber orchestra demands. But, the concert halls should feel privileged to have patrons that attend concerts there, to have people that still want to experience music that most people stopped listening to 100 years ago.
Is this valid or am I just whining?

Posted by Romy the Cat on 06-27-2012

Klausner, of cause what you write is perfectly valid in wider sense but since you posted it at audio forum I kind of trying to detect into what you saying an audio angle. In your first post you complained about the sub-adequate quality of sound the Symphony provide for late people and in your second post you did not even mention that and just expressed that something need to be done for late people. For sure no one argue but in context of my site you knock in slightly wrong door. You see, I am a strong believer in public broadcasting. Her in Boston we have BSO concerts are broadcasted FREE, live over FM, HD and internet. I feel that any performance of meaningful orchestra has to do follow this pattern. So, the “solution” for the late people in my view has not to be served by orchestra or by the concert hall owners. I feel it is a responsibility of orchestra to provide as feed with own sound to PUBLIC. Do you have some kind of café of restaurant near your Symphony Hall? Great! Let them at the day of broadcasts to grab the feed and to serve the public. You and the rest of the patrons with great pleasure will sit in there for 45 minutes, drink wine, perhaps eat some meal, listed the music and wait that break to come into to the hall…

Posted by Klausner on 06-28-2012

Well, I thought there might be an audio solution, but it sort of turned into a musing about how much of the money we spend benefits us, whether the expensive music deliver system (fancy hall with bad acoustics? 400 lb krell space heaters?) enhances the music delivery. I sort of feel like them completely dismissing my misfortune is like buying an expensive amplifier that blows up as soon as you turn it on, and the manufacturer saying "that's too bad". A while ago I watched a friend of mine (with probably more musicality than say, Seiji Ozawa) conduct Beethoven 1 in a coffee shop (!), with a full orchestra. It was a sort of ridiculous and wonderful experience, and it cost nothing. Him and the entire orchestra did it for free, and they did stuff like this all over town.
I like the idea of a classical cafe, and I wish something like that could be implemented here. Some select performances are broadcast by King FM. King FM does do regular FM, HD and internet performances of chamber music, etc. I do think they should broadcast for free, but I was also kind of thinking it would be nice if Benaroya ran their own cafe where they ran audio from the live performances going on in the hall, with some basic degree of sound quality. That way late people can go until they let you in, and people can come in from the street and eat, drink, listen, if they don't want to buy or can't afford tickets.

Posted by Romy the Cat on 06-29-2012

Yes, I understand, Klausner, and the idea of Classical Café is my long standing wet dream:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=5069

I would very much abandon what I do now and run such operation, sometime I feel that I need actually do it….
Talking about better solutions, money spends and 400 lb Krell space heaters… I wonder why high end companies do not sponsor all of it. Let pretend that we in Boston have a wafting room in Symphony Hall, specifically set up for the people who are late and willing to wait for the break to enter the Hall. The room is sponsored by let say “Bose” and they are responsible for all sonic aspect. The Symphony Hall restaurant keep serving food and drinks in there during the concert… Sounds like win-win situation to me…

Posted by Klausner on 06-30-2012

Romy the Cat wrote:
Yes, I understand, Klausner, and the idea of Classical Café is my long standing wet dream

Here's the real wet dream: http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/video/2012/feb/03/tokyo-cat-cafe-video Cats aren't allowed in most buildings in Japan, so people go to get their fix. I can imagine no better therapy for the pressures of life in Japan. If there was a music cafe with cats...one could die happy and fulfilled. There's a cat used bookstore near me, run by a stereotypical frizzy haired cat lady. It has fantastic books, and there are several cats...sometimes she comes to the store in the morning and finds cats abandoned on the steps, because people take advantage of the fact that she's incapable of saying no to a cat in need. Sometimes she holds major sales if one of the cats needs medical care. I can spend hours there; something happens to me when I see a cat and I can become borderline irrational...

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